Authenticate This COACH - **see first post for format**

[Vlad]

IMPORTANT READ-ME

Please post authenticity questions related to COACH in this thread. No PMs please.
For further information, please refer to the first post on page 1 of this thread.

Please follow the following requests:

• Before you submit a request for authentication, please search this thread to make sure that the item has not previously been authenticated by searching the seller ID and/or item number. This is not a thread to ask general questions about COACH, please refer to our main Coach forum for such information.
• Note that authenticators have the right to refuse any requests. This is a free service, but it is imperative that you help our authenticators by using the following format:
• FOR ITEMS LISTED ONLINE:
  Item:
  Listing number:
  Seller and site where listed
  Link:
  Comments:
  
  
• FOR ITEMS NOT LISTED ONLINE:
  Item:
  Where purchased or how obtained
  Comments:

BASIC PICTURES REQUIRED (but more may be requested): If necessary pictures are in the listing, it's not necessary to upload and duplicate them.

• Front of item
• Back of item
• Full clear and legible creed text and serial number
• Made in tags (when available)
• Measurements
• For bags with turnlock closures, show pictures of back of female side of turnlock
• For bags with magnetic snaps, show pictures of the male part of the snap so that the numbers and letters on it can be read
• If applicable, search interior of bag and/or pockets for small white tag with production information and include a picture of that.

Thank you and be safe!

 

[BeenBurned]

I haven't saved many examples of this style to my files. I'm curious about the inside zipper ends. On one picture I have in my files (with the stamp up high) there are zipper stops.
View attachment 3602355
There are also zipper stops in this listing by a tpfers: http://www.ebay.com/itm/COACH-RED-Leather-Vintage-Turnlock-Case-Wallet-7171-Cotton-Ticking-Lined-/201757378567?hash=item2ef9ad4807:gw8AAOSwhqJYW1Ht&nma=true&si=EIVdXynPcuZcOuAC1tuuyH4VdZc%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

In this listing, which has the lower stamp, there are no zipper stops. http://www.ebay.com/itm/112299782231?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
Do you think this was a change Coach made when they moved the logo stamp?

I saved pictures of beautifulthings78-us if you think they'll help. Another thing that the pictures show is a really shoddy job at the end of the piping joint. The chain links appear to be a different shape too.

 

[whateve]

I saved pictures of beautifulthings78-us if you think they'll help. Another thing that the pictures show is a really shoddy job at the end of the piping joint. The chain links appear to be a different shape too.

Yes, that would help. Was there a picture showing the ends of the zipper so you could see if there were stops?

I didn't notice the chain but I did see the shoddy piping.

 

[BeenBurned]

Personally, I think it would be difficult to find a better system of peer review, with different experts weighing in who have nothing to gain. I've been very impressed with the knowledge and resources on display here; every opinion can be backed up with amazingly detailed records. A paid authenticator, on the other hand, could have a bias in favor of whoever is paying for the service.

While I don't doubt that there are some unethical authenticators, I can't say I agree with your statement. Most good authentication companies value their reputations and wouldn't compromise it by being biased on something that's NOT a subjective finding.

casi1001's items were blatant fakes and even without professional documentation, had casi1001 googled her serial numbers, D6j and M4N-4154 would have let her know that her bags were fake!

 

[BeenBurned]

Item: coach vintage turn lock clutch
link: Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/252755602085
Seller: I've not seen this before. Back of the oval piece looks fake on my phone.

Wait for other opinions on this item and seller.

PLEASE be sure to include the information required by POST #1 including seller ID!!

Seller beautifulthings78-us

With these, there aren't a lot of details to confirm authenticity, so the details we do see mean a lot. I think it is fake. Besides the turnlock, the lozenge stamp is indistinct and possibly a little big. In most of these, it usually isn't on the bottom corner but up under the flap.

Other than the back of the turnlock, what else indicates the clutch is fake? I'm not counting the hangtag because that was probably added later. The Coach stamp on the front is iffy but the picture angle isn't the best. The detail of the ticking stripe seems to match another photo in my files of a genuine item, but that's the only turnlock clutch pic I seem to have.

If the turnlock was ever replaced with a non-Coach piece, many of them have indentations on the back. We can't use only the turnlock to prove something's counterfeit.

ETA - I found a few more photos of the 7171 Turnlock Case from 1995-96 in my files, one with the Coach stamp just like on the one being questioned and the other with the stamp under and hidden by the flap. All 3 have the same lining and inside pocket zipper pull.

View attachment 3600966 View attachment 3600967 View attachment 3600969 View attachment 3600971

I haven't saved many examples of this style to my files. I'm curious about the inside zipper ends. On one picture I have in my files (with the stamp up high) there are zipper stops.
View attachment 3602355
There are also zipper stops in this listing by a tpfers: http://www.ebay.com/itm/COACH-RED-Leather-Vintage-Turnlock-Case-Wallet-7171-Cotton-Ticking-Lined-/201757378567?hash=item2ef9ad4807:gw8AAOSwhqJYW1Ht&nma=true&si=EIVdXynPcuZcOuAC1tuuyH4VdZc%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

In this listing, which has the lower stamp, there are no zipper stops. http://www.ebay.com/itm/112299782231?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
Do you think this was a change Coach made when they moved the logo stamp?

I saved pictures of beautifulthings78-us if you think they'll help. Another thing that the pictures show is a really shoddy job at the end of the piping joint. The chain links appear to be a different shape too.

Yes, that would help. Was there a picture showing the ends of the zipper so you could see if there were stops?

I didn't notice the chain but I did see the shoddy piping.

Here' are the pictures.

 

[whateve]

Here' are the pictures.

View attachment 3602416 View attachment 3602417 View attachment 3602418 View attachment 3602419 View attachment 3602420 View attachment 3602421 View attachment 3602422 View attachment 3602423 View attachment 3602424

Thanks! There are zipper stops. That is one thing they got right.

 

[BeenBurned]

Hey, BB, how does your snow situation look so far? Hope you're hunkered down with a good supply of bevvies and munchies. The Weather Channel guys are having a good time, at least, Cantore's even getting his thunder-snow. Wish it was us instead of you.

View attachment 3600508

ETA - And they're forecasting the possibility of three more storms in the coming week. Maybe I'll get my wish after all. View attachment 3600512

LOL! I didn't see that you'd edited and added your comments directed at me. I only found them while looking for something else.

We had an official "blizzard" -- defined as such by less than 1/4 mile visibility and winds over 35 MPH for at least a three-hour period. We have over a foot of snow though it wasn't heavy, wet stuff.

Today we awoke to about 5 more inches and Sunday and Monday are predicted to bring another 8-12" but as long as we don't get 110 inches in February as we did 2 years ago, I'm okay with it!

 

[BeenBurned]

casi1001's items were blatant fakes and even without professional documentation, had casi1001 googled her serial numbers, D6j and M4N-4154 would have let her know that her bags were fake!

If other authenticators would be so kind as to confirm that the bags I referenced above are UNDOUBTEDLY fake, I would appreciate it.

To the buyer, if the seller isn't cooperative in issuing a refund and if you funded your payment with a credit card, you might consider opening a credit card dispute.

And for the record, the law requires that sellers KNOW items are authentic before listing them. If the seller doesn't know if authentic, she's supposed to verify and find out. Ignorance, gifts, buying second hand, etc. are NOT excuses for listing fakes.

 

[Hyacinth]

While I don't doubt that there are some unethical authenticators, I can't say I agree with your statement. Most good authentication companies value their reputations and wouldn't compromise it by being biased on something that's NOT a subjective finding.

casi1001's items were blatant fakes and even without professional documentation, had casi1001 googled her serial numbers, D6j and M4N-4154 would have let her know that her bags were fake!

If other authenticators would be so kind as to confirm that the bags I referenced above are UNDOUBTEDLY fake, I would appreciate it.

To the buyer, if the seller isn't cooperative in issuing a refund and if you funded your payment with a credit card, you might consider opening a credit card dispute.
that
And for the record, the law requires that sellers KNOW items are authentic before listing them. If the seller doesn't know if authentic, she's supposed to verify and find out. Ignorance, gifts, buying second hand, etc. are NOT excuses for listing fakes.

Those numbers are listed in the Daria48 Fake Coach Numbers Guides and have been for years.

D6J- prefixes meaning items made in April 1996 at the "J" plant were used ONLY for clothing items like coats and jackets, never for handbags.
From the first part of Daria48's Guide:
"Coach items with these numbers are ALMOST ALWAYS COUNTERFEIT and need to be looked at by an expert:

-4154, -9941, and -9956 are style numbers that have appeared in dozens if not hundreds of proven fakes, and Coaches with any of those numbers should always be assumed to be counterfeit. I've never seen any genuine bag with these style numbers."
http://www.ebay.com/gds/Fake-Coach-Serial-Numbers-NT-4903-and-more-/10000000002744619/g.html

M4N-4154 are fake TWO ways The M4N- prefix has a plant code N thyat wasn't even used for any US plant after mid-1994, and style number 4154 is a known "blank" and was never used for any handbag:
from Part 2 of Daria's Guide
"M4N-4154 - Update:
Enough evidence has been found to say that the above serial number is ALWAYS FAKE, no exceptions. Not only was the N plant in the US apparently opened only for a very brief time if it was ever opened here at all, but it had apparently closed long before the end of 1994 (the fake date code is for December 1994). No genuine Coach handbag has ever been found with that 4154 style number. And every bag we've found that number in not only has serious production mistakes and date irregularities and are never the same styles, but so far the creed seems to always have "SCRTCHES" misspelled. (9-16-15, thanks, Hyacinth!)"
http://www.ebay.com/gds/Fake-Coach-Serial-Numbers-Part-2-/10000000179041909/g.html

ETA - the listings have been removed but here's a cached copy of the fake Duffle Sac, which if it was real would have had a style number in the serial of -9085, NEVER -4154 which would have only been used IF it had been valid by a bag from the Lightweight line. And the real Duffle Sac was absolutely NOT from the Lightweight line!
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:rMmjV0weHfUJ:www.ebay.com/itm/Coach-Heavy-Leather-British-Tan-Large-Feedbag-Bucket-Duffle-Purse-Bag-/152335862623+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&lr=lang_es|lang_en

The fake Duffle Sac creed also has the word "markings" broken up and hyphenated between two lines of text, which Coach NEVER would have done in a creed from that supposed year of 1994.If the creed photo was better it's even possible that the misspelled word "scrtches" would have been visible, as Daria48 mentioned in her Guide, and like at least one other fake with the same exact creed and serial number that I found on Ebay.

THE CREED AND SERIAL FROM THE CASI1001 FAKE IS FIRST, THE OTHER FAKES FROM COMPLETELY DIFFERENT STYLES (in order - fake 9085 Duffle Sac, unknown briefcase style, and fake 9980 Taft Bag) BUT WITH THE SAME EXACT SERIAL NUMBER AND CREED STAMP INCLUDING THE SAME INCORRECT HYPHATED WORD AND MISSPELLING "SCRTCHES" ARE UNDER IT. All the fake stamps and bags are from the same fakes maker since the stamping details are identical.

View attachment 3602787

 

[Hyacinth]

LOL! I didn't see that you'd edited and added your comments directed at me. I only found them while looking for something else.

We had an official "blizzard" -- defined as such by less than 1/4 mile visibility and winds over 35 MPH for at least a three-hour period. We have over a foot of snow though it wasn't heavy, wet stuff.

Today we awoke to about 5 more inches and Sunday and Monday are predicted to bring another 8-12" but as long as we don't get 110 inches in February as we did 2 years ago, I'm okay with it!

Sorry about sneaking that re-edit in. I always do that, keep tweaking my posts up until the time limit.

 

[Couturexec]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112299782231

Item: Authentic Vintage Coach Leather Kisslock Makeup Coin ~Navy Blue~

Seller: globalbox1

I think the logo is in the wrong place and the the female turn lock looks indented, possibly. I really want it to be be good because I don't have Navy, but.......
Thank you.

 

[whateve]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112299782231

Item: Authentic Vintage Coach Leather Kisslock Makeup Coin ~Navy Blue~

Seller: globalbox1

I think the logo is in the wrong place and the the female turn lock looks indented, possibly. I really want it to be be good because I don't have Navy, but.......
Thank you.

I referenced this one in a post earlier today. I can't say for sure if it is authentic. I'm not sure those are grooves. My concern is that the zipper has no stops.

Do you have several of these? If you do, I'd like to see them for comparison. I'm particularly interested in if the zippers have stops and the location of the logo.

We've seen several with the logo lower down like this, but I'm not sure any of those have been proven to be authentic.

ETA: I'd be interested in other opinions.

 

[Hyacinth]

I referenced this one in a post earlier today. I can't say for sure if it is authentic. I'm not sure those are grooves. My concern is that the zipper has no stops.

Do you have several of these? If you do, I'd like to see them for comparison. I'm particularly interested in if the zippers have stops and the location of the logo.

We've seen several with the logo lower down like this, but I'm not sure any of those have been proven to be authentic.

ETA: I'd be interested in other opinions.

Probably fake. But I'm basing that more on the shape of the case itself, the ones without any problem areas don't have that curved bottom seam. And I don't like to depend too much on things like zipper pull chains, those small hardware bits could have been sourced locally and an item made outside the US, as a lot of small accessories were, could have used slightly different hardware. There have been some pretty obvious 7171 fakes but the ones we've seen before all seem to have fake creed patches.

 

[usMichigann]

I referenced this one in a post earlier today. I can't say for sure if it is authentic. I'm not sure those are grooves. My concern is that the zipper has no stops.

Do you have several of these? If you do, I'd like to see them for comparison. I'm particularly interested in if the zippers have stops and the location of the logo.

We've seen several with the logo lower down like this, but I'm not sure any of those have been proven to be authentic.

ETA: I'd be interested in other opinions.

Hi Whatever, I have two 7171 that I purchased years ago on eBay. Both have the Coach logo at top under the flap & both have zipper stops. The brown one is in like new condition; what is this brown color called? Do they seem OK? Thanks [emoji3]

 

[Hyacinth]

Hi Whatever, I have two 7171 that I purchased years ago on eBay. Both have the Coach logo at top under the flap & both have zipper stops. The brown one is in like new condition; what is this brown color called? Do they seem OK? Thanks [emoji3]View attachment 3603233View attachment 3603234View attachment 3603235View attachment 3603237View attachment 3603238View attachment 3603240

Neither of those have any red flags so I'd say Genuine. The brown shade is probably just British Tan, that color name was used for a whole range of tan shades.

Thanks for posting the photos!

 

[jillhives]

It's authentic and I believe the style is a Chester.

Thanks for taking the time to check this for me!