Why Goldman Sachs Believes Coach's (COH) Turnaround Is Alienating Consumers

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I totally agree with you on all your points, especially the notion that Coach seems to think that there's a separation of outlet and retail stores. Many years ago, that may have been true. I remember when I used to have to drive 2 hours to my nearest outlet and now there are easily 3 within a 60 mile radius. If they really want to go the exclusivity route, they have to stop trying to mass produce. Limit the number of floor sets, limit the number of bags that are produced, focus on quality and not quantity. I wish Coach well as I truly do love the brand, but I'm doubtful about their future.


I know exactly what you mean! Around this region, Atlantic City used to be the exception with the outlet and retail store (which were just a few blocks from each other). Now the retail store there closed, and additional outlets have popped up very near retail stores in the state. I remember a manager at one of the stores in NJ was disgusted by all this because he said he couldn't sell what he had in his own store because of it, and when he did, so much of it was returned which affected the store's bottom line very negatively. The % he gave for outlet profits vs retail was a lot higher than listed in these articles too, but I don't know if that was accurate or it has changed, but I was shocked it was that high. There used to be a minimum radius required for outlets to be away from retail stores.

For me, I have mostly only ever liked retail bags, so that's what I always search out no matter whether it's retail or outlet, so I hate it when I see something I just bought for PCE price or full price that is being blown out at the outlet. And yes, they do need to reduce the number of floorsets. I think returns would be a lot less too because the thing is, you buy one bag and a couple of weeks later, another bag comes out you like better, so the first one goes back. It's an ongoing cycle that never ends. Not to mention their return policy was crazy, so I'm glad to see they have changed that at least (although I believe 30 days is enough time to decide if you like an item). I usually buy MK bags during their sales, and every time it's "final sale", which I completely understand.


I'm probably only a 10-yr customer or so, but since I have been buying Coach, PCEs have always been a joke with the selection process. They were rarely (if ever) really "preferred customer" events but rather scams to lure outlet shoppers into the retail stores. I've seen some retail stores be downright nasty about it to some customers and others beg you to use it (when not on the "list"). I've seen people that have spent THOUSANDS of dollars at Coach never get even one PCE! I have hated seeing how over the years the stores never have any consistency. Some stores allow exceptions and others don't. All they do is turn off a lot of their customer base. When I first started shopping Coach, I didn't even know about PCEs at all, but one day we got one in the mail. It had to be from shopping at the outlet because I was always a bargain shopper and never bought retail at that point. I got hit with the bug later and started buying a lot on PCE and even full price, so I guess that trick worked with me to some extent, but usually there were also exclusions early on. I remember a time you couldn't buy Legacy on all PCEs or other collections. And PCEs weren't all the time but just a few times during the year. I also remember when deletes were at least 6 months even getting to the outlets, so if you bought retail, at least you felt like you had your bag for a while before you got shafted paying retail or PCE price. I completed a lot of my older collection via the outlets, but it was way after the deletion in the beginning, so I didn't feel so bad about what I had from the retail stores.

The thing is, that model apparently didn't work for them either. So then they go the other extreme with more and more outlets popping up, quick and quicker delete send offs, and then weekly coupons in the retail stores. It was a slippery slope that became too slippery for them. Honestly, I think they've completely fallen down the hill at this point. Apparently nothing has worked along the way, so how am I supposed to feel as a customer now with their current Hail Mary pass attempt??? Honestly, I have to say I would purchase a lot more from the current collection than just a couple of bags if I had any faith at all that my purchases would be worth anything a few months from now. While I wish them well, and I expressed all of this at the retail store, I really have lost faith in the company. I can only say I hope I'm wrong, and I will watch how everything develops, but I am not going to continue to shoot myself in the foot either. :nogood: There are other brands I enjoy too.
 
I know exactly what you mean! Around this region, Atlantic City used to be the exception with the outlet and retail store (which were just a few blocks from each other). Now the retail store there closed, and additional outlets have popped up very near retail stores in the state. I remember a manager at one of the stores in NJ was disgusted by all this because he said he couldn't sell what he had in his own store because of it, and when he did, so much of it was returned which affected the store's bottom line very negatively. The % he gave for outlet profits vs retail was a lot higher than listed in these articles too, but I don't know if that was accurate or it has changed, but I was shocked it was that high. There used to be a minimum radius required for outlets to be away from retail stores.

For me, I have mostly only ever liked retail bags, so that's what I always search out no matter whether it's retail or outlet, so I hate it when I see something I just bought for PCE price or full price that is being blown out at the outlet. And yes, they do need to reduce the number of floorsets. I think returns would be a lot less too because the thing is, you buy one bag and a couple of weeks later, another bag comes out you like better, so the first one goes back. It's an ongoing cycle that never ends. Not to mention their return policy was crazy, so I'm glad to see they have changed that at least (although I believe 30 days is enough time to decide if you like an item). I usually buy MK bags during their sales, and every time it's "final sale", which I completely understand.


I'm probably only a 10-yr customer or so, but since I have been buying Coach, PCEs have always been a joke with the selection process. They were rarely (if ever) really "preferred customer" events but rather scams to lure outlet shoppers into the retail stores. I've seen some retail stores be downright nasty about it to some customers and others beg you to use it (when not on the "list"). I've seen people that have spent THOUSANDS of dollars at Coach never get even one PCE! I have hated seeing how over the years the stores never have any consistency. Some stores allow exceptions and others don't. All they do is turn off a lot of their customer base. When I first started shopping Coach, I didn't even know about PCEs at all, but one day we got one in the mail. It had to be from shopping at the outlet because I was always a bargain shopper and never bought retail at that point. I got hit with the bug later and started buying a lot on PCE and even full price, so I guess that trick worked with me to some extent, but usually there were also exclusions early on. I remember a time you couldn't buy Legacy on all PCEs or other collections. And PCEs weren't all the time but just a few times during the year. I also remember when deletes were at least 6 months even getting to the outlets, so if you bought retail, at least you felt like you had your bag for a while before you got shafted paying retail or PCE price. I completed a lot of my older collection via the outlets, but it was way after the deletion in the beginning, so I didn't feel so bad about what I had from the retail stores.

The thing is, that model apparently didn't work for them either. So then they go the other extreme with more and more outlets popping up, quick and quicker delete send offs, and then weekly coupons in the retail stores. It was a slippery slope that became too slippery for them. Honestly, I think they've completely fallen down the hill at this point. Apparently nothing has worked along the way, so how am I supposed to feel as a customer now with their current Hail Mary pass attempt??? Honestly, I have to say I would purchase a lot more from the current collection than just a couple of bags if I had any faith at all that my purchases would be worth anything a few months from now. While I wish them well, and I expressed all of this at the retail store, I really have lost faith in the company. I can only say I hope I'm wrong, and I will watch how everything develops, but I am not going to continue to shoot myself in the foot either. :nogood: There are other brands I enjoy too.

Yes, we have alot of Coach outlets in the PA, NJ, DE area.
I am guess around 10 but it could be more...
For me, most are with 1 to 1 and half drive
Less FP stores
 
Yes, we have alot of Coach outlets in the PA, NJ, DE area.
I am guess around 10 but it could be more...
For me, most are with 1 to 1 and half drive
Less FP stores


Yep, I usually get in the car and just drive....hit multiple ones quite easily within a few hours! Treasure hunt is more fun than the retail stores, and they make it so easy! I've almost turned into you with solely outlet shopping (although I don't buy much there either), but I admit I fell off the wagon this weekend! Back in rehab now.... :p
 
Yep, I usually get in the car and just drive....hit multiple ones quite easily within a few hours! Treasure hunt is more fun than the retail stores, and they make it so easy! I've almost turned into you with solely outlet shopping (although I don't buy much there either), but I admit I fell off the wagon this weekend! Back in rehab now.... :p


I will agree if you dont mind driving you can find ALOT of outlets in this area with good FINDS ;)
 
I totally agree with you on all your points, especially the notion that Coach seems to think that there's a separation of outlet and retail stores. Many years ago, that may have been true. I remember when I used to have to drive 2 hours to my nearest outlet and now there are easily 3 within a 60 mile radius. If they really want to go the exclusivity route, they have to stop trying to mass produce. Limit the number of floor sets, limit the number of bags that are produced, focus on quality and not quantity. I wish Coach well as I truly do love the brand, but I'm doubtful about their future.

Well said. :smile1: I agree with all your points. Mass production and quick discounting will keep Coach from ever being considered a luxury brand.
 
The thing is, that model apparently didn't work for them either. So then they go the other extreme with more and more outlets popping up, quick and quicker delete send offs, and then weekly coupons in the retail stores. It was a slippery slope that became too slippery for them. Honestly, I think they've completely fallen down the hill at this point. Apparently nothing has worked along the way, so how am I supposed to feel as a customer now with their current Hail Mary pass attempt??? Honestly, I have to say I would purchase a lot more from the current collection than just a couple of bags if I had any faith at all that my purchases would be worth anything a few months from now. While I wish them well, and I expressed all of this at the retail store, I really have lost faith in the company. I can only say I hope I'm wrong, and I will watch how everything develops, but I am not going to continue to shoot myself in the foot either. :nogood: There are other brands I enjoy too.

I was really hoping that with the Vevers era and collection that all this nonsense you mention in your well written post would stop. But it hasn't, in fact it has gotten worse in my opinion. With Bloomingdales and Macys putting the new collecction on sale the WEEK it was launched (Bloomingdales put it on sale the DAY it was launched), there is absolutely no rhyme or reason to what price a person will pay for a new fp bag. Coach is not setting the prices, the department stores are, and this has to stop. Now.

I bought two bags before the official Vevers launch date and I had to spend time out of my valuable day to go to the fp store and get a price adjustment on both of them to match the prices that Macys and Bloomingdales were selling the same bags for. If I had not proactively sought out the discount, I would not have gotten back a penny. I should not have to be chasing down arbitrary discounts and random prices like this. Coach is truly lost and needs to figure out a strategy and stick to it.
 
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I wondered the same! It makes no sense, and i was even afraid to ask at first for the price match at Coach, but the store said they wanted to remain competitive. Nothing was said about discounts otherwise. I only bought because they price matched. I am over full price completely unless I feel suicidal without the bag, and I will say that's pretty much no bag these days! Still don't get it, though.

Same at my fp coach store. Discount was only given if requested. SA said they were told not to advertise matching Macys sale.
 
I was really hoping that with the Vevers era and collection that all this nonsense you mention in your well written post would stop. But it hasn't, in fact it has gotten worse in my opinion. With Bloomingdales and Macys putting the new collecction on sale the WEEK it was launched (Bloomingdales put it on sale the DAY it was launched), there is absolutely no rhyme or reason to what price a person will pay for a new fp bag. Coach is not setting the prices, the department stores are, and this has to stop. Now.

I bought two bags before the official Vevers launch date and I had to spend time out of my valuable day to go to the fp store and get a price adjustment on both of them to match the prices that Macys and Bloomingdales were selling the same bags for. If I had not proactively sought out the discount, I would not have gotten back a penny. I should not have to be chasing down arbitrary discounts and random prices like this. Coach is truly lost and needs to figure out a strategy and stick to it.


I agree with you! I was completely SHOCKED that the new stuff went on sale so quickly, and honestly, I credit the ladies on the forum here for my knowledge because I was only half paying attention to the sales and didn't even realize it!

I used to say on here in the past that there is nothing consistent about Coach except for their inconsistencies, and it's true today. I think it's kind of obvious that the economy is still such that the dept stores need to offer a lot of sales to push their merchandise out the door, so it baffles me why Coach would announce their current strategy anyway. They don't seem to ever find a happy medium, and they certainly don't know who their core customers are!

TBH, I'm always a little torn myself with the whole sale thing because on the one hand, I WANT to get the deals. I've always been a bargain hunter and in some ways don't "fit" the retail model at all. I buy most of my stuff on sale, and it doesn't really bother me if it's last year's inventory either if I love it. Coach is probably one of the few companies I've ever bought full price from, but at this point I was largely over it. So I already knew that other than possibly ONE bag for fall if I couldn't find what I wanted on sale (or if I had to get it before it sold out), I told myself I was NOT going to pay full price for any of the new bags no matter how much I liked them. I was also going to wait till my b-day before I bought anything Coach and really search for something that suited me best. Actually the last bag I bought from retail Coach, and I think I also got it on some type of sale or PCE price, was the Bleecker studded mini Preston, so I have really stopped shopping the full price stores for the most part. I didn't even buy during the SAS.

So when these dept store sales came up, it did motivate me to jump on the Vevers bag, and I DO love a lot of the new items, but then on the other hand, it does irk me given the whole hoopla to begin with. I actually expected the Coach stores to say no to the price matching only because I was adamantly told that most likely none of the Vevers stuff would even be included for the SAS (IF any of it was left around since it was "flying" off the shelves)...that is was going to be sold full price and that they have already been doing test markets in NYC to determine the stuff would sell at full price before rolling out the new concept, etc, etc... Then I discovered that it's probably currently flying off the shelves because they are using the Nordstrom price matching strategy!

I will say this has worked well for Nordstrom, and once I remarked about how customers abused the return policy and everything else (even price matching since sometimes they don't even care if the brand is really carried at the store or not and just give you the sale). When I said this one of the SAs told me that their profits were "through the roof" and the company "doesn't care" this is happening. From what I can see at my store, their entire strategy is to undercut the other stores, and sometimes they've even had sale signs up to advertise they were price matching another dept store's sale (or the sale price was already entered in the computer). I do love Nordstrom and love the SA that I work with there the best of anyone I've ever met SA-wise, but some aspects do bother me. As far as knowing or not knowing about that, though, I don't think they should advertise another store's sale, but I do think it is good business to honor the discount if asked...and IF that's the company policy to honor it. I don't think some stores should be saying no (and someone here told me once that her Nordstrom store will not price match) and other stores freely doing it or even fudging with it and giving the discount on items they shouldn't be. Same with Coach- I'm sure some stores will be more of a hassle about that than others. They've always been so inconsistent with their policies! And I'm sure they really hate that everything is exposed on the forum here. :p

The thing is I'm all about equality and consistency, so the stores can really irk me. And I NEVER EVER like the type of message that Coach as a whole is currently sending out ATM. It's like they don't want the customer base they have...like those people aren't "good enough". Why don't you just embrace what your company was founded upon?? They have lost sight of a lot IMO, and if all of this doesn't bite them firmly in the butt at some point, I will be VERY surprised!
 
I haven't been on here in ages...primarily since I haven't bought much from Coach in the last year. I have been a long-time Coach customer...had no compunction buying 6 or more bags a year (much to hubby's chagrin) but I have found myself completely and utterly ambivalent about the new product.

Here are my observations/concerns:

The leather on the new bags is thin, cheap, plasticy, and the bags don't hold their shape well when stuffed (especially the Rhyders). This is SUPER disappointing to see on the Stuart Vevers product as those bags are significantly more expensive than the other bags. My $300 legacy stuff is so much nicer!

The lack of PCE's. Coach is clearly trying to go high-end, I get it. In this precarious economy however, I don't think this is the time to go that direction. I think a lot of people have a very set "mental price point" that allows them to comfortably spend a certain amount. PCE's allowed customers to feel comfortable purchasing Coach product. If they don't shop at Coach, they'll sure shop somewhere else that sells bags at a similar price point.

The total and utter failure to differentiate FP from FOS product. Coach instantly devalues their product the second they send it to FOS. IMHO, I think they need to keep FP stuff full price and FOS stuff in the FOS stores (and sell that FP stuff during their semi-annual sales). Going back to point two, if they had PCE's again, then yes, they would take a 25% hit on their bags but that's better than the 40-60% hit they would take on sending the product to FOS.

Last but not least...the 20% increase to the price of Coach product in Canada. I ALWAYS appreciated the fact that Coach was the same price in Canada vs the US. I get that the CA dollar isn't quite as strong as the US right now, but I've seen far greater disparities in the dollar between the two countries with no impact to Canadian prices. To me, it's a cash grab, pure and simple.

So, as much as it pains me to say this, I foresee that my 15+ year relationship with Coach is sadly coming to an end. I haven't found another brand that could replace Coach but for the first time in a LONG time, I'm seriously looking.

Thanks for letting me have my wee little rant!!! <3


You said it sista!


I got caught up in the excitement last week as I began to notice the new Rhyder bags arriving. The Bay received one single colorblock Workwear Rhyder 33 on Wed, Sept 17 along with 3 boxes more to unload. I bought it 25% off on Thurs, Sept 18 due to VIP FF early promo.


Coach Pacific Centre did not receive any but Coach on Burrard Street got 2 or 3 so not a lot of stock but I got 25% already - how can the boutiques compete?


Regardless, the bag is marked up in Canada now with duty at 10% and I thought I could do it but I changed my mind - why? The quality of the leather etc on the Workwear Rhyder 33 is better than the "regular" Rhyder bags imo but even with 25% off, I did not feel happy about the price of this bag! Long story short, I returned her already. Someone else can buy her with 20% discount during FF Weekend promo.


As I got caught up in all the new "exclusive" hype, I ordered the red nubuck Rhyder 33 because it's destined to sell out (literally as stock was dropping at JAX). Long story shorter, I tried cancelling this order too but I can't. I have to wait for it to arrive, then I can have a full refund. Once it arrives, I will see about overall quality but still...this will cost me 800 cad and I no matter how gorgeous it may be irl I honestly don't want to drop 800 on it - I just got caught up in the hype and how "exclusive" the nubuck Rhyder 33 is as it was only shipping to flagship Coach stores in the US and none shipped to Canada.


Sorry to drone on like this but...everything you said is true! They can't just jack up their prices but lower overall quality of materials at the same time. You will not fool anybody into calling you a LUXURY handbag! I honestly still like several new Coach bags but I'm not willing to pay their new prices.
 
More evidence that things are not going well:

A Losing Season for Coach?
By Grace L. Williams

Luxury handbag and accessories giant Coach (COH) could be headed straight for the discount outlet…or it could get a nice boost from the world of private equity.

In a report released on Sept. 15 by Canaccord Genuity, analyst Laura Champine didn’t mince words about the headwinds Coach faces:

The company is on track to cede more market share in fiscal 2015, and its grip on the top position is as loose as ever in our view.

Things got substantially worse for Coach’s North American business in fiscal 2014. It generated what we believe is the company’s worst same-store sales performance on record, a decline of 15% on top of flat. Total North American sales declined 11%, versus the combined handbag and leather goods market’s growth of around 9%. Overall, Coach indicated its share of the combined premium North American men’s and women’s market was 23%, down sharply from the 30% position it reported in fiscal 2013.

Despite that, Champine also notes that Coach might be down but it’s probably not out. “We are sticking with a cautious Hold rating, driven by Coach’s attractive dividend yield and the potential for some private-equity funds to be put to use here,” she writes.

http://blogs.barrons.com/stockstowatchtoday/2014/09/18/a-losing-season-for-coach/tab/print/
 
More evidence that things are not going well:

A Losing Season for Coach?
By Grace L. Williams

Luxury handbag and accessories giant Coach (COH) could be headed straight for the discount outlet…or it could get a nice boost from the world of private equity.

In a report released on Sept. 15 by Canaccord Genuity, analyst Laura Champine didn’t mince words about the headwinds Coach faces:

The company is on track to cede more market share in fiscal 2015, and its grip on the top position is as loose as ever in our view.

Things got substantially worse for Coach’s North American business in fiscal 2014. It generated what we believe is the company’s worst same-store sales performance on record, a decline of 15% on top of flat. Total North American sales declined 11%, versus the combined handbag and leather goods market’s growth of around 9%. Overall, Coach indicated its share of the combined premium North American men’s and women’s market was 23%, down sharply from the 30% position it reported in fiscal 2013.

Despite that, Champine also notes that Coach might be down but it’s probably not out. “We are sticking with a cautious Hold rating, driven by Coach’s attractive dividend yield and the potential for some private-equity funds to be put to use here,” she writes.

http://blogs.barrons.com/stockstowatchtoday/2014/09/18/a-losing-season-for-coach/tab/print/
Private equity, huh?

Well, I guess it'll be so convenient when I can buy Coach bags at places like Target, Walmart or Kohl's.
 
More evidence that things are not going well:



A Losing Season for Coach?

By Grace L. Williams



Luxury handbag and accessories giant Coach (COH) could be headed straight for the discount outlet…or it could get a nice boost from the world of private equity.



In a report released on Sept. 15 by Canaccord Genuity, analyst Laura Champine didn’t mince words about the headwinds Coach faces:



The company is on track to cede more market share in fiscal 2015, and its grip on the top position is as loose as ever in our view.



Things got substantially worse for Coach’s North American business in fiscal 2014. It generated what we believe is the company’s worst same-store sales performance on record, a decline of 15% on top of flat. Total North American sales declined 11%, versus the combined handbag and leather goods market’s growth of around 9%. Overall, Coach indicated its share of the combined premium North American men’s and women’s market was 23%, down sharply from the 30% position it reported in fiscal 2013.



Despite that, Champine also notes that Coach might be down but it’s probably not out. “We are sticking with a cautious Hold rating, driven by Coach’s attractive dividend yield and the potential for some private-equity funds to be put to use here,” she writes.



http://blogs.barrons.com/stockstowatchtoday/2014/09/18/a-losing-season-for-coach/tab/print/


I think it is too early to count them out. Interesting, I was ready to count them out, but I am impressed with the new design direction.

I have had several friends that were Coachies ten or twelve years ago that are flipping out about the Vever's fall line.

One friend who literally couldn't stand Coach commented last night that she almost cried when she received an email from Coach and that the bags were "GORGEOUS GORGEOUS". And then exclaimed that Coach is "Back!!!" She thinks SV is doing an amazing job of revamping the company.

I would have bet $1k that this person would never utter these words. The response from non-Coachies or former Coachies has been consistently surprising to me.

We all knew a turnaround wouldn't happen over night and that financially they would take an immediate hit as they try to turn the brand around.

Private equity seems like a logical way to find this type of transition. If some of the reactions to the new direction are indicative of a larger, broader demographic, than perhaps they are doing something right. It will take a good 18-24 months of comparative earnings to really know how successful their rebranding efforts have been.

Add to that the fact that MK is tanking because everyone is carrying them and they saturated the market (did they learn nothing from Coach's market saturation mistakes?" And Coach has an opportunity to grab that market share if they do things right.

Just MHO, but I see some interesting things going on. I am looking forward to see how this story plays out! If it works, this will be the stuff of business school case studies throughout the world!!
 
I think it is too early to count them out. Interesting, I was ready to count them out, but I am impressed with the new design direction.

I have had several friends that were Coachies ten or twelve years ago that are flipping out about the Vever's fall line.

One friend who literally couldn't stand Coach commented last night that she almost cried when she received an email from Coach and that the bags were "GORGEOUS GORGEOUS". And then exclaimed that Coach is "Back!!!" She thinks SV is doing an amazing job of revamping the company.

I would have bet $1k that this person would never utter these words. The response from non-Coachies or former Coachies has been consistently surprising to me.

We all knew a turnaround wouldn't happen over night and that financially they would take an immediate hit as they try to turn the brand around.

Private equity seems like a logical way to find this type of transition. If some of the reactions to the new direction are indicative of a larger, broader demographic, than perhaps they are doing something right. It will take a good 18-24 months of comparative earnings to really know how successful their rebranding efforts have been.

Add to that the fact that MK is tanking because everyone is carrying them and they saturated the market (did they learn nothing from Coach's market saturation mistakes?" And Coach has an opportunity to grab that market share if they do things right.

Just MHO, but I see some interesting things going on. I am looking forward to see how this story plays out! If it works, this will be the stuff of business school case studies throughout the world!!

I agree with your post for the most part and have not counted coach out yet.

But....

If they do not control the pricing strategy and the flow of merchandise to the outlets, they will not be able to revamp the brand. If macys and Bon-ton and Lord and Taylor etc put the merchandise on sale and have constant coupons, then Coach will not be able to change the market perception that they are a mid-market discount brand not a luxury brand.

If they make the majority of their styles copy-cat styles of premier styles, that too is a risk because it will be harder to differentiate their copy-cat style from Michael Kors copy-cat style from Kate Spade's copy cat style, etc

So far Coach has a unique market niche and a unique style at an affordable price point. I would like to see how this continues moving forward. :cool:
 
I agree with your post for the most part and have not counted coach out yet.



But....



If they do not control the pricing strategy and the flow of merchandise to the outlets, they will not be able to revamp the brand. If macys and Bon-ton and Lord and Taylor etc put the merchandise on sale and have constant coupons, then Coach will not be able to change the market perception that they are a mid-market discount brand not a luxury brand.



If they make the majority of their styles copy-cat styles of premier styles, that too is a risk because it will be harder to differentiate their copy-cat style from Michael Kors copy-cat style from Kate Spade's copy cat style, etc



So far Coach has a unique market niche and a unique style at an affordable price point. I would like to see how this continues moving forward. :cool:


Oh heck yes. Pricing is a hot mess. But I was thinking that maybe they are moving towards their goal with a multi-tiered strategy. Maybe they are keeping bags in dept stores with limited discounts in order to get people excited about the new designs. Once they draw back a bigger customer base, they begin a process of slowly limiting production and discounts.

In some respects, a tiered approach makes perfect sense rather than trying to change everything overnight. The pricing is definitely an issue and although there are department store final sales, by in large many of the newer styles are not hitting the outlets.

Most department stores have sales and many include more exclusive designers so that move is not terribly inconsistent with other luxury brands. But by and large, the Boroughs have stayed out of most of the outlets. A few colors hit a few outlets, but not even close to hitting in terms of delete quantities for other bags. I saw the Boarskin orange and white and a handful of others, but not in the quantities people would expect or even that quickly. This may be the beginning of the differentiation.

It wouldn't be bad for the occasional dept store sale and the SAS because it definitely allows down the delete-athon 3 month cycle.


Who knows what they are actually doing, but if they are moving in stages, it would seem like a smart and thoughtful approach from where I am sitting.
 
Oh heck yes. Pricing is a hot mess. But I was thinking that maybe they are moving towards their goal with a multi-tiered strategy. Maybe they are keeping bags in dept stores with limited discounts in order to get people excited about the new designs. Once they draw back a bigger customer base, they begin a process of slowly limiting production and discounts.

In some respects, a tiered approach makes perfect sense rather than trying to change everything overnight. The pricing is definitely an issue and although there are department store final sales, by in large many of the newer styles are not hitting the outlets.

Most department stores have sales and many include more exclusive designers so that move is not terribly inconsistent with other luxury brands. But by and large, the Boroughs have stayed out of most of the outlets. A few colors hit a few outlets, but not even close to hitting in terms of delete quantities for other bags. I saw the Boarskin orange and white and a handful of others, but not in the quantities people would expect or even that quickly. This may be the beginning of the differentiation.

It wouldn't be bad for the occasional dept store sale and the SAS because it definitely allows down the delete-athon 3 month cycle.


Who knows what they are actually doing, but if they are moving in stages, it would seem like a smart and thoughtful approach from where I am sitting.

Unfortunately I think the rhyders will hit the outlets and will go on clearance at the department stores. There are too many stores selling them and there are too many colors and styles in my opinion.

I hope the Dakotahs become a classic style for Coach and that they don't delete them like they cancelled the Phoebe. The Dakotah is so versatile and it is uniquely Coach. No one has anything like it. It pays homage to the styles of Coach's past (like the stewardess bag) but also looks really relevant now. I love it. :smile1::cool:

Some of the other stuff I cannot tell if it is the last of the Reed Krakoff designs or it is Vevers (the taxi totes and some of the more basic bags etc) Is everything out now Vevers? Not sure....

In any case, I think certain styles should not be available at department stores or outlets. This would insure that they would not get discounted as heavily.

Time will tell....
 
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