When is Enough Enough?

[circoit]

You make a good point. I purchased several RM's and unfortunately, they didn't work out for me. Perhaps Lexie should re-consider her future investments.

I must say that with respect to the above, I handled my complaints privately. Although they were NEVER resolved, I'm mostly empathizing with people's negative experiences b/c I've been there.

And I think rather than contacting people like Cory, or Cody, or RM Maven, etc.....I would contact Rebecca directly. That way the message goes directly to the Designer.

Circoit, I must respectfully disagree about an exceptional product. I find the handles on the RM MAB's & MAM's totally unacceptable. The flimsy filling doesn't cut it and if you sift through the posts, many have complained and the problem continues as stated by Hitchcock Blonde's review of the new Fall 08 bags. The handles remain as flimsy as they were. So, unfortunately, the product is not exceptional.

And Circoit, could you clarify your point regarding selling to wholesalers or retailers?? Are they instead to take the beating?? And where does that leave all the latest custom orders???? Money taken up front and product delivered months later.....and your CC being charged interest. Does that seem right???

Hmmmm......if I purchase a BMW and I have problem with it, I contact the dealership, but if the dealership can't resolve it, then I have to contact BMW.

*IF YOU PUT YOUR NAME ON A PRODUCT, THEN YOU HAVE TO BE PREPARED TO STAND BEHIND IT*

I have several of the new fall bags and cannot find a thing wrong with them. I don't find the handles to be flimsy - they seem very sturdy, the leather is superb quality, the hardware is custom - substantial and good quality. I love the designs - she has a very good design eye.

I'm not sure what bags you are comparing hers to, but compared to other brands bags in this price range, the quality is right on par with the best of them (and beats more than a few others I've experienced).

As for the retailers vs. wholesalers. If a retailer gets a high percentage of returns of RM bags, they will convey this message to RM by either not reordering her bags or telling her of the problems. It sounds like Rebecca deals more directly with the stores and boutiques, so if they have a problem, it is more likely to reach Rebecca herself.

In my experience, custom orders do require money down - sometimes its only half, but sometimes its the whole amount. Its not altogether unexpected for a custom made bag to take months to be delivered. And with all of the demands for increased QC, this can cause delays in production as well. (RM isn't the only company who experiences delays - My BE weekenders are a month overdue. However, I am just patiently waiting it out - these things happen).

As for the CC being charged interest, you can't really blame RM for that. Pay the cc off. If you can't, you probably shouldn't have ordered the bag in the first place. Having the wait a few months is part of the price we have to pay for getting a custom product.

From what I've gathered, most of the complaints are related to damaged goods being received. However, it isn't just RM who is sending these bags out. Retailers send out bags with scuffs, marks, imperfections - many of which were most likely acquired after the store received the bags - RM cannot be blamed for those bags (though they should definitely be called out when they do send out defective bags).

RM came under fire for the mismatched panels on the Nikkis - and deservedly so. Same with the handles. These are issues she is trying to repair - I can see that is so because I haven't experienced any of these issues in her latest collection.

 

[Desi]

I haven't read everything in here, and i don't want to get involved, but i will say- i do love RM bags. I think they are of high quality, and out of 24 bags that have been in my collection, i've never had a quality issue. They've mainly been CS issues for a couple of em. That said- when I am no longer BROKE, i will continue to buy RM's from retailers instead of the site directly, unless its a sample sale ofcourse. I love the leathers, prices are reasonable, and of course the best part is, they're made in USA.

 

[Lexie2000]

I am not personally attacking Rebecca. How could I? I don't know her. I am making comments concerning a "Designer of Bags" just like any other designer. And every Designer will gain a reputation of one sort or another. No one in here besides Megs has a "personal" relationship with RM (as far as I know) so how can anyone personally attack her?

Like GirlsGotSoul said...Rebecca didn't come into this forum to be your buddy and friend. She came to sell bags and promote and she did just that. A move like that can backfire on a savvy group of handbag buyers who want what they pay for.

On the 2 occassions I talked to RM people I was treated rudely and like a no one...
Did they not think that there were alot of no ones who would respond to their promotion in the TPF, and this is how they get treated? That's the last time I dealt with RM and then dealt with Ebay or online sites. All of my bags are in good shape. Because you can hand pick them on Ebay.

I will buy the bags I choose to.... If I can get them from an outside source.

Bag designers get critiqued by their critics all the time. There is no attacking going on, which would imply it's personal. It's an opinion of a Customer. A designer opens themselves up to public condemnation or praise by their interaction with the consumer.

I feel bad for all of these people with horrid experiences. And I feel badly that while RM or Maven could post to this group to promote they never have replied to any problem thread and promise help.

That was my Question. When is enough enough? I still love the end product if it turns out well. I AM being contradictory. I am wondering myself how much consideration we should give a designer before we jump ship.

 

[savvy23]

As for the retailers vs. wholesalers. If a retailer gets a high percentage of returns of RM bags, they will convey this message to RM by either not reordering her bags or telling her of the problems. It sounds like Rebecca deals more directly with the stores and boutiques, so if they have a problem, it is more likely to reach Rebecca herself.

As for the CC being charged interest, you can't really blame RM for that. Pay the cc off. If you can't, you probably shouldn't have ordered the bag in the first place. Having the wait a few months is part of the price we have to pay for getting a custom product.
quote]
Sheesh!!!

 

[Contessa]

Circoit, the handles are not well-padded. See HB's post in the "handles" thread. http://forum.purseblog.com/rebecca-minkoff/rm-handles-whats-the-story-335079-3.html

And do you think it's right for a company to charge full price for a product up-front and deliver it months later???? I'm not speaking of a deposit, I'm talking about the Ladies who paid $600 (FULL PRICE) upfront for a bag to be delivered months later.

I think what bothers me is that I know some of the "Minkettes" here from way back.....and they're great Ladies.....They support RM 100%....even when something goes terribly wrong. I mean, look at this thread for example. I feel for them when something goes wrong....an order takes forever....credit cards get charged for a product that is not delivered.........It's a shame.......I'll bet close to 95% of RM's sales happen right here too and for that I truly feel the "Minkettes" receive better treatment. They're not celebrities, they're "REAL" people who support a Designer they love....I think it's an admirable quaility.....and one that should be appreciated.

I'm not what you would call a "regular" or a "Minkette".....but I do come here to read in hopes that something has changed for the better.

 

[MJDaisy]

ok i didn't go through and read everybody's responses, but i am going to respond to the OP's reply. i have 3 RM bags, all 3 are top quality ( and 2 came from a sample sale)...i think RM is doing a great job. she listens to her customers and is probably doing her best as a NEW designer to do this. she is JUST starting out. she hasn't had a handbag line for that long. people forget this sometimes (IMO). i think it is unfair to come in here and say some of the things you said (i know you have an opinion and i do think you did make good points) but i am personally offended when you said "i would be embarassed to call myself a minkette"....i'm sorry...but i call myself a minkette and if you aren't one then ok. that's fine..but why say that? i think you have every right to question the brand and it's ok that you did so, i can't relate to your complaints as i have had good CS but you are entitled.i would personally just post my questions/complaints and leave it at that...sorry you feel this way and if you have had bad CS.

 

[circoit]

No offense, but if you are tired of reading about people's dissatisfactions, then why do you?

If you haven't had any issues with your bags, then why bother to read these threads at all? It would be so easy to skip past them and ignore. And honestly, this forum is far from being "filled" with negative threads.

And I'm sorry if you find our anger at spending lots of $ on defective bags, and having horrible customer service experiences "tiring" and "negative", but just ignore us and be pleased that you're one of the lucky ones who has had no need to complain.

Not speaking to you personally, but possibly some of us who feel unhappy with our bags & service sometimes feel put-down upon by the RM "cheerleaders" who come into the few threads where we can voice our bummed out thoughts, and just whine and complain about us for being negative complainers. Ironic, no?

There are always 2 sides to every coin.

I don't ignore threads like these because I do want to sympathize with people who do get a bad deal or help them make decisions regarding whether to return, etc. I guess I am just annoyed by this particular thread because there was no specific complaint attached to it.

I've visited a lot of other threads, and most people seem to be very supportive, I don't see anyone being put down upon. And its annoying being referred to as a "cheerleader".

I am a business owner myself, so I tend to look at things from an owners perspective - and that usually means giving them the benefit of the doubt. I've experienced the embarrassment a business owner feels when they find out that employees have treated customers in a rude or shoddy manner. Or, when bad products have been shipped out. Stuff like this happens, and rather than telling us customers to shove it, it does seem like she is trying to make amends.

It can take awhile to streamline a company and get good employees - especially when it is growing at a rapid rate. Things fall through the cracks, more often than one would like, unfortunately. I would only hope that people who had bad experiences with my company as a result of growing pains and unfortunate hires - would give us a second chance or allow us to try and make amends in some way.

I don't see anything wrong with coming on here and telling people not to lose faith in the brand entirely - that perhaps these experiences are the exception and not the rule. I try to look at things in a positive light in general - so I can't help but feel the need to show the bright side of things.

 

[K.Z.]

"I've experienced the embarrassment a business owner feels when they find out that employees have treated customers in a rude or shoddy manner. Or, when bad products have been shipped out....It can take awhile to streamline a company and get good employees - especially when it is growing at a rapid rate. Things fall through the cracks, more often than one would like, unfortunately. I would only hope that people who had bad experiences with my company as a result of growing pains and unfortunate hires - would give us a second chance or allow us to try and make amends in some way."

That is a good point. I think employees' behavior often reflect what they get from management, but in this case I'm inclined to believe that when the Hollywood girls started carrying RMs, demand exploded and the company has had to grow too quickly. It's hard to grow and keep up with business as usual at the same time.
.

 

[Lexie2000]

ok i didn't go through and read everybody's responses, but i am going to respond to the OP's reply. i have 3 RM bags, all 3 are top quality ( and 2 came from a sample sale)...i think RM is doing a great job. she listens to her customers and is probably doing her best as a NEW designer to do this. she is JUST starting out. she hasn't had a handbag line for that long. people forget this sometimes (IMO). i think it is unfair to come in here and say some of the things you said (i know you have an opinion and i do think you did make good points) but i am personally offended when you said "i would be embarassed to call myself a minkette"....i'm sorry...but i call myself a minkette and if you aren't one then ok. that's fine..but why say that? i think you have every right to question the brand and it's ok that you did so, i can't relate to your complaints as i have had good CS but you are entitled.i would personally just post my questions/complaints and leave it at that...sorry you feel this way and if you have had bad CS.

My statement about being a Minkette is my personal feeling. I "personally" would feel embarrassed. How could I stand beside and behind a company that treats many of their customers with such neglect. Customers that are your friends and fellow posters in this group. That is where I am coming from.

 

[Contessa]

As for the CC being charged interest, you can't really blame RM for that. Pay the cc off. If you can't, you probably shouldn't have ordered the bag in the first place. Having the wait a few months is part of the price we have to pay for getting a custom product.

This statement is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've read in a long time.

Are you suggesting that only people who never need to borrow should be allowed to buy these bags???? I think that's a little harsh....if not downright strange. You lost me on your logic...or lack thereof.

If you're one of those few people who can pay their CC's off in full each month, good for you! You probably belong to the very small percentage of people to do so.

 

[fabae]

Good grief. Another mess.

I think the issue with cards being charged and bags being delivered months later is not one of c.c. interest. It's that a bag is promised on this date, and then that date, and then that date, etc. and there's NO CONTACT from the company. You have my money, now you owe me an e-mail (if not the product I paid for). Some people are entirely missing that point. Yes, we know we ordered a bag and had a wait for it. But when it's promised on a certain date, which then comes and goes and NOT ONE PAYING CUSTOMER gets an explanation (without e-mailing or calling and asking WTFs up), then that seems to me to be a clear example of shoddy customer service.

Yes, you may decide that what Lexie said was harsh, but she's got a point. When IS enough enough?

I have never called myself a Minkette or an H-H Ho or any other "bag follower" term that has come up. While I do love certain brands, I also think it's kind of odd to define oneself by loving a brand. However, that's me, and I understand that we live in a consumer-driven society. Whatever.

Why do these threads always explode? Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Why do some feel it's a personal attack on them?

Rebecca Minkoff, for most of us, is not your friend. (I could be wrong; some of you may hang out with her on the weekend. Who knows? Point is, you're buying her bags.) She is trying to sell you something. If there is a critique of business practices, they should be taken constructively and totally impersonally. Besides which, no one is attcking her moral character. These are her business transactions we're talking about.

There are a bazillion threads in here that are all totally positive. So much so, that expressing a dissenting opinion often seems forbidden. Why burst anyone's bubble? But take a deep breath, relax, and if you cannot read a thread that expresses opinions other than your own without getting worked up over it, don't read it.

 

[circoit]

I've examined the handles on my new BBW special orders and my sea green MAM handles - and there is a difference between those handles and the handles on my tangerine and stone MAMs and other MABs from earlier. If you look at the seam on the handles, it starts lower - closer to the hardware than it did in previous seasons. This adds extra strength to the handles, without having to change the material inside.

It sucks to have to pay the full amount for special orders, up front, but I can see where it is a huge advantage for a company to do so. And it has nothing to do with getting the money in advance. It prevents a lot of follow up with customers that would be required before orders could ship out. They may have problems with credit cards being declined, and having to keep track of who has paid in full and who still needs to be contacted for additional credit card info, etc.

So, while its inconvenient for us, I can see why a company would require it, and I wouldn't hold it against them. It definitely makes me think twice before placing a special order with them, because paying half up front and half later always makes a bag purchase easier. That probably why I missed out on that first stonewash Nikki order - I didn't have the money at the time they put the order through, so I couldn't take part in it. If they did it half and half, I probably could have swung the purchase.

RM's direct-to-consumer service definitely does need some improvements, its not without its downfalls. I am aware of these issues, and this is why I avoid ordering from their site. However, I don't find their CS pitfalls to be egregious enough for me to stop buying their product - or from ordering from their site if I have to (ie, a special order or online exclusive).

They should definitely be given constructive criticism on how to improve, but I think we can avoid becoming downright mean about it.

 

[Contessa]

It sucks to have to pay the full amount for special orders, up front, but I can see where it is a huge advantage for a company to do so. And it has nothing to do with getting the money in advance. It prevents a lot of follow up with customers that would be required before orders could ship out. They may have problems with credit cards being declined, and having to keep track of who has paid in full and who still needs to be contacted for additional credit card info, etc.

So, while its inconvenient for us, I can see why a company would require it, and I wouldn't hold it against them. It definitely makes me think twice before placing a special order with them, because paying half up front and half later always makes a bag purchase easier. That probably why I missed out on that first stonewash Nikki order - I didn't have the money at the time they put the order through, so I couldn't take part in it. If they did it half and half, I probably could have swung the purchase.

This still doesn't explain why the product is repeatedly late and/or not delivered by the date promised.

Once the bag delivery dates came and went, the contract was then broken, and people should have been offered the choice of a full refund or ordering something else that was/is available.

 

[K.Z.]

Good grief. Another mess.

I think the issue with cards being charged and bags being delivered months later is not one of c.c. interest. It's that a bag is promised on this date, and then that date, and then that date, etc. and there's NO CONTACT from the company. You have my money, now you owe me an e-mail (if not the product I paid for). Some people are entirely missing that point. Yes, we know we ordered a bag and had a wait for it. But when it's promised on a certain date, which then comes and goes and NOT ONE PAYING CUSTOMER gets an explanation (without e-mailing or calling and asking WTFs up), then that seems to me to be a clear example of shoddy customer service.

Yes, you may decide that what Lexie said was harsh, but she's got a point. When IS enough enough?

I have never called myself a Minkette or an H-H Ho or any other "bag follower" term that has come up. While I do love certain brands, I also think it's kind of odd to define oneself by loving a brand. However, that's me, and I understand that we live in a consumer-driven society. Whatever.

Why do these threads always explode? Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Why do some feel it's a personal attack on them?

Rebecca Minkoff, for most of us, is not your friend. (I could be wrong; some of you may hang out with her on the weekend. Who knows? Point is, you're buying her bags.) She is trying to sell you something. If there is a critique of business practices, they should be taken constructively and totally impersonally. Besides which, no one is attcking her moral character. These are her business transactions we're talking about.

There are a bazillion threads in here that are all totally positive. So much so, that expressing a dissenting opinion often seems forbidden. Why burst anyone's bubble? But take a deep breath, relax, and if you cannot read a thread that expresses opinions other than your own without getting worked up over it, don't read it.[/quote]


I could not agree with you more about everything you stated. And I'm with you 1000% regarding the comments in bold. Thank you.:okay:

 

[circoit]

This statement is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've read in a long time.

Are you suggesting that only people who never need to borrow should be allowed to buy these bags???? I think that's a little harsh....if not downright strange. You lost me on your logic...or lack thereof.

If you're one of those few people who can pay their CC's off in full each month, good for you! You probably belong to the very small percentage of people to do so.

Perhaps it was a bit over-the-top, but I also don't think its bad advice for someone to save up for a bag and make sure they have the cash for it before buying it.

If someone was putting the bag on a cc, I don't see how it would cost them any extra if they got the bag in one month versus two months vs three months. Hopefully, they wouldn't wait until they had the bag in their hands before making payments...

And fabae - I agree with you. People should be notified about delays, shipping dates, etc. In this regard, RM could use a lot of improvement. I am guessing that this problem rests on Cory's shoulders, though. She doesn't respond promptly and gives out false information. It could be because she is overwhelmed or unorganized, or she could just be a bad employee. It reflects badly on the company as a whole, so hopefully Rebecca knows about it and is trying to fix it.

The reason I respond? Because I know there are people who are trying to make up their minds on whether or not to make their first RM purchase, and these threads do have an impact. I love the bags, so I do want to make sure both sides of an argument are present. People should definitely know that if they order through RM.com - they will probably experience shipping delays and slow response times. They should also know that the bags are awesome - QC control issues are being addressed, and even though there are hiccups in the RM system, the company is not the devil and screwing people out of money, intentionally sending out defective bags and purposefully ignoring e-mails.

In my opinion, the bags are worth the effort. We would all be happier if these issues weren't present, but the reality is what it is.