WARNING, Paypal just made me lose $20 THOUSAND dollars from a scamming buyer

[SchnauzerCrazy]

No, I packed up the bag myself and did not video tape myself doing it........I would never do that. Given that now I have been burned, Paypal would not have cared anyways even if I sent them the video.

Hence, I will no longer accept Paypal because I will not resort to video-taping myself packaging something up. I already spent $150 extra to have it independently authenticated when Paypal never even asked me for ANYTHING.

That is just it........they never ASKED me for anything, I willingly gave it to them. They only REQUIRED the BUYER to submit paperwork.

I know I will never, ever get my bag back so my hope is that I can sue Paypal. I am sure that my bag is either:
1. Be happily used by this stupid cow, or
2. Already flown across the world to some random reseller

Look, I'm honestly not trying to sound callous but having been on this part of the forum for a few months, I can't imagine NOT having some kind of record to prove my side of the story. And I never said you have to prove it to Paypal - I read the thread and I understood that Paypal has already sided with the buyer. Having read these types of threads for a while, we've all been made aware that Paypal doesn't take that as evidence as they believe it's too easily faked which is why I think (and have said this on HarperCassidy's thread) that if you're selling something that's higher value, it may be worth it to have UPS pack it up for you for a fee so that you have third party verification. In any case, you'll have to convince the court that what you actually SENT was the authentic bag - not just what you had in your possession to authenticate -- even if you're suing Paypal. Really, my heart goes out to you but I think everyone who sells anything over eBay and uses Paypal should approach EACH sale with the mindset of protecting yourself when something goes wrong.

 

[ms-whitney]

i really think that someone should start a class suit against paypal..maybe it is because i'm from CA that i think this way..

isn't it funny that in some cases (that i've read) when bags are deemed snad because not authentic they are returned to the seller and then there is a refund issued? yet i've read a few cases (one other i can think of) where paypal asks that the bag be destroyed by the buyer.

does it make a difference if the transaction is done via ebay or off ebay?

 

[silkstarh]

kristie, I read your post first thing this morning and was so sickened that I just couldn't respond at the time. Probably because it involved Hermes, which really hits home for me. I recently had several H bags to sell and had always used eBay. After reading all the recent scammer threads, I got chicken and consigned them with a local reseller. I realized that the slight amount more I would give to him was worth it, especially now that eBay and PP fees have gone up and their seller protection has gone south. I think when I read your post I thought this could have been me, and my heart just broke for you.

There have been lots of suggestions over what you should do about this situation. My advice - at the very least, get yourself some good legal counsel, even if it costs you a few hundred dollars. Don't try to figure this out on your own, but please do something, just so you know you tried every avenue to make it right. It all comes down to the scammer was wrong and PP was wrong (although PP was within its legal rights to ask her to destroy the fake bag). The question is who gets sued and how? I'm thinking more and more that it's time for a class action lawsuit against PP for violation of their seller protection policy.

Best of luck with this mess, sweetie. We're here for you!

 

[Vegas Long Legs]

Paypal should require a third party to destroy items. There are companies around that do this as part of their business offereings. They give a description of what they are destroying, the date etc. & the method used. This is only 'fair.'

 

[kristie]

Having read these types of threads for a while, we've all been made aware that Paypal doesn't take that as evidence as they believe it's too easily faked which is why I think (and have said this on HarperCassidy's thread) that if you're selling something that's higher value, it may be worth it to have UPS pack it up for you for a fee so that you have third party verification. In any case, you'll have to convince the court that what you actually SENT was the authentic bag - not just what you had in your possession to authenticate -- even if you're suing Paypal. Really, my heart goes out to you but I think everyone who sells anything over eBay and uses Paypal should approach EACH sale with the mindset of protecting yourself when something goes wrong.

So the guy at the UPS store knows how to authenticate Birkins??? This is why that does not makes sense. The argument with the buyer was not that she did not receive the bag, she is claiming it is a fake one and I know it is not. How would having a third party like UPS vouch for it's authenticity??? They can't.

 

[kristie]

Paypal should require a third party to destroy items. There are companies around that do this as part of their business offereings. They give a description of what they are destroying, the date etc. & the method used. This is only 'fair.'

At an absolute MINIMUM, they should at least have the bag sent to an actual third party authenticator to be inspected in person and match THAT bag with the craftsman stamp pics, etc. from the auction, seller's pics, etc. ESPECIALLY since I am a very well established seller of H and have NEVER had a claim filed against me.

I realize no method will be foolproof such as if the buyer sent a fake bag in to be authenticated but at least it is SOMETHING where it is not just the buyer sending in some BS paperwork that the bag is fake.

That is what baffles me.

I sent a lot of verifiable info to PP including third party validated authentication on letterhead, a receipt, photos, etc. and yet the buyer's BS paperwork is stronger than mine?

I mean they REALLY think a scammer cares about signing an affidavit that they claim to have destroyed the bag????

 

[SchnauzerCrazy]

So the guy at the UPS store knows how to authenticate Birkins??? This is why that does not makes sense. The argument with the buyer was not that she did not receive the bag, she is claiming it is a fake one and I know it is not. How would having a third party like UPS vouch for it's authenticity??? They can't.

No, the guy at the UPS store can vouch that you sent X bag to the buyer and you have evidence that X bag was authentic because you had previously had it authenticated so that you can prove it was the same bag in both instances. They're not vouching for authenticity, they're vouching that you sent a bag that was let's say black with white stitching and had a security tag on it and that was the same bag that had been previously authenticated... So that you can prove to the court you sent the same bag.

I'm just trying to be helpful to you and to others

 

[harvardalumna]

Although I have nothing of value to add, I just want to say that I feel very bad you're in this situation, OP, and upset for you, so I can only imagine how you must be feeling.

Wishing you the very Best of Luck in whichever path you choose to take from hereon.
Huge Hugs.

 

[gidramom]

I would give a shot at suing PayPal. Your lawyer can make a request for all the document including the buyer's authentication and how PayPal conducted the investigation (I bet they didn't do anything). So there could be a chance that your case will be re-investigated. I really really want PayPal to pay for this damage.

 

[kristie]

No, the guy at the UPS store can vouch that you sent X bag to the buyer and you have evidence that X bag was authentic because you had previously had it authenticated so that you can prove it was the same bag in both instances. They're not vouching for authenticity, they're vouching that you sent a bag that was let's say black with white stitching and had a security tag on it and that was the same bag that had been previously authenticated... So that you can prove to the court you sent the same bag.

I'm just trying to be helpful to you and to others

I realize you are trying to help but the scenario you gave still provides me with nothing more than I already had. What if a seller was a scammer and sent a fake bag that looked the same as the real one and put a security tag on it and told the UPS guy it was real?? It really offers nothing as far as PP is concerned. They told me ANY time a buyer files for a non authentic item they cannot risk it if the buyer shows even the slightest proof of non authenticity..... Even if she got a fake bag authenticated. I did EVERYTHING and BEYOND what a seller could have done to protect myself and I STILL was scammed. I have spoken with other H resellers and they too, lost out BIG when they accepted Paypal for Birkins. That is the exact reason they only accept wire transfers now.

I DO agree that the third party verification containing a letter of authenticity for THAT bag enclosed with the box would help in court..... Just not with paypal.

 

[jences]

.

 

[jences]

Look, I'm honestly not trying to sound callous but having been on this part of the forum for a few months, I can't imagine NOT having some kind of record to prove my side of the story. And I never said you have to prove it to Paypal - I read the thread and I understood that Paypal has already sided with the buyer. Having read these types of threads for a while, we've all been made aware that Paypal doesn't take that as evidence as they believe it's too easily faked which is why I think (and have said this on HarperCassidy's thread) that if you're selling something that's higher value, it may be worth it to have UPS pack it up for you for a fee so that you have third party verification. In any case, you'll have to convince the court that what you actually SENT was the authentic bag - not just what you had in your possession to authenticate -- even if you're suing Paypal. Really, my heart goes out to you but I think everyone who sells anything over eBay and uses Paypal should approach EACH sale with the mindset of protecting yourself when something goes wrong.

Very excellent point indeed!

 

[SchnauzerCrazy]

I realize you are trying to help but the scenario you gave still provides me with nothing more than I already had. What if a seller was a scammer and sent a fake bag that looked the same as the real one and put a security tag on it and told the UPS guy it was real?? It really offers nothing. I did EVERYTHING and BEYOND what a seller could have done to protect myself and I STILL was scammed. I have spoken with other H resellers and they too, lost out BIG when they accepted Paypal for Birkins. That is the exact reason they only accept wire transfers now.

I think you're missing my point -- I don't want to argue with you and I understand you're upset but here is what I'm trying to say: in order to prove your case to the judge, you have to convince him that what you sent was authentic. The burden of proof is less in a civil case than a criminal case which is why if your bag had the same security tag on it when you took it to be authenticated and when you had sent it - and you made sure to document the specifics of the Birkin that are unique to each bag in both instances - then you make a convincing case that what you sent and what the buyer consequently received was the authentic bag. You're not relying on UPS to authenticate the bag - you're relying on them to verify what it was you actually sent. That's all I'm trying to say.

 

[jences]

I think you're missing my point -- I don't want to argue with you and I understand you're upset but here is what I'm trying to say: in order to prove your case to the judge, you have to convince him that what you sent was authentic. The burden of proof is less in a civil case than a criminal case which is why if your bag had the same security tag on it when you took it to be authenticated and when you had sent it - and you made sure to document the specifics of the Birkin that are unique to each bag in both instances - then you make a convincing case that what you sent and what the buyer consequently received was the authentic bag. You're not relying on UPS to authenticate the bag - you're relying on them to verify what it was you actually sent. That's all I'm trying to say.

Yes!!! I totally get it!!! Does UPS actually do that? Do they package the item themselves? And if they do, can you ask them to make note of certain things like a security tag? Would they just retain it to memory (and hope you don't have to summon the poor chap for a court case down the road) or could this be documented somehow at the time of?

 

[jences]

Does anyone know if paypal has ever been sued before? and lost?