Ah I see, I thought you were talking about her bag designs, I am not too familiar with the Celine clothing from old collections, but I'll have a look! Thanks!
Any guesses or speculation for Hedi’s 1st collection?
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Ah I see, I thought you were talking about her bag designs, I am not too familiar with the Celine clothing from old collections, but I'll have a look! Thanks!
https://www.thecut.com/2019/03/cath...gNk__XZO3M2mpZRgHvzXpQ-q6ciV6w1VkSKWGhLHvWm2E
Review of the show by Cathy Horyn, who has been banned from Slimane's shows for years (since 2003, if I'm not mistaken). Seems like they've "reconciled".
I also enjoyed Sarah Mower's review, emphasizing that Slimane presented the "Old Celine" everybody was asking for: "There have been all sorts of jokes about “old Celine” since Hedi Slimane took over. But in his third showing for the house, this—and everything that followed—was his turning of the tables. This was old, old Celine—exactly the kind of politely classy merchandise originally sold under the label before LVMH acquired it, long before even Phoebe Philo’s predecessor, Michael Kors, was drafted to make runway shows out of it."
Appointing a new creative director is always complex and problematic at big houses like Celine, especially when the predecessor designer is much admired and appreciated within the industry. It's totally fine that some people hate Celine by Hedi and criticize him with valid arguments, but we definitely can't blame him for not continuing Phoebe's legacy. After all, Philo also gave a different direction to the brand when she was appointed, and created "new codes" of the brand - that's why we fell in love with her exquisite work. Years ago, probably, nobody could imagine Gucci without Tom Ford or Balenciaga without Nicolas Ghesquiere, but here they are! Both of the brands adopted completely different aesthetics under creative direction of Alessandro Michele and Demna Gvasalia, but still they are performing exceptionally well. Anyway, it's still very early to predict that Slimane will repeat this kind of success based on two collections only, but by recent show I think he proved he has a solid potential as a creative director of Celine.
Review of the show by Cathy Horyn, who has been banned from Slimane's shows for years (since 2003, if I'm not mistaken). Seems like they've "reconciled".
I also enjoyed Sarah Mower's review, emphasizing that Slimane presented the "Old Celine" everybody was asking for: "There have been all sorts of jokes about “old Celine” since Hedi Slimane took over. But in his third showing for the house, this—and everything that followed—was his turning of the tables. This was old, old Celine—exactly the kind of politely classy merchandise originally sold under the label before LVMH acquired it, long before even Phoebe Philo’s predecessor, Michael Kors, was drafted to make runway shows out of it."
Appointing a new creative director is always complex and problematic at big houses like Celine, especially when the predecessor designer is much admired and appreciated within the industry. It's totally fine that some people hate Celine by Hedi and criticize him with valid arguments, but we definitely can't blame him for not continuing Phoebe's legacy. After all, Philo also gave a different direction to the brand when she was appointed, and created "new codes" of the brand - that's why we fell in love with her exquisite work. Years ago, probably, nobody could imagine Gucci without Tom Ford or Balenciaga without Nicolas Ghesquiere, but here they are! Both of the brands adopted completely different aesthetics under creative direction of Alessandro Michele and Demna Gvasalia, but still they are performing exceptionally well. Anyway, it's still very early to predict that Slimane will repeat this kind of success based on two collections only, but by recent show I think he proved he has a solid potential as a creative director of Celine.
Honestly I love Hedi's style, he's why I got SL pieces. At the same time I loved Phoebe's Celine (they are different, but I think we need to stop thinking of a woman as only capable of one style). I didn't like his previous Celine collection though. This one...I mean I can definitely see myself buying multiple pieces, but at the same time I too think it's a collection of him basically saying "you want this kind of stuff? fine I will show you I can do it too" kind of collection, and I'm not sure I found that kind of idea to be very...exciting, if that's the right word.
One thing though is I don't think it's so much a response to critics as it's a response to sales...I honestly think Celine suffered in sales due to his dramatic change of direction and he was hired for boosting their sales (at least that's one of the reasons).
One thing though is I don't think it's so much a response to critics as it's a response to sales...I honestly think Celine suffered in sales due to his dramatic change of direction and he was hired for boosting their sales (at least that's one of the reasons).
I think you hit the essence of the problem with Hedi at Celine, it's just a mismatch between the passion and the actual core of the designer vs. the legacy and the trend of the fashion house he was hired into. Sure, this is him showing he can do it too, but it's not what he's truly passionate about and what he's naturally drawn to designing. And I'm sure, with time, it will show; like with any other job, the products are best when passion and talent and drive all mesh together, with him at Celine, it's drive and talent but (I assume) it's hard to develop a passion for designing a style you personally don't "jive with".
Also yeah, it's probably sales not criticism he was responding too, after all isn't he the one who responded to criticism by suggesting that anyone who dislikes his collections were homophobic and misguided?
I do still really like that Gabrielle-esque calfskin bag.
I don’t blame sales for this collection. Hedi stayed true to his creative vision and tripled revenue at YSL. LVMH hired Hedi to be Hedi, knowing that it would ultimately sell and do the same for Celine. They didn’t hire him to dupe Celine Vipiana in 1978.
I think he was forced to respond to the criticism because the spring collection was panned almost universally. I think the only praise I read for it talked about how the pieces were commercially viable outside the context of the show.
The show’s timing was unfortunate to say the least. The show happened the day after Dr. Christine Ford testified about being assaulted by a Supreme Court nominee in the US, which was watched by the entire country. Everyone was horrified after watching that, and this show, created by a man designing fun party dresses and taking over for a woman who designed for other working women, added insult to injury. No one was in the mood for this. It was the worst backlash I’d ever seen for a fashion show.
If the show had been held two years earlier, the criticism would not have been nearly as bad. Christophe Decarnin made similar collections during his tenure at Balmain (2008-11?) which were fawned over.
I think he was forced to respond to the criticism because the spring collection was panned almost universally. I think the only praise I read for it talked about how the pieces were commercially viable outside the context of the show.
The show’s timing was unfortunate to say the least. The show happened the day after Dr. Christine Ford testified about being assaulted by a Supreme Court nominee in the US, which was watched by the entire country. Everyone was horrified after watching that, and this show, created by a man designing fun party dresses and taking over for a woman who designed for other working women, added insult to injury. No one was in the mood for this. It was the worst backlash I’d ever seen for a fashion show.
If the show had been held two years earlier, the criticism would not have been nearly as bad. Christophe Decarnin made similar collections during his tenure at Balmain (2008-11?) which were fawned over.
I don't think anyone was asking for the "old Celine" in the sense that he was expected to copy-paste Phoebe. What people expected is a set of fresh ideas, ideally such that won't alienate completely the existing loyal customer base. What we got instead is a copy-paste of everything we've seen from him before at YSL, which is not just largely targeted at a totally different customer, but also boring and unoriginal (even if he was copying himself), and dare I say somewhat tacky.
What he delivered with this collection is a bit better in terms of addressing the Celine customer Phoebe spoke to, but still very much in boring territory - while entirely wearable, there was nothing new or fresh about this collection. I don't think Phoebe's customers are looking for boring, I think they appreciate simple but fresh and exquisitely designed pieces. So far I haven't seen that from Slimane, but neither have I seen anything that makes me excited about a potentially new direction for the house. Just my $0.02.
*in hushed tone* I'm kinda liking Bottega more and more, their new designer is an English gent ex Celine women's wear. tbh Phoebe's clothes never appealed much on a personal level due to sizing/cut wise but I deeply appreciated her vision and bags which I never got enough of.
overall, I just feel that Slimane's vision is trying to dumb me down as in why wouldn't I want to dress like either a waif or gentlewoman landowner.
I actually think that Hedi is smart in reiterating Celine's original style. People have associated Celine with Phoebe Philo's aesthetic so much so that they think anything that doesn't look like her style is not Celine. I'm sure that some of those people are still saying his latest collection does not look "Celine", which would be silly. By sticking closely with Celine's 70s style, he is essentially doing an aesthetic reset to remind people that this is what Celine looks like, not necessarily Phoebe Philo's look.
That being said, designers often forget that any major designer in a brand's history also contributes to the aesthetic and heritage of the brand. For example, at Dior, designers keep referencing Christian Dior's own designs year after year, although he only designed for 10 years with his own brand until his death. Referencing those 10 years over and over again limits the brand's aesthetic, and ignores that designers like John Galliano and Marc Bohan have contributed many more years than Christian Dior himself to the brand. Maria Grazia Chiuri, their current designer, references all of Dior's past designers, which maximizes the references she can use for her own designs for the brand. Her vision at Dior makes a lot more sense than those of designers who insist on referencing only the founder's designs.
Even Demna Gvasalia can expand his references at Balenciaga if he paid homage to his predecessor Nicolas Ghesquière's aesthetic for the brand, as can Claire Wright Keller at Givenchy if she references Riccardo Tisci's work.
That being said, designers often forget that any major designer in a brand's history also contributes to the aesthetic and heritage of the brand. For example, at Dior, designers keep referencing Christian Dior's own designs year after year, although he only designed for 10 years with his own brand until his death. Referencing those 10 years over and over again limits the brand's aesthetic, and ignores that designers like John Galliano and Marc Bohan have contributed many more years than Christian Dior himself to the brand. Maria Grazia Chiuri, their current designer, references all of Dior's past designers, which maximizes the references she can use for her own designs for the brand. Her vision at Dior makes a lot more sense than those of designers who insist on referencing only the founder's designs.
Even Demna Gvasalia can expand his references at Balenciaga if he paid homage to his predecessor Nicolas Ghesquière's aesthetic for the brand, as can Claire Wright Keller at Givenchy if she references Riccardo Tisci's work.
Clearly, Hedi's trying to tell us something here. 
The clothes for this collection were fine, certainly infinitely more wearable than the previous collection. The leather goods are underwhelming, though.
Gucci just released the archive-inspired 1955 Horsebit bag that also has this old-school tab closure design...
and horsebit hardware... 
I do like the chain shoulder strap on this bag with the modified Triomphe logo but - and I'm trying to say this nicely - the bag looks like a pig's face with a heavy forehead covering its eyes.
The clothes for this collection were fine, certainly infinitely more wearable than the previous collection. The leather goods are underwhelming, though.
Gucci just released the archive-inspired 1955 Horsebit bag that also has this old-school tab closure design... and horsebit hardware... I do like the chain shoulder strap on this bag with the modified Triomphe logo but - and I'm trying to say this nicely - the bag looks like a pig's face with a heavy forehead covering its eyes.
I thought this photo on philophile__'s Instagram was interesting:
I'm no expert on clothing construction, and I have no idea how representative this is of the construction of Hedi's clothes for Celine (I feel like I've heard various people say, for example on Showstudio discussion panels, that Hedi's clothes at Saint Laurent were exquisitely constructed, but I can't recall if those people had expertise in clothes construction and could really comment on the details). But from the little I know about construction, the use of just overlocking/serging on the fabric edges is a much cheaper and easier alternative than the fully bound edges you can see on the trousers from Phoebe's era. I know people have their suspicions that this sort of cheapening of construction is something that is possibly more pervasive across Hedi's Celine collections but I haven't inspected anything closely enough myself so far (and, I mean, he was brought in to make money for LVMH, and obviously one possible way to increase profits is to figure out ways to make items more cheaply that you hope the consumer isn't savvy enough to notice).
Is there anyone here who can comment further on the construction in this image? I feel like a satin band is an interesting choice for the Hedi trousers, since I would have thought the cotton band was better at holding in place a tucked-in shirt, but I guess that could just be a preference more than anything.
Also re: the Celine clothing, do people have any sense of whether the price points are much cheaper than they were during Phoebe's era? I can understand the cheaper construction if the price is accordingly cheaper, but from a quick look at the products on celine.com, I feel like the prices are pretty much the same for basic comparable items like trousers, shirts, knitwear, etc.
I'm no expert on clothing construction, and I have no idea how representative this is of the construction of Hedi's clothes for Celine (I feel like I've heard various people say, for example on Showstudio discussion panels, that Hedi's clothes at Saint Laurent were exquisitely constructed, but I can't recall if those people had expertise in clothes construction and could really comment on the details). But from the little I know about construction, the use of just overlocking/serging on the fabric edges is a much cheaper and easier alternative than the fully bound edges you can see on the trousers from Phoebe's era. I know people have their suspicions that this sort of cheapening of construction is something that is possibly more pervasive across Hedi's Celine collections but I haven't inspected anything closely enough myself so far (and, I mean, he was brought in to make money for LVMH, and obviously one possible way to increase profits is to figure out ways to make items more cheaply that you hope the consumer isn't savvy enough to notice).
Is there anyone here who can comment further on the construction in this image? I feel like a satin band is an interesting choice for the Hedi trousers, since I would have thought the cotton band was better at holding in place a tucked-in shirt, but I guess that could just be a preference more than anything.
Also re: the Celine clothing, do people have any sense of whether the price points are much cheaper than they were during Phoebe's era? I can understand the cheaper construction if the price is accordingly cheaper, but from a quick look at the products on celine.com, I feel like the prices are pretty much the same for basic comparable items like trousers, shirts, knitwear, etc.
