i think the outlets are coach's way of combating the counterfeit market. Allow people access to lower quality bags but still has the label. But yeah coach should just accept reality and move on from there. And try to conquer the middle class market. Take back market share from micheal kors. There are more middle class folks than there are rich folks. They are not upscale luxury but rather entry level. Shouldn't coach be proud that everyone can afford them now? The recession isn't over yet. For the price coach is charging, I can get the same thing from roots canada and that is made in canada not china.
Why Goldman Sachs Believes Coach's (COH) Turnaround Is Alienating Consumers
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But, I like Coach's new fall line. I didn't pay much attention to their bags before, thinking the previous were mostly too elegant for me. This new collection though, is just so kickass and trendy. But I think the same that Coach upping their prices will not help to keep fans and attract customers.
My comment to hubby. ----- "Alienating customers, eh? So who wants to tell these experts about the great feather fob debacle?"
And just for the record, I love Coach. I've always been a fan of Coach. But even if some of us remain as loyal as ever, they still seem to be shooting themselves in the foot. ... Both feet. ... Over and over.
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I'm killing myself laughing over your comment: "...So who wants to tell these experts about the great feather fob debacle..."
I have visions of old suits asking someone to explain this one to them! Hey and here I am wondering if I should buy a very $ Rhyder 33 and one main deciding factor is that the feather fob is included
and sadly, I bet this bag will make it to sale. I am really shocked that so many lovely Coach bags make it to sale locally - and we do not have the big Coach Outlet stores nearby (I'm in Canada).
You are so right here. I thought I was done with the brand but got really excited when the Rhyder bags started to arrive. The quality and materials aren't awful (although some TPF members would say they are) but the problem is they have jacked up prices at the same time! Looks-wise I'm loving a lot of SV designs but having seen them online photographed beautifully raises expectations but when you touch & feel the bags, examine the lining, stitching...overall quality...hmmm? Not horrible but for the price and brand name? Oh dear - I want Coach to succeed, I like the brand but...
I haven't been on here in ages...primarily since I haven't bought much from Coach in the last year. I have been a long-time Coach customer...had no compunction buying 6 or more bags a year (much to hubby's chagrin) but I have found myself completely and utterly ambivalent about the new product.
Here are my observations/concerns:
The leather on the new bags is thin, cheap, plasticy, and the bags don't hold their shape well when stuffed (especially the Rhyders). This is SUPER disappointing to see on the Stuart Vevers product as those bags are significantly more expensive than the other bags. My $300 legacy stuff is so much nicer!
The lack of PCE's. Coach is clearly trying to go high-end, I get it. In this precarious economy however, I don't think this is the time to go that direction. I think a lot of people have a very set "mental price point" that allows them to comfortably spend a certain amount. PCE's allowed customers to feel comfortable purchasing Coach product. If they don't shop at Coach, they'll sure shop somewhere else that sells bags at a similar price point.
The total and utter failure to differentiate FP from FOS product. Coach instantly devalues their product the second they send it to FOS. IMHO, I think they need to keep FP stuff full price and FOS stuff in the FOS stores (and sell that FP stuff during their semi-annual sales). Going back to point two, if they had PCE's again, then yes, they would take a 25% hit on their bags but that's better than the 40-60% hit they would take on sending the product to FOS.
Last but not least...the 20% increase to the price of Coach product in Canada. I ALWAYS appreciated the fact that Coach was the same price in Canada vs the US. I get that the CA dollar isn't quite as strong as the US right now, but I've seen far greater disparities in the dollar between the two countries with no impact to Canadian prices. To me, it's a cash grab, pure and simple.
So, as much as it pains me to say this, I foresee that my 15+ year relationship with Coach is sadly coming to an end. I haven't found another brand that could replace Coach but for the first time in a LONG time, I'm seriously looking.
Thanks for letting me have my wee little rant!!!
Here are my observations/concerns:
The leather on the new bags is thin, cheap, plasticy, and the bags don't hold their shape well when stuffed (especially the Rhyders). This is SUPER disappointing to see on the Stuart Vevers product as those bags are significantly more expensive than the other bags. My $300 legacy stuff is so much nicer!
The lack of PCE's. Coach is clearly trying to go high-end, I get it. In this precarious economy however, I don't think this is the time to go that direction. I think a lot of people have a very set "mental price point" that allows them to comfortably spend a certain amount. PCE's allowed customers to feel comfortable purchasing Coach product. If they don't shop at Coach, they'll sure shop somewhere else that sells bags at a similar price point.
The total and utter failure to differentiate FP from FOS product. Coach instantly devalues their product the second they send it to FOS. IMHO, I think they need to keep FP stuff full price and FOS stuff in the FOS stores (and sell that FP stuff during their semi-annual sales). Going back to point two, if they had PCE's again, then yes, they would take a 25% hit on their bags but that's better than the 40-60% hit they would take on sending the product to FOS.
Last but not least...the 20% increase to the price of Coach product in Canada. I ALWAYS appreciated the fact that Coach was the same price in Canada vs the US. I get that the CA dollar isn't quite as strong as the US right now, but I've seen far greater disparities in the dollar between the two countries with no impact to Canadian prices. To me, it's a cash grab, pure and simple.
So, as much as it pains me to say this, I foresee that my 15+ year relationship with Coach is sadly coming to an end. I haven't found another brand that could replace Coach but for the first time in a LONG time, I'm seriously looking.
Thanks for letting me have my wee little rant!!!
I haven't been on here in ages...primarily since I haven't bought much from Coach in the last year. I have been a long-time Coach customer...had no compunction buying 6 or more bags a year (much to hubby's chagrin) but I have found myself completely and utterly ambivalent about the new product.
Here are my observations/concerns:
The leather on the new bags is thin, cheap, plasticy, and the bags don't hold their shape well when stuffed (especially the Rhyders). This is SUPER disappointing to see on the Stuart Vevers product as those bags are significantly more expensive than the other bags. My $300 legacy stuff is so much nicer!
The lack of PCE's. Coach is clearly trying to go high-end, I get it. In this precarious economy however, I don't think this is the time to go that direction. I think a lot of people have a very set "mental price point" that allows them to comfortably spend a certain amount. PCE's allowed customers to feel comfortable purchasing Coach product. If they don't shop at Coach, they'll sure shop somewhere else that sells bags at a similar price point.
The total and utter failure to differentiate FP from FOS product. Coach instantly devalues their product the second they send it to FOS. IMHO, I think they need to keep FP stuff full price and FOS stuff in the FOS stores (and sell that FP stuff during their semi-annual sales). Going back to point two, if they had PCE's again, then yes, they would take a 25% hit on their bags but that's better than the 40-60% hit they would take on sending the product to FOS.
Last but not least...the 20% increase to the price of Coach product in Canada. I ALWAYS appreciated the fact that Coach was the same price in Canada vs the US. I get that the CA dollar isn't quite as strong as the US right now, but I've seen far greater disparities in the dollar between the two countries with no impact to Canadian prices. To me, it's a cash grab, pure and simple.
So, as much as it pains me to say this, I foresee that my 15+ year relationship with Coach is sadly coming to an end. I haven't found another brand that could replace Coach but for the first time in a LONG time, I'm seriously looking.
Thanks for letting me have my wee little rant!!!
Also, with the department stores already discounting the new bags to pce prices and with coach match the prices, it makes no sense for coach to not have pce. They need a coherent plan.
I haven't been on here in ages...primarily since I haven't bought much from Coach in the last year. I have been a long-time Coach customer...had no compunction buying 6 or more bags a year (much to hubby's chagrin) but I have found myself completely and utterly ambivalent about the new product.
Here are my observations/concerns:
The leather on the new bags is thin, cheap, plasticy, and the bags don't hold their shape well when stuffed (especially the Rhyders). This is SUPER disappointing to see on the Stuart Vevers product as those bags are significantly more expensive than the other bags. My $300 legacy stuff is so much nicer!
The lack of PCE's. Coach is clearly trying to go high-end, I get it. In this precarious economy however, I don't think this is the time to go that direction. I think a lot of people have a very set "mental price point" that allows them to comfortably spend a certain amount. PCE's allowed customers to feel comfortable purchasing Coach product. If they don't shop at Coach, they'll sure shop somewhere else that sells bags at a similar price point.
The total and utter failure to differentiate FP from FOS product. Coach instantly devalues their product the second they send it to FOS. IMHO, I think they need to keep FP stuff full price and FOS stuff in the FOS stores (and sell that FP stuff during their semi-annual sales). Going back to point two, if they had PCE's again, then yes, they would take a 25% hit on their bags but that's better than the 40-60% hit they would take on sending the product to FOS.
Last but not least...the 20% increase to the price of Coach product in Canada. I ALWAYS appreciated the fact that Coach was the same price in Canada vs the US. I get that the CA dollar isn't quite as strong as the US right now, but I've seen far greater disparities in the dollar between the two countries with no impact to Canadian prices. To me, it's a cash grab, pure and simple.
So, as much as it pains me to say this, I foresee that my 15+ year relationship with Coach is sadly coming to an end. I haven't found another brand that could replace Coach but for the first time in a LONG time, I'm seriously looking.
Thanks for letting me have my wee little rant!!!
I'm with you, and I did mostly move on to other brands over the last couple of years. I don't like the lower end Rhyders, but the more expensive ones and Dakotas are actually very nice. I was blown away by the fringe Dakotah except for the feather fob part, and I compared that to the Proenza Schouler fringe at Nordstrom, which is not even as remotely as nice, but costs way more. I too loved Legacy, and the thing is, even back in 2007 and with all the Bleecker St. LEs, they couldn't even sell most of those bags at full price. I was shafted so many times over the years by buying on PCE price or full price and then seeing a lot of those bags being sold for a third or less of retail at the outlets. I bought the bags because I loved them, but I slowly got over Coach after all that and knocking off high end retail bags at the outlet, etc. It just seems that they have always tried extremes and when that didn't work, they would revert back or try something else a month later. To that end, I have no confidence in this new concept, which seems to me to be more of a Hail Mary pass. I did buy one bag today, and I bought it because I loved it, and because they price matched. I guess that is something that works well for Nordstrom, so maybe for Coach too, but I don't see them attracting the clientele they really want. Those people are not going to choose Coach over a luxury brand in most cases. Only if that person is not buying for the name and really loves the bag.
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I was rather surprised that with all of the press and hoopla surrounding the elimination of the PCEs and the talk about FP bags not going to the outlets that a week and a half after the Vevers Collection was revealed the department stores had them on sale. I am glad because I got a great deal, but I had thought I read department stores weren't going to be allowed to have sales that included Coach.
It just makes no sense whatsoever. How do you elevate your brand and implement a new pricing structure when your product is a sale item less than two weeks after it is released???
I must be missing something that the Coach execs are getting. Right? :-/
I wondered the same! It makes no sense, and i was even afraid to ask at first for the price match at Coach, but the store said they wanted to remain competitive. Nothing was said about discounts otherwise. I only bought because they price matched. I am over full price completely unless I feel suicidal without the bag, and I will say that's pretty much no bag these days! Still don't get it, though.
I have to wonder if Coach tried to get department stores to exclude the brand from sales and the stores balked. Macys etc do a ton of business selling purses, and giving customers discount upon discount is their bread and butter. Look at what happened to JCPenney when they tried to can discounts and coupons.
Coach will never, ever get the high-end brand prestige they seem to want if they continue to sell in stores that insist on discounting their items. It's too confusing to the consumer. They won't withdraw the line from department stores, so the strategy was doomed from the start.
It wasn't even a week and a half. Bloomingdales had the bags on sale the DAY they were released. (they had a sale on everything based on how much you bought)
With the bags at mid-market department stores that discount all the time, Coach will not be able to elevate their brand.
Macys and stores like Macys do not carry Balenciaga, Chanel, LV, or even Gucci and other premier brands and Coach needs to get out of these stores if they want to compete with these brands in my opinion.
Coach has definitely trained their customers to shop sales in both retail and outlets, and they've always seemed to think that there was a separation of outlet and retail. I've heard this for years...they thought they could send their deletes to the outlets with massive discounts and retail shoppers not know any better, but the problem is customers DO know better!
Yes, they were supposed to start operating their own store within the dept store, much like LV at NM, etc. I don't know if things changed or they just haven't started it yet, but I was told they were going to throttle dept stores on all sales and that eventually the employees working in the Coach section would be actual Coach employees (this was at Macys- don't know about other stores). I also noticed that my most local Nordstrom quit carrying Coach period, and they don't have a lot on their website either. My Nordies SA didn't know why, but I had been told in the past that they didn't sell much unless they were price matching PCEs, etc.
I have to say in my immediate area at least, if I were a dept store, and I was forced to keep stock that didn't sell, I wouldn't take Coach because most bags do not sell at full price. I never see my L&T sell anything much unless it is on sale, and then a lot of it sits there for weeks. Supposedly that is one of the better stores for selling Coach too (or so I was told by one of their employees). Macys seems a little better, but I still see some of the same stuff sitting there for weeks.
I think this is another thing that finally turned me off, and I just lost interest in Coach. Too much, always there, stores can't sell it....etc! I am literally back at Coach and back in this forum because of the Vevers' collection, so let's see how it goes!
Coach has definitely trained their customers to shop sales in both retail and outlets, and they've always seemed to think that there was a separation of outlet and retail. I've heard this for years...they thought they could send their deletes to the outlets with massive discounts and retail shoppers not know any better, but the problem is customers DO know better!
Yes, they were supposed to start operating their own store within the dept store, much like LV at NM, etc. I don't know if things changed or they just haven't started it yet, but I was told they were going to throttle dept stores on all sales and that eventually the employees working in the Coach section would be actual Coach employees (this was at Macys- don't know about other stores). I also noticed that my most local Nordstrom quit carrying Coach period, and they don't have a lot on their website either. My Nordies SA didn't know why, but I had been told in the past that they didn't sell much unless they were price matching PCEs, etc.
I have to say in my immediate area at least, if I were a dept store, and I was forced to keep stock that didn't sell, I wouldn't take Coach because most bags do not sell at full price. I never see my L&T sell anything much unless it is on sale, and then a lot of it sits there for weeks. Supposedly that is one of the better stores for selling Coach too (or so I was told by one of their employees). Macys seems a little better, but I still see some of the same stuff sitting there for weeks.
I think this is another thing that finally turned me off, and I just lost interest in Coach. Too much, always there, stores can't sell it....etc! I am literally back at Coach and back in this forum because of the Vevers' collection, so let's see how it goes!
I totally agree with you on all your points, especially the notion that Coach seems to think that there's a separation of outlet and retail stores. Many years ago, that may have been true. I remember when I used to have to drive 2 hours to my nearest outlet and now there are easily 3 within a 60 mile radius. If they really want to go the exclusivity route, they have to stop trying to mass produce. Limit the number of floor sets, limit the number of bags that are produced, focus on quality and not quantity. I wish Coach well as I truly do love the brand, but I'm doubtful about their future.