What is going on with Coach?

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As some have mentioned the Phoebe is not an outlet purse. I believe the same is true for the Edie. The Lexy however appears to be outlet targeted. I do not recall seeing the Lexy on coach.com but could have missed it. Another example would be the Mercer. That bag is still listed on coach.com but is also available on coachoutlet.com if you have access.

If you remember the Maggie product line, those bags are very similar and have three compartments much like the Phoebe, Edie, and Lexy. These are all identical designs from some original past with slight moderations.

So perhaps they come up with some new designs but again, why would the Colette bag make a return to the outlet when I knew someone who bought the bag from a Coach store in Puerto Rico back in 2011 or 2012. And if you take the Coach Swagger 27, I can find several examples of nearly the exact same genuine design from Coach released many years ago. Of course it wasn't called a Swagger back then.
Coach reuses names. These are the 2010 Full Price version of Colette: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Coa...800193?hash=item1ebdc4a5c1:g:FvMAAOSwEzxYP7iu
http://www.ebay.com/itm/COACH-16457...644510?hash=item3f713b321e:g:MA8AAOSwux5YReaD
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coach-Signa...779984?hash=item543f82a750:g:nzIAAOSwux5YPy8a
This is the 2013 factory version: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NWOT-Authen...120875?hash=item4d50dcab6b:g:JjkAAOSwux5YWreu
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NWT-COACH-C...086889?hash=item3aa58568a9:g:PKMAAOSwrklVCgzy
This is the 2014 factory version: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coach-COLET...277760?hash=item360a6ef4c0:g:4dsAAOSwzaJX8~Mh
I don't know there are any more recent versions.
I don't recall a bag that looked like the Swagger.
 
As some have mentioned the Phoebe is not an outlet purse. I believe the same is true for the Edie. The Lexy however appears to be outlet targeted. I do not recall seeing the Lexy on coach.com but could have missed it. Another example would be the Mercer. That bag is still listed on coach.com but is also available on coachoutlet.com if you have access.

If you remember the Maggie product line, those bags are very similar and have three compartments much like the Phoebe, Edie, and Lexy. These are all identical designs from some original past with slight moderations.

So perhaps they come up with some new designs but again, why would the Colette bag make a return to the outlet when I knew someone who bought the bag from a Coach store in Puerto Rico back in 2011 or 2012. And if you take the Coach Swagger 27, I can find several examples of nearly the exact same genuine design from Coach released many years ago. Of course it wasn't called a Swagger back then.
Hi. Is this the bag you thinks looks like a Swagger? http://www.ebay.com/itm/COACH-BAG-C...572893?hash=item2ef9de05dd:g:LgMAAOSwEzxYVbsA
 
Pretty sure it's blake that is the swagger ish outlet type bag.. loads said they saw a minion in it's turnlock placement lol. I've seen both, personally prefer the original but i'd say it's common for the outlet to come up with similar designs to the ones in boutique, not always of coarse but there are many that do exist, some are more loosely based others very close in style/design.
 
I would say that Coach has returned to some creativity, but the problem with that has been that the prices for many bags are now too high for me. So I can't really buy much anymore. I do think where they lack creativity is when they keep certain styles for a long time.... like Swagger and Rogue. I like them both, but it feels like they take up a lot of the collection and I want more options.

I believe Rogue was introduced about a year ago. Compare for example the introduction of colors and color blocking, embellishments, and hardware on the Coach 1941s to even (dare I say) Louis Vuitton. Coach oozes creativity and wins hands down.

Coach's bags are more expensive in the 1941s because this new line is now considered a "luxury" line. The leather and appointments are top notch. The regular Coach line is an "aspirational" line. The outlet made for factory are a third less luxe line. Less bells and whistles; thinner materials, and therefore cheaper.

You have to think of Coach now as three separate lines within the Coach brand.

As far as being more expensive you get what you pay for. (Or sometimes with Coach, you even get MORE than what you pay for). The 1941s can stand up to any of the major luxury brands now, in my opinion, thanks to Stuart Veevers and his new vision for Coach.

As far as cost, there are a few 1941 bags that are on sale right now. Nice price drops for this quality. A few lucky souls will get the last few of these fab items at a greatly reduced cost.

IMG_1482996598.093082.jpg
 
I believe Rogue was introduced about a year ago. Compare for example the introduction of colors and color blocking, embellishments, and hardware on the Coach 1941s to even (dare I say) Louis Vuitton. Coach oozes creativity and wins hands down.

Coach's bags are more expensive in the 1941s because this new line is now considered a "luxury" line. The leather and appointments are top notch. The regular Coach line is an "aspirational" line. The outlet made for factory are a third less luxe line. Less bells and whistles; thinner materials, and therefore cheaper.

You have to think of Coach now as three separate lines within the Coach brand.

As far as being more expensive you get what you pay for. (Or sometimes with Coach, you even get MORE than what you pay for). The 1941s can stand up to any of the major luxury brands now, in my opinion, thanks to Stuart Veevers and his new vision for Coach.

As far as cost, there are a few 1941 bags that are on sale right now. Nice price drops for this quality. A few lucky souls will get the last few of these fab items at a greatly reduced cost.

View attachment 3559510

I have been buying Coach for a while, so I am not new to the game. The reality for me is that I have several bags from previous years that are just as nice as the bags they are offering now, and they cost a lot less, and I like them more. I realize a lot of people love the Rogue, and other 1941 bags, and do not mind paying more. But for me personally, there aren't a lot of styles I like at the moment, and they cost more than I would ever pay. And I bought a few 1941 bags, and only liked one. The other two weren't worth what I spent, and I just didn't like them as much as my other bags. I get they want to be considered luxury, and I have no issue with that. For me, I just will be buying fewer bags...

And just as an additional opinion, though I like my 2 Swagger bags I have, I don't consider them a higher luxury bag than my lower cost bags, but they charge a decent amount for those bags. I bought mine on sale...I would not have bought them at full price.
 
I have been buying Coach for a while, so I am not new to the game. The reality for me is that I have several bags from previous years that are just as nice as the bags they are offering now, and they cost a lot less, and I like them more. I realize a lot of people love the Rogue, and other 1941 bags, and do not mind paying more. But for me personally, there aren't a lot of styles I like at the moment, and they cost more than I would ever pay. And I bought a few 1941 bags, and only liked one. The other two weren't worth what I spent, and I just didn't like them as much as my other bags. I get they want to be considered luxury, and I have no issue with that. For me, I just will be buying fewer bags...

And just as an additional opinion, though I like my 2 Swagger bags I have, I don't consider them a higher luxury bag than my lower cost bags, but they charge a decent amount for those bags. I bought mine on sale...I would not have bought them at full price.
First of all, I'm sorry you feel that people think the higher $$ you pay for a purse, the better quality or that you don't know what quality is unless you spend the $$. That's not what we are trying to say about Outlet v Retail v 1941 lines.

It is true that some materials are more luxurious than others and that's what the price sometimes shows. A Retail Nomad's leather is very luxurious especially with the leather-lined interior. The Outlet version to the Nomad is the Harley, the leather is different more lightweight, fabric lined interior. Does that mean one's quality is better than the other? No, it just means they are made with different quality materials and depending on the eye of the beholder, quality is different. I own both of these and overall prefer the Nomad because that's my taste just like there's people out there who prefer the Harley.

Some may not pay retail for the swagger but there's others who will because they believe the purse is worth it. (Like me). There's other handbags that I wouldn't pay retail for because of my taste but I wouldn't knock people who do, just like I have my reasons for paying retail, they do too.

My problem is with the individuals who go into an outlet store, pick up a product and judges the whole Coach line on this product. They then start wondering why people like me pay what I do for a "Coach". It's frustrating to me when people see my Rogue and immediately say "why?", the outlet sells handbags and they are way cheaper.... they judge the Rogue/Coach based on what they see and feel at the Outlet. Once they look at my Rogue, notice/feel the thick leather and suede, they see the difference. Doesn't mean they'll go buy a Rogue but they understand there's a difference. Same goes for those that are Retail Coach shoppers who walk into an outlet and see the handbags there and "think" poor quality because they are used to different materials. Is one better than the other? Again, quality is based on the materials and quality is best judged for each individual type of material. Now that doesn't mean a $700 bag is better than a $100 one, just means they are different and should be judge on what you believe is important (reality is too that some raw materials cost more too, thus higher price tag) Glovetanned leather is suppose to be the best type of leather, some are willing to pay for that, others are not as some don't like how easy it scratches, thus their perception may be that's it's not the best quality.

Bottom line to me is, buy what you want and are willing to pay for BUT know the differences before making blanket judgments about a product.

Please note, this post is not meant to attack anyone or reply to an individual, my apologies if that's how it's read, just trying to sort thru the whole outlet v retail v 1941 line.
 
First of all, I'm sorry you feel that people think the higher $$ you pay for a purse, the better quality or that you don't know what quality is unless you spend the $$. That's not what we are trying to say about Outlet v Retail v 1941 lines.

It is true that some materials are more luxurious than others and that's what the price sometimes shows. A Retail Nomad's leather is very luxurious especially with the leather-lined interior. The Outlet version to the Nomad is the Harley, the leather is different more lightweight, fabric lined interior. Does that mean one's quality is better than the other? No, it just means they are made with different quality materials and depending on the eye of the beholder, quality is different. I own both of these and overall prefer the Nomad because that's my taste just like there's people out there who prefer the Harley.

Some may not pay retail for the swagger but there's others who will because they believe the purse is worth it. (Like me). There's other handbags that I wouldn't pay retail for because of my taste but I wouldn't knock people who do, just like I have my reasons for paying retail, they do too.

My problem is with the individuals who go into an outlet store, pick up a product and judges the whole Coach line on this product. They then start wondering why people like me pay what I do for a "Coach". It's frustrating to me when people see my Rogue and immediately say "why?", the outlet sells handbags and they are way cheaper.... they judge the Rogue/Coach based on what they see and feel at the Outlet. Once they look at my Rogue, notice/feel the thick leather and suede, they see the difference. Doesn't mean they'll go buy a Rogue but they understand there's a difference. Same goes for those that are Retail Coach shoppers who walk into an outlet and see the handbags there and "think" poor quality because they are used to different materials. Is one better than the other? Again, quality is based on the materials and quality is best judged for each individual type of material. Now that doesn't mean a $700 bag is better than a $100 one, just means they are different and should be judge on what you believe is important (reality is too that some raw materials cost more too, thus higher price tag) Glovetanned leather is suppose to be the best type of leather, some are willing to pay for that, others are not as some don't like how easy it scratches, thus their perception may be that's it's not the best quality.

Bottom line to me is, buy what you want and are willing to pay for BUT know the differences before making blanket judgments about a product.

Please note, this post is not meant to attack anyone or reply to an individual, my apologies if that's how it's read, just trying to sort thru the whole outlet v retail v 1941 line.

I think you stated this very well and easily explained the differences between the retail/factory items, and I also agree that the creativity with Coach designs is on the upswing and it's a brand to watch.
 
My only problem with the outlet vs the retail store is judgment of quality. Because some bags in the outlet are full retail bags, sometimes it's hard to know whether the Swagger you're buying from the outlet is truly the same full retail Swagger.

I often wonder if the Kelsey, which is popular in both small and mini sizes, is a cheaply made bag. I mean in my opinion, who wants to pay $100 to $300 for an outlet made bag that is of a significantly lesser quality when sometimes you can add a few more dollars and get a full retail bag.

The flip side is, why spend $300 full retail when the same bag in a different color has become available at the outlet store simply because the full retail store is no longer offering that identical product.
 
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I think you stated this very well and easily explained the differences between the retail/factory items, and I also agree that the creativity with Coach designs is on the upswing and it's a brand to watch.
Thank you! I really wasnt trying to be negative, thus my apologies.

I have been a Coachie for along time and was lucky enough at work to have Sara Lee Corp. as my client in the early 90's who at that time owned Coach. I was blessed to actually visit their warehouse and facilities where they made the Coach products so I have a special place for them in my heart!
 
First of all, I'm sorry you feel that people think the higher $$ you pay for a purse, the better quality or that you don't know what quality is unless you spend the $$. That's not what we are trying to say about Outlet v Retail v 1941 lines.

It is true that some materials are more luxurious than others and that's what the price sometimes shows. A Retail Nomad's leather is very luxurious especially with the leather-lined interior. The Outlet version to the Nomad is the Harley, the leather is different more lightweight, fabric lined interior. Does that mean one's quality is better than the other? No, it just means they are made with different quality materials and depending on the eye of the beholder, quality is different. I own both of these and overall prefer the Nomad because that's my taste just like there's people out there who prefer the Harley.

Some may not pay retail for the swagger but there's others who will because they believe the purse is worth it. (Like me). There's other handbags that I wouldn't pay retail for because of my taste but I wouldn't knock people who do, just like I have my reasons for paying retail, they do too.

My problem is with the individuals who go into an outlet store, pick up a product and judges the whole Coach line on this product. They then start wondering why people like me pay what I do for a "Coach". It's frustrating to me when people see my Rogue and immediately say "why?", the outlet sells handbags and they are way cheaper.... they judge the Rogue/Coach based on what they see and feel at the Outlet. Once they look at my Rogue, notice/feel the thick leather and suede, they see the difference. Doesn't mean they'll go buy a Rogue but they understand there's a difference. Same goes for those that are Retail Coach shoppers who walk into an outlet and see the handbags there and "think" poor quality because they are used to different materials. Is one better than the other? Again, quality is based on the materials and quality is best judged for each individual type of material. Now that doesn't mean a $700 bag is better than a $100 one, just means they are different and should be judge on what you believe is important (reality is too that some raw materials cost more too, thus higher price tag) Glovetanned leather is suppose to be the best type of leather, some are willing to pay for that, others are not as some don't like how easy it scratches, thus their perception may be that's it's not the best quality.

Bottom line to me is, buy what you want and are willing to pay for BUT know the differences before making blanket judgments about a product.

Please note, this post is not meant to attack anyone or reply to an individual, my apologies if that's how it's read, just trying to sort thru the whole outlet v retail v 1941 line.


Agree that Nomad and Swagger have beautiful quality, as does the Ace, yet they are not 1941 bags. Great example is that butterfly swagger. I agree that we as participants of this blog get it...and we are all here for the same reason. We feel a special feeling having that special Coach bag, whatever that bag happens to be for you. [emoji4]
 
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My only problem with the outlet vs the retail store is judgment of quality. Because some bags in the outlet are full retail bags, sometimes it's hard to know whether the Swagger you're buying from the outlet is truly the same full retail Swagger.

I often wonder if the Kelsey, which is popular in both small and mini sizes, is a cheaply made bag. I mean in my opinion, who wants to pay $100 to $300 for an outlet made bag that is of a significantly lesser quality when sometimes you can add a few more dollars and get a full retail bag.

The flip side is, why spend $300 full retail when the same bag in a different color has become available at the outlet store simply because the full retail store is no longer offering that identical product.
I bought a MFF Kelsey over a year ago and returned it because the leather wasn't very nice. My FP Madison bags from a few years earlier were so much nicer. I also tried a MFF Isabelle and again returned it because of the leather quality. On the other hand, I have a bunch of MFF accessories. The Pacman accessories are great quality, just as nice as FP. I also have a fabric MFF bag and a saffiano MFF tote, both of which are great.

Do you understand the difference between deletes and MFF? Deletes are full price items that are transferred from the retail boutiques to factory stores. MFF are items specifically made for factory stores. You can tell the difference on recent bags by finding the label inside that has the style number on it. If there is an F in front of the style number (after the dash), it was made for factory. If there isn't, it is a FP item.
 
...My problem is with the individuals who go into an outlet store, pick up a product and judges the whole Coach line on this product. They then start wondering why people like me pay what I do for a "Coach"...

I think that Coach has done this to themselves. Most other brands use a slightly different name for their less expensive line of products, like "Marc by Marc Jacobs". That may be too subtle for the casual buyer to recognize but at least it signifies that this product is different from the more luxury product.

If you go into the crystal and glass section of a department store you will see glassware by "Waterford" and also "Marquis by Waterford". They are both lovely products but it is pretty easy to recognize that the "Waterford" products are generally higher quality and style and more expensive than the Marquis. Then you can make your decision based on your personal tastes and the price you want to spend - but the point is that you will know what you are buying.

I don't know what name Coach could use for their factory line, maybe something like "Carriage by Coach" - but I am sure that they have marketing experts that could come up with something appropriate!

I have purchased a few MFF Coach bags in the past but always returned them, they were nice bags but just not the same detail or quality as the boutique product IMO. All my wallets are FP also, except for one small mini-wallet. Again I like the detail, style, and quality better. I do have some MFF accessories that I like very much but I usually try to find FP deletes in accessories too.

In general I prefer to buy fewer products that are better quality, especially when I can find them at a lower price with PCE or as FP Deletes at the outlet or on the FOS; even if they are not the current season/line and I may miss out on getting some of the most popular items. Some folks would not want to devote the time and energy needed to seek out and find the bargain FP deletes and that's fine. But I still think that the MFF items should be distinctively labeled so that they have a better chance of recognizing that they are buying a nice, but lesser quality product; and to signify that Coach boutique products are higher quality and therefore have a higher retail price.

When I was shopping for gifts at the outlet recently I looked at some of the MFF winter scarves. They were cute but they were rather short and flimsy and made of a wool/synthetic blend but still labeled "Coach". At the time I was wearing a 100% cashmere scarf that was long, thick, and felt much more soft and substantial. It was in the tattersall pattern and said "Coach" on the label. I just think that it's a bit misleading to give 2 such different quality products the same branding and suggest that they are the same line.

And if Coach wants to rebuild their reputation as a luxury brand, then they should clearly signify that they also make luxury products.
 
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First of all, I'm sorry you feel that people think the higher $$ you pay for a purse, the better quality or that you don't know what quality is unless you spend the $$. That's not what we are trying to say about Outlet v Retail v 1941 lines.

It is true that some materials are more luxurious than others and that's what the price sometimes shows. A Retail Nomad's leather is very luxurious especially with the leather-lined interior. The Outlet version to the Nomad is the Harley, the leather is different more lightweight, fabric lined interior. Does that mean one's quality is better than the other? No, it just means they are made with different quality materials and depending on the eye of the beholder, quality is different. I own both of these and overall prefer the Nomad because that's my taste just like there's people out there who prefer the Harley.

Some may not pay retail for the swagger but there's others who will because they believe the purse is worth it. (Like me). There's other handbags that I wouldn't pay retail for because of my taste but I wouldn't knock people who do, just like I have my reasons for paying retail, they do too.

My problem is with the individuals who go into an outlet store, pick up a product and judges the whole Coach line on this product. They then start wondering why people like me pay what I do for a "Coach". It's frustrating to me when people see my Rogue and immediately say "why?", the outlet sells handbags and they are way cheaper.... they judge the Rogue/Coach based on what they see and feel at the Outlet. Once they look at my Rogue, notice/feel the thick leather and suede, they see the difference. Doesn't mean they'll go buy a Rogue but they understand there's a difference. Same goes for those that are Retail Coach shoppers who walk into an outlet and see the handbags there and "think" poor quality because they are used to different materials. Is one better than the other? Again, quality is based on the materials and quality is best judged for each individual type of material. Now that doesn't mean a $700 bag is better than a $100 one, just means they are different and should be judge on what you believe is important (reality is too that some raw materials cost more too, thus higher price tag) Glovetanned leather is suppose to be the best type of leather, some are willing to pay for that, others are not as some don't like how easy it scratches, thus their perception may be that's it's not the best quality.

Bottom line to me is, buy what you want and are willing to pay for BUT know the differences before making blanket judgments about a product.

Please note, this post is not meant to attack anyone or reply to an individual, my apologies if that's how it's read, just trying to sort thru the whole outlet v retail v 1941 line.
I enjoyed reading your post because it crystalizes Coach's big dilemma today: what to do with its many outlet stores. They make a lot of money for the company but they muddy the brand's relationship with customers. There is a false equivalency in customers' mind between buying a purse at the outlet and buying a purse at the boutique. A lot of people (most casual buyers) don't even understand that the vast majority of inventory at outlet stores is produced specifically for that store (and priced accordingly, meaning that you don't actually save any money). Coach needs to convince its top-spending consumers to buy full price at the boutique and that's a hard thing to do after years of near-permanent discounting and constant openings of factory outlets (disastrous strategy for which Coach has been paying a heavy price). Tough job!

So far, it seems to me that Coach has managed pretty well its transition and I am a big fan of the 1941 line. I think, in the long run, it is likely that Coach will reduce its outlet store footprint as it is able to bring back customers to full-price stores and convince them that the items are worth buying without discount. They are not there yet but have seen some success recently.
 
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