Were the Le Dix bags faked or not?? Various and speculative opinions

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#76
powderpuff100 said:
It is interesting, but honestly it proves nothing except to possibly support an opinion. I find it a huge stretch to think PC arranged or finagled it so that his PC logo would appear on some Balenciaga inside pockets. Why not the entire inside? Why didn't Balenciaga catch that since supposedly there were not a great number of these bags that were made?
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Er, it's a complete coincidence, followed by a joke - I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting Cardin did this surreptitiously.

And it's not the bags themselves that are popping up recently, it's just that people have recently noticed the Cardin lining in bags that have been there all along.
 
#77
Yes this is possibly OT....mods feel free to delete BUT I think there is a very ironic angle to this whole mess.

That is.......when someone starts a generic Bbag thread on something such as "OMG I just bought a new Bbag and the stitching is coming loose" or "The leather is peeling on the corner" or "The brass is chipped"

For the most part people are quick to cry and gasp "Take it back to the store" or "Maybe it is fake" or "What terrible craftsmanship on an expensive bag." Yet this bag has numerous "issues" to say the least and people are actually getting OFFENDED by the obvious and jumping all over other members because the obvious is that the bag has incorrect sloppy lining and an upside down buckle etc. that are just plain wrong. Bottom line is the bag is either fake or real and it is up to the buyer to decide if they feel comfortable carrying a questionable bag until proven for certain.

Also, I am either hallucinating or someone DID point out that this bag has a different shaped buckle/ring that attaches it to the handles.
 
#78
powderpuff100 said:
It is interesting, but honestly it proves nothing except to possibly support an opinion. I find it a huge stretch to think PC arranged or finagled it so that his PC logo would appear on some Balenciaga inside pockets. Why not the entire inside? Why didn't Balenciaga catch that since supposedly there were not a great number of these bags that were made?
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Oh no PP, I definitely think it is a s t r e t c h if there ever was one :yes:
 
#80
Ok, I have moved all the various posts about the SS 02 FBF with questionable authenticity for whatever reason into one thread.

I think it's ok to discuss this, but please -no discussing specific transactions- those things belong in PMs.

Let's leave this general about the bags themselves.
 
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#81
I am an expert in authenticating Balenciaga's bags, especially the lariat/motorcycle line that we all love so much! I've physically inspected hundreds of Balenciaga bags from '01 through S/S '08 (I haven't received my Fall bags yet ;o) I've been collecting these bags for many years and personally own a vast collection illustrating each and every season. I have also seen and touched counterfeit bags and even the best of them have details that are wrong, usually it's lower quality leather, different hardware, incorrect fonts and less craftsmanship.

I have received the S/S '02 Black First with the upside down buckle (on the left side) and the Pierre Cardin lining on the interior pocket and upon physical inspection I believe it to be 100% authentic Balenciaga. I personally own a S/S '02 Chocolate First and shot comparison photos of them to show how everything aside from those human errors match up. These early bags were handmade in Italy and they do show variations from bag to bag depending on the craftsman who made them.

S/S '02 Black PC First versus S/S '02 Chocolate First:
ss02_pcblk_vs_choco.jpg

^ note the same strap o-ring closure style, chunky clip hardware, square-shaped buckles, brass rivets and stitching tension and human variation.

S/S '02 Black PC First versus S/S '02 Chocolate First, plus S/S '02 Black Hobo mirror:
ss02_pcblk_vs_choco_hware.jpg

^ note the mirror grommets are the same on the Black First and Black Hobo; the hardware that attaches the handles is identical on both the Black and Choco Firsts as is the wonky handle bend above the rivet, near the whip stitch knot.

S/S '02 Chocolate First versus S/S '02 Black PC First interior pockets:
ss02_choco_vs_pcblk_inline.jpg


ss02_choco_vs_pcblk_tagup.jpg

^ note the hand stitching variation on each interior pocket and even placement of the branding tag, but the unique design is the exactly the same.

S/S '02 Chocolate First interior pocket and branding tag close-up:
ss02_choco_inzip.jpg


S/S '02 Black First PC interior pocket and branding tag close-up:
ss02_pcblack_inzip.jpg


S/S '02 Chocolate First top zipper close-up:
ss02_choco_zip_top.jpg


S/S '02 Black PC First top zipper close-up:
ss02_pcblack_zip_top.jpg


Let me know if you'd like me to show anything else in pictures while I still have this bag here before I send her back home.
 
#82
Wow "C" you have done a fabulous job of showing these bags and their similarities.

Thank you for your efforts and especially for sharing with us!! Most of us will be lucky to see *one* of these in our hunt, much less have the opportunity to compare side by side.
 
#83
Thanks, D! I am happy to help out and authenticate this particular Flat Brass First bag with its odd quirks. I didn't even mention what yummy leather it has, just like my Choco FBF, smooth and silky like butter ;o)
 
#84
'C', great to see another person's opinion on the authenticity of the black fbf with pc lining. You take awesome pictures, and that chocolate fbf is delicious!

Judging from the replies to my original thread on how 'one of a kind' this particular fbf is, I'm sure you have people lining up to put their money where their mouth is, so it's good that it will go to someone who will appreciate its 'quirks', as you called it, because god knows I will never be able to live with not knowing for sure whether it is authentic or not! It's like carrying a Chanel with a.. ermmmm.. Guess lining - totally different brands.

By the way, even the repair manager at Bal NY categorically said that the caramel fbf with PC lining is fake. The lady who owns the caramel fbf spoke to him when she took her bag to NY, and he was very kind, and couldn't divulge why he knew it was fake due to store policy, but he left no illusions as to the (total lack of) authenticity of the caramel fbf.

So now we have 2 store managers from Bal saying it's fake, and the manager in charge of repairs saying it's fake. I'ld imagine the repair manager would have expertise in bbags, he would have had to undergo some sort of training, no? I mean, he WORKS for Bal, and he would have had many bags passed through his hands too, in addition to whatever inside information he might be privvy to with regards to authenticating bbags. Of course, this bit is just conjecture on my part ;).

I am still curious, so I'll send him some pics when I've plowed through the pile of work on my desk and can write an email to go along with the pics!
 
#85
Thanks RDC. I'm sure the bag with the PC lining, and any other of the earlier bags with "human errors" will one day be collectors items worth much more than they have ever sold for now. Just like stamps and coins with "human error flaws".

And I would kill to own that choco bag of yours lol.
 
#86
I don't trust the opinions of store managers or SA's. Bal NY can't seem to get their story straight on which type of leather has been used on the bags for the past few years. Other employees haven't a clue which year the letter on the tag signifys.
 
#87
^^ IMO, i'm sickened that a tPFer would use this forum to directly go after another tPFer...if that person had an issue & wanted questions answered on authenticity, they should have contacted the experts privately instead of making this a public issue...many people here believe the bag in question is 100% authentic...and the seller offered a refund immediately upon learning about the buyers concerns, so the buyer needs to graciously accept it & let it go!!! :okay:
 
#88
^^^^^^^I took the purpose of posting was for other opinions and not to slam the seller. I didn't take it that way and am glad to know that the general consensus is that it's authentic. I also understand the OP's position in wanting it to be authentic , still there is no way to be 100% sure. I don't fault her for wanting to get several opinions. I commend the seller in her quick offer to buy it back and wouldn't expect anything less from a lovely TPF'r. I think JadeLeaves has been a valuable contributor and unless I'm missing something I wasn't privy to I don't see why you feel that way.
 
#89
Well, I'm not an expert, having never ever seen a FBF in a situation where I was able to actually touch one (sigh. I have seen them "in the wild" ) But I have to say that I honestly trust the experts on this forum way more than I do the official Bal people. Hands down. Balenciaga has never copped to its long-standing quality control issues - all flaws in bags they are currently trying to sell are "variations that give the bags character". They don't seem to admit to mistakes at all -- it seems to be their actual policy- and that really limits them. They often don't fess up to leather changes, either - and assessing the leather quality is crucial for authentication. If you can't admit that the older leather was just way more insanely fabulous than the current leather, how trustworthy can you be? The folks at Balenciaga are trained to sell bags, that's it. On the other hand, there are some folks here who are true archivists when it comes to Balenciaga bags. Just piping in to thank them for sharing their experience with us - it is greatly appreciated.
 
#90
wiggligirl said:
Well, I'm not an expert, having never ever seen a FBF in a situation where I was able to actually touch one (sigh. I have seen them "in the wild" ) But I have to say that I honestly trust the experts on this forum way more than I do the official Bal people. Hands down. Balenciaga has never copped to its long-standing quality control issues - all flaws in bags they are currently trying to sell are "variations that give the bags character". They don't seem to admit to mistakes at all -- it seems to be their actual policy- and that really limits them. They often don't fess up to leather changes, either - and assessing the leather quality is crucial for authentication. If you can't admit that the older leather was just way more insanely fabulous than the current leather, how trustworthy can you be? The folks at Balenciaga are trained to sell bags, that's it. On the other hand, there are some folks here who are true archivists when it comes to Balenciaga bags. Just piping in to thank them for sharing their experience with us - it is greatly appreciated.
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^^ ITA!!! :goodpost:
 
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