What is going on with Coach?

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That was definitely true for me! I bought my first Coach bag at the boutique with a coupon. It was the most expensive purse I had ever owned and I absolutely loved it. Several months later I went to the outlet mall for Christmas shopping and found the factory store and I was thrilled. It never occurred to me that they were selling a different level of products. I bought a (rather hideous) satchel in the horse and carriage pattern and I was so pleased with my purchase - until I got home and set it down next to my boutique bag. It just didn't have the same quality or style (or the same feel!) and it didn't give me the same happy glow. I returned it and started to do some investigating and that brought me to TPF and I came to understand the difference between MFF and FP bags and learned how to distinguish them. And I became a savvy Coach shopper.

And it's true that not all outlet stores sell a cheaper line of products. When I go to the Movado outlet, the watches they sell labeled "Coach" are the exact same watches that were previously available in the boutiques and on Coach.com - they are just discontinued styles and overstock. Of course Coach doesn't offer a cheaper line of watches (not yet, anyway!) so if I find a watch in the Coach outlet it will also be a FP delete. I'm just saying that when I go to the Movado factory store I don't have to worry about 2 levels of quality. Of course, they may sell a second level of Movado label watches! I don't know but if I ever decided to buy one I will check it out first, but at least I know that the designer watches that Movado makes for companies like Coach are boutique quality.

It's okay with me that Coach sells a factory line of products, I did a lot Christmas shopping at the outlet this year and bought some great MFF stocking stuffers and small gifts - they were very nice, good quality products at a great price and much appreciated by the recipients. I just think that branding the MFF products the same as the boutique is misleading, and so is the practice of "marking up" the MSRP of the MFF bags and then immediately reducing them drastically - to trick the customer into thinking that they got a fantastic deal; all I can say is Buyer Beware!
That's kind of what happened to me in a way. When I first came to the US, I thought outlets sold "last season" items and slightly irregular items... and that was exciting! Apart from the Italian outlet stores of big luxury brands, there are no outlet stores in the region I come from in France. So I did not have a lot of experience with outlet stores.

But something was off with some brands, which prompted me to do a little bit of extra research. I was stunned to read up on outlet store strategies... it was a real wake up call!
 
That's kind of what happened to me in a way. When I first came to the US, I thought outlets sold "last season" items and slightly irregular items... and that was exciting! Apart from the Italian outlet stores of big luxury brands, there are no outlet stores in the region I come from in France. So I did not have a lot of experience with outlet stores.

But something was off with some brands, which prompted me to do a little bit of extra research. I was stunned to read up on outlet store strategies... it was a real wake up call!


To tie in with these topics, here's an interesting link from several months ago, in case any of you are not familiar with this class action lawsuit, involving Coach and a few other designers -- there was a more in-depth article about this in Business Insider, but I don't feel like searching fir it now -- but this addresses the fake "MSRP" scam. Actually, I'll C&P it.

Burberry, Coach Named in Latest Deceptive Pricing Class Actions
Posted on February 29, 2016 by Andrew B. Lustigman, Katelyn J. Patton
Luxury retailers Burberry and Coach were the latest retailers to be hit with class action lawsuits involving accusations of deceptive pricing and discount advertising of merchandise sold at their outlet stores. The lawsuits are part of a growing trend focusing on allegations of deceptive outlet and discount store comparative pricing.

On February 11, 2016, Thomas Belcastro, individually and on behalf of a putative class, filed a suit against Burberry Limited in the Southern District of New York, challenging Burberry’s outlet store pricing policies and related advertising. The plaintiff contends that, because the goods sold at Burberry Factory Outlet stores were made exclusively for the outlets and not actually available at retail stores, the luxury fashion brand intentionally misrepresented the existence, nature and amount of price discounts on these goods.

The Burberry complaint alleges that, on the price tags of its Outlet products, Burberry advertises a Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (“MSRP”) and/or a “Was” price together with a supposedly discounted “Now” price. According to the plaintiff, Burberry actually manufactures these products for exclusive sale at its Factory Outlet stores, and they are always sold at the advertised “Now” price. As a result, he contends, Burberry deceives its customers and induces them to purchase Outlet products under the mistaken impression that they are benefitting from significant discounts.

The very next day, on February 12, 2016, Michelle Marino, represented by the same law firm as Belcastro, filed a nearly identical lawsuit in the Southern District against Coach, Inc. There, the plaintiff contends that Coach advertises a reduced price intended to portray to consumers a deep reduction from an advertised MSRP. Instead, Marino alleges, the “inflated” MSRPs are “a sham designed to mislead and deceive consumers,” as Coach manufactures such products for exclusive sale at its outlet stores and always sells these goods for the advertised reduced price.

The Burberry and Coach complaints are the latest in a wave of class action lawsuits accusing retailers of deceptive comparison pricing, with the plaintiffs’ bar focusing in particular on outlet retailers. These lawsuits focus on the fact that significant percentages of merchandise at outlet stores are “made for outlet.” According to the plaintiffs, discounts off of MSRPs and the like are fictitious because the same product is not otherwise available at retail at the referenced price.

As we previously have written, regulations regarding pricing are addressed in the Federal Trade Commission’s long-standing “Guides Against Deceptive Pricing” which can be found at 16 C.F.R. §233. In addition, many states have codified comparative pricing laws. The key component of the Pricing Guides is that a discount must be bona fide and relate to the offering for sale of the same or comparable merchandise in the same vicinity for a reasonable prior period of time. While the FTC has essentially allowed the marketplace to enforce itself, plaintiffs have seized on ambiguities and the often-inconsistent laws and regulations governing this area to challenge retailers’ discount pricing practices.

TAKE AWAY: Retailers must be especially careful when advertising comparative prices, particularly when the comparison is not to the same product being sold at the higher referenced price. Retailers need to understand the environment and work to craft defensible pricing practices that include explaining the basis for comparison clearly, conspicuously and accurately.

The End
 
To tie in with these topics, here's an interesting link from several months ago, in case any of you are not familiar with this class action lawsuit, involving Coach and a few other designers -- there was a more in-depth article about this in Business Insider, but I don't feel like searching fir it now -- but this addresses the fake "MSRP" scam. Actually, I'll C&P it.

Burberry, Coach Named in Latest Deceptive Pricing Class Actions
Posted on February 29, 2016 by Andrew B. Lustigman, Katelyn J. Patton
Luxury retailers Burberry and Coach were the latest retailers to be hit with class action lawsuits involving accusations of deceptive pricing and discount advertising of merchandise sold at their outlet stores. The lawsuits are part of a growing trend focusing on allegations of deceptive outlet and discount store comparative pricing.

On February 11, 2016, Thomas Belcastro, individually and on behalf of a putative class, filed a suit against Burberry Limited in the Southern District of New York, challenging Burberry’s outlet store pricing policies and related advertising. The plaintiff contends that, because the goods sold at Burberry Factory Outlet stores were made exclusively for the outlets and not actually available at retail stores, the luxury fashion brand intentionally misrepresented the existence, nature and amount of price discounts on these goods.

The Burberry complaint alleges that, on the price tags of its Outlet products, Burberry advertises a Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (“MSRP”) and/or a “Was” price together with a supposedly discounted “Now” price. According to the plaintiff, Burberry actually manufactures these products for exclusive sale at its Factory Outlet stores, and they are always sold at the advertised “Now” price. As a result, he contends, Burberry deceives its customers and induces them to purchase Outlet products under the mistaken impression that they are benefitting from significant discounts.

The very next day, on February 12, 2016, Michelle Marino, represented by the same law firm as Belcastro, filed a nearly identical lawsuit in the Southern District against Coach, Inc. There, the plaintiff contends that Coach advertises a reduced price intended to portray to consumers a deep reduction from an advertised MSRP. Instead, Marino alleges, the “inflated” MSRPs are “a sham designed to mislead and deceive consumers,” as Coach manufactures such products for exclusive sale at its outlet stores and always sells these goods for the advertised reduced price.

The Burberry and Coach complaints are the latest in a wave of class action lawsuits accusing retailers of deceptive comparison pricing, with the plaintiffs’ bar focusing in particular on outlet retailers. These lawsuits focus on the fact that significant percentages of merchandise at outlet stores are “made for outlet.” According to the plaintiffs, discounts off of MSRPs and the like are fictitious because the same product is not otherwise available at retail at the referenced price.

As we previously have written, regulations regarding pricing are addressed in the Federal Trade Commission’s long-standing “Guides Against Deceptive Pricing” which can be found at 16 C.F.R. §233. In addition, many states have codified comparative pricing laws. The key component of the Pricing Guides is that a discount must be bona fide and relate to the offering for sale of the same or comparable merchandise in the same vicinity for a reasonable prior period of time. While the FTC has essentially allowed the marketplace to enforce itself, plaintiffs have seized on ambiguities and the often-inconsistent laws and regulations governing this area to challenge retailers’ discount pricing practices.

TAKE AWAY: Retailers must be especially careful when advertising comparative prices, particularly when the comparison is not to the same product being sold at the higher referenced price. Retailers need to understand the environment and work to craft defensible pricing practices that include explaining the basis for comparison clearly, conspicuously and accurately.

The End
I'm surprised it took so long for someone to file these lawsuits. Many outlets get around this by putting "Compare at" on their price tags.
 
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That was definitely true for me! I bought my first Coach bag at the boutique with a coupon. It was the most expensive purse I had ever owned and I absolutely loved it. Several months later I went to the outlet mall for Christmas shopping and found the factory store and I was thrilled. It never occurred to me that they were selling a different level of products. I bought a (rather hideous) satchel in the horse and carriage pattern and I was so pleased with my purchase - until I got home and set it down next to my boutique bag. It just didn't have the same quality or style (or the same feel!) and it didn't give me the same happy glow. I returned it and started to do some investigating and that brought me to TPF and I came to understand the difference between MFF and FP bags and learned how to distinguish them. And I became a savvy Coach shopper.

This was my exact same experience too. I bought what I thought was the most beautiful handbag I'd ever seen...a black leather with silver hardware Sophia satchel. Then the outlet mall opened and oh lord...there was a Coach store. Again, just like you, I purchased, indiscriminately, a few bags but ultimately, I returned them all.

Then the magic happened. Somehow I found TPF and I read and read and read. Since then, I have several deletes from the outlet, lots of great SLG's and some MFF smalls as well.

But I don't think every person is going to take the time to learn all the ins and outs and are perfectly happy to just be carrying a Coach or other 'name' brand. Where I live, MK is more popular than Coach...the MK outlet store is directly across from the Coach one. ha ha
 
This was my exact same experience too. I bought what I thought was the most beautiful handbag I'd ever seen...a black leather with silver hardware Sophia satchel. Then the outlet mall opened and oh lord...there was a Coach store. Again, just like you, I purchased, indiscriminately, a few bags but ultimately, I returned them all.

Then the magic happened. Somehow I found TPF and I read and read and read. Since then, I have several deletes from the outlet, lots of great SLG's and some MFF smalls as well.

But I don't think every person is going to take the time to learn all the ins and outs and are perfectly happy to just be carrying a Coach or other 'name' brand. Where I live, MK is more popular than Coach...the MK outlet store is directly across from the Coach one. ha ha



In my area, not only are the outlet stores in close proximity to one another, but the MMK retail location is right across the way from the retail Coach store in my local mall. A nice hearty laugh escaped me when I saw the MMK store going in. Ahhh..."Store Wars" at its finest.
 
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This was my exact same experience too. I bought what I thought was the most beautiful handbag I'd ever seen...a black leather with silver hardware Sophia satchel. Then the outlet mall opened and oh lord...there was a Coach store. Again, just like you, I purchased, indiscriminately, a few bags but ultimately, I returned them all.

Then the magic happened. Somehow I found TPF and I read and read and read. Since then, I have several deletes from the outlet, lots of great SLG's and some MFF smalls as well.

But I don't think every person is going to take the time to learn all the ins and outs and are perfectly happy to just be carrying a Coach or other 'name' brand. Where I live, MK is more popular than Coach...the MK outlet store is directly across from the Coach one. ha ha
My experience exactly......and the MK outlet is right across from the Coach outlet in my area too.
 
Here's a new one for us to think over.....

I walked into the Coach outlet today with my Black Swagger Bandana Rivets and the SA walked over and gushed how pretty my BLAKE looked! I told her actually this one is called the Swagger... her response? "Blake, Swagger, just a name, the purses are exactly the same!" I just smiled as I was too dumbfounded to reply. Maybe I'm the one losing it and all the purses are the same!
 
Because it lessons the value and exclusiveness of the Coach name; why pay for a luxury brand that isn't fully a luxury brand and every other person you bump into is carrying it?

And I may be wrong, but my understanding is that the 1941 line was created to celebrate the company's 75th anniversary, so they may not continue it much longer. Coach has introduced other special lines to celebrate significant anniversaries in the past - the 65th Anniversary line is my personal favorite...

Coach is making significant financial investments in rebranding Coach as a luxury brand. The hiring of Stuart Verviers from Louis Vuitton, opening of Coach House, creating made to order Rogue bars, and the increase in 1941 styles vs. mid range styles are a clear indication the company is redefining the future of Coach. They would not make these significant investments if this was a temporary strategy.

Example. Notice you can't get an "Ace"? It is now a reimagined Rogue 1941 Satchel. In my opinion, you will see more of this. They have already made significant headway in elevating quality that is noticeable. The company is positioning itself for this brand elevation, and in my opinion, this is a long term strategic movement, and not a "flash in the pan". [/QUOTE[/QUOTE]View attachment 3565349
 
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I went into my outlet and bought a few of the PacMan SLGs they had on clearance and when I pulled out my wallet to pay she regarded how cute my Mickey wallet was. I said I got it recently during Coach's winter sale and she blurted out, "Coach makes Mickey stuff?!" I hope she was a new hire (I have never seen her before), but still the Disney stuff is still floating around and you think they would know some of this stuff.
 
Coach is making significant financial investments in rebranding Coach as a luxury brand. The hiring of Stuart Verviers from Louis Vuitton, opening of Coach House, creating made to order Rogue bars, and the increase in 1941 styles vs. mid range styles are a clear indication the company is redefining the future of Coach. They would not make these significant investments if this was a temporary strategy.

Example. Notice you can't get an "Ace"? It is now a reimagined Rogue 1941 Satchel. In my opinion, you will see more of this. They have already made significant headway in elevating quality that is noticeable. The company is positioning itself for this brand elevation, and in my opinion, this is a long term strategic movement, and not a "flash in the pan". [/QUOTE
View attachment 3565349[/QUOTE]

Maybe I'm not understand what you're saying but the Ace satchel is available on coach.com right now in 3 colors....my sister just bought one.
 
I went into my outlet and bought a few of the PacMan SLGs they had on clearance and when I pulled out my wallet to pay she regarded how cute my Mickey wallet was. I said I got it recently during Coach's winter sale and she blurted out, "Coach makes Mickey stuff?!" I hope she was a new hire (I have never seen her before), but still the Disney stuff is still floating around and you think they would know some of this stuff.


Your example of the SA being clueless about the Coach x Disney collaboration is truly shocking! Months before those items were even released this past summer, EVERY media and print source was running stories about the "then" upcoming marketing event. I believe even our local evening TV news stations referenced it. The announcement wasn't limited to only fashion themed sources -- most business publications ran either in-depth stories or at least made reference to the collaboration. That SA must have been living in a cave at that time, lol.
 
Here's a new one for us to think over.....

I walked into the Coach outlet today with my Black Swagger Bandana Rivets and the SA walked over and gushed how pretty my BLAKE looked! I told her actually this one is called the Swagger... her response? "Blake, Swagger, just a name, the purses are exactly the same!" I just smiled as I was too dumbfounded to reply. Maybe I'm the one losing it and all the purses are the same!


That response would only be acceptable from ANYONE other than an individual working in and/or representing Coach products. I'll bet her boss (the regional manager?) is not aware of this. Maybe the morale in that store is too low for anyone to care.
 
Coach is making significant financial investments in rebranding Coach as a luxury brand. The hiring of Stuart Verviers from Louis Vuitton, opening of Coach House, creating made to order Rogue bars, and the increase in 1941 styles vs. mid range styles are a clear indication the company is redefining the future of Coach. They would not make these significant investments if this was a temporary strategy...

That's fine but they still need to distinguish their made for factory line from their boutique line; I see loads and loads of MFF totes everywhere and "it's all coach!"
 
Coach is making significant financial investments in rebranding Coach as a luxury brand. The hiring of Stuart Verviers from Louis Vuitton, opening of Coach House, creating made to order Rogue bars, and the increase in 1941 styles vs. mid range styles are a clear indication the company is redefining the future of Coach. They would not make these significant investments if this was a temporary strategy.

Example. Notice you can't get an "Ace"? It is now a reimagined Rogue 1941 Satchel. In my opinion, you will see more of this. They have already made significant headway in elevating quality that is noticeable. The company is positioning itself for this brand elevation, and in my opinion, this is a long term strategic movement, and not a "flash in the pan". [/QUOTE
View attachment 3565349[/QUOTE]

For a company that is trying to 'elevate' itself, they sure do know how to discount the crap out of their products. I returned 4 different bags this holiday season after seeing them for 30% to 40% less than what I had just paid literally weeks before. And since when does Coach run such long sales on their website for as much as 50% off, for MONTHS at a time? Did they do that last year??

Don't get me wrong, I love the lower prices and sales. But I don't see this as a way of elevating their brand between this and the outlets. To me, Coach is just a mid-level brand with a few higher priced bags that eventually end up on sale. Still love them though and I will continue to buy, especially with the great discounts. Just not sure how many would pay full price at this point.
 
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