WARNING, Paypal just made me lose $20 THOUSAND dollars from a scamming buyer

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#1,141
BeenBurned - this is the language from what you quoted in red: all a seller needs to prove is the item they shipped.

Again - I am not saying anything about a seller having a responsibility to make sure an item is shipped and received by the buyer - I know that - but YOU ARE THE ONE MISSING the details of my comments. Its the item itself - what goes inside the package - not receipt of the package itself.

I still say and I know the "group" is going to think I'm wrong - but - I still say - there may be more to this story than meets the eye. Everyone is commenting on what the seller said and taking that to be the facts. PP does investigate, they do ask the seller to send them information or gives them the option to send them info (I've done it once or twice myself), and I've won - even on the one chargeback claim I had.

Common sense says for that amount of money PP should have taken greater effort, I think too they knew that as well. For all I know the bag was not authentic, we are only hearing one side of the story - not the side from the buyer but the seller.

If you want to get angry or upset with me - fine - but as I said before - there are 3 sides to every story - the victim, the wrongdoer, and the truth.

So there.
 
#1,142
ILUVLOUIS2010 said:
BeenBurned - this is the language from what you quoted in red: all a seller needs to prove is the item they shipped.

Again - I am not saying anything about a seller having a responsibility to make sure an item is shipped and received by the buyer - I know that - but YOU ARE THE ONE MISSING the details of my comments. Its the item itself - what goes inside the package - not receipt of the package itself.

I still say and I know the "group" is going to think I'm wrong - but - I still say - there may be more to this story than meets the eye. Everyone is commenting on what the seller said and taking that to be the facts. PP does investigate, they do ask the seller to send them information or gives them the option to send them info (I've done it once or twice myself), and I've won - even on the one chargeback claim I had.

Common sense says for that amount of money PP should have taken greater effort, I think too they knew that as well. For all I know the bag was not authentic, we are only hearing one side of the story - not the side from the buyer but the seller.

If you want to get angry or upset with me - fine - but as I said before - there are 3 sides to every story - the victim, the wrongdoer, and the truth.

So there.
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Common sense is not part of PP's vocabulary. I'm sorry but as BeenBurned said, you are wrong on a lot of levels.

That said, please - let's get back to topic. I want to read updates from the OP. Not arguing.
 
#1,143
I have gone through this whole thread just tonight (certainly did not read every post) and I cannot say I am surprised.

I have been scammed by buyers twice and PP does not consider anything from the seller's side (mine were ebay transactions). The told me that they do not look at any evidence provided by the seller, they do not look into the buyer's feedback to see if there is a history of scamming, they don't look into anything.

I hate PP and ebay.

I'm in Canada so do not have all the other acceptable payment options that Americans have available to them. It sucks.

I'm glad to hear Chase got the OP her money back and I hope this does not affect her credit.
 
#1,146
lizmil said:
I remember reading that PP had a warehouse (think it was in Texas) that "returns" for fakes, and maybe returns for other reasons were sent. What did they do with all this stuff? Had a sale and sold it!

That just put the fakes back in circulation. I think the various suits put an end to the practice and now they tell buyers to destroy the fakes. (as we have seen w/o adequate review first)

Kristie, any good news?
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Nope.......just receiving 4-6 calls from Paypal per day stating that my account is negative..........annoying, yes. Not as annoying as losing $11K so I just do not answer them.
 
#1,147
ILUVLOUIS2010 said:
PP does investigate, they do ask the seller to send them information or gives them the option to send them info (I've done it once or twice myself), and I've won - even on the one chargeback claim I had.
Click to expand...
Actually, I am sorry but you are dead wrong. The two supervisors I spoke with at PP told me verbatim, "We never asked you to send us anything, on SNAD cases, we only require documentation from the BUYER not the seller."

NTM you state that PP would have "common sense" when dealing with this high dollar item. If you did some research online about PP being writhe with fraud, you would quickly realize that with PP, common sense NEVER applies.

There was just another TPFer that posted this exact same scenario with a Mulberry bag.
 
#1,148
PayPal is a publicly traded company. The Enron/Arthur Andersen/Tyco/WorldCom/Global Crossing law is called the Sarbanes–Oxley Act 2002. It is for publicly traded companies that falsify their #'s to increase their stock prices to their investors. This act applies all the way down to the employee on lowest rung on the company ladder. Whether they are aware of the act or not, they are still bound by it. It holds the CEOs/CFOs personally accountable with up to $5M in fines and 20 years in the clink.

The Public Company Accounting Oversight Board is in charge of investigating and enforcing potential S-O cases. As previously mentioned, the SEC, FTC, your state AG, and your legislators will want to know. Additionally, the IRS will probably also want to know about the extra $ PP is making.

Side note: Many years ago, I had to send a 'nasty-gram' to a company who was apparently incompetent in accounting at all levels. It worked - they stopped harassing me to pay $ I did not owe them.
 
#1,149
kristie said:
Actually, I am sorry but you are dead wrong. The two supervisors I spoke with at PP told me verbatim, "We never asked you to send us anything, on SNAD cases, we only require documentation from the BUYER not the seller."

NTM you state that PP would have "common sense" when dealing with this high dollar item. If you did some research online about PP being writhe with fraud, you would quickly realize that with PP, common sense NEVER applies.

There was just another TPFer that posted this exact same scenario with a Mulberry bag.
Click to expand...

i think PP is useless.
i was scammed as a buyer once....PP didn't help.
i am glad you got your 11K back!
 
#1,150
kristie said:
Nope.......just receiving 4-6 calls from Paypal per day stating that my account is negative..........annoying, yes. Not as annoying as losing $11K so I just do not answer them.
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Kristie, once I received a letter that my $90 was sent to collections, I followed the advice that one of the TPF'ers posted in your thread about a "cease and desist" letter. The phone calls stopped and the letters have stopped. I recently got an e-mail from Paypal stating they were "closing my account per my request" and if I wanted to re-open, please contact them. I am now checking my credit to see if and how the $90 affected it. This has been on-going since January! All over $90!

I can only imagine how you are being treated since the amount in dispute is much higher. There has been some really good advice given on this thread and some very helpful TPF'ers reaching out to help me with my dispute. I hope this gets sorted out for you since it is an added frustration in life that I am sure you can live without.
 
#1,152
Moon2020 said:
PayPal is a publicly traded company. The Enron/Arthur Andersen/Tyco/WorldCom/Global Crossing law is called the Sarbanes–Oxley Act 2002. It is for publicly traded companies that falsify their #'s to increase their stock prices to their investors. This act applies all the way down to the employee on lowest rung on the company ladder. Whether they are aware of the act or not, they are still bound by it. It holds the CEOs/CFOs personally accountable with up to $5M in fines and 20 years in the clink.

The Public Company Accounting Oversight Board is in charge of investigating and enforcing potential S-O cases. As previously mentioned, the SEC, FTC, your state AG, and your legislators will want to know. Additionally, the IRS will probably also want to know about the extra $ PP is making.

Side note: Many years ago, I had to send a 'nasty-gram' to a company who was apparently incompetent in accounting at all levels. It worked - they stopped harassing me to pay $ I did not owe them.
Click to expand...

I don't really think Sarbanes Oxley would really apply here. That's more for manipulating accounting information etc to dupe stockholders/investors and/or inflate stock prices. I don't really see how what paypal did here violated S.O. in the slightest. (unless someone were to argue that paypal knowingly ruled the wrong way intentionally and then is now trying to cover it up in their accounting records---kinda farfetched kwim?)

However, contacting the FTC, AG, BBB etc is a good idea. I once had to battle a collection agency over some invalid collections that weren't mine and they wouldn't go away (even after countless letters, C&D, DV's etc) until I finally filed complaints with the BBB and FTC and cc'd them. Within days I received responses that they'd be off my reports within 30 days and I'd be left alone. Sure enough, they were gone in less than 30 days.

To OP---I know you want to ignore the calls for now (which there really is no point to answer), but just make sure you start sending letters etc. If you just ignore it eventually these will go to collections (I can't imagine paypal won't with an account so large). Once they go to collections it will get more aggressive and they may even contact your family (likely to start violations, but still not something you want to deal with). Also, once it goes into collections, you are MUCH more likely to get sued. I still think you would win if you were sued, but that's a huge hassle and not something you want to chance. So it may be worth it to send some letters, file some complaints etc (if you haven't already).
 
#1,153
emcosmo1639 said:
I don't really think Sarbanes Oxley would really apply here. That's more for manipulating accounting information etc to dupe stockholders/investors and/or inflate stock prices. I don't really see how what paypal did here violated S.O. in the slightest. (unless someone were to argue that paypal knowingly ruled the wrong way intentionally and then is now trying to cover it up in their accounting records---kinda farfetched kwim?)
Click to expand...

The example nasty-gram that was posted a few pages ago mentioned Enron as an example. My post about S-O was intended as FYI. Sorry for leaving out the context.

I get the impression from reading the scam threads that time and time again on tPF that *bay/PP does this consistently to keep up appearances to their share holders and/or so they don't have to hire more people to actually handle the issues/investigate. The ways in which disputes are resolved sure are not to protect their sellers/buyers and/or do the right thing.

The money and items from the scam cases go somewhere. Are we 100% sure that 100% of the money goes back to the buyer 100% of the time? Where do the items go? (In this thread, the buyer kept the real bag as well as the money.) As far as I know, *bay/PP keep the transaction fees.

I have also read on tPF that there is a boat load of merch that *bay has resold on *bay under different names that has been disputed from previous auctions from private individuals.
 
#1,154
Moon2020 said:
The example nasty-gram that was posted a few pages ago mentioned Enron as an example. My post about S-O was intended as FYI. Sorry for leaving out the context.

I get the impression from reading the scam threads that time and time again on tPF that *bay/PP does this consistently to keep up appearances to their share holders and/or so they don't have to hire more people to actually handle the issues/investigate. The ways in which disputes are resolved sure are not to protect their sellers/buyers and/or do the right thing.

The money and items from the scam cases go somewhere. Are we 100% sure that 100% of the money goes back to the buyer 100% of the time? Where do the items go? (In this thread, the buyer kept the real bag as well as the money.) As far as I know, *bay/PP keep the transaction fees.

I have also read on tPF that there is a boat load of merch that *bay has resold on *bay under different names that has been disputed from previous auctions from private individuals.
Click to expand...

I see what you mean, I think I didn't get where you were going with it originally. I also missed the post with Enron several pages back...I'll have to go back and find it. I still don't think S-O would apply here, but I do think there is plenty of legitimate cause to file many complaints. Paypal is going to ignore a customer writing basic letters or complaining to whoever makes the phone calls/customer "service," but when it gets elevated to higher channels (through BBB, FTC etc) then they can't ignore it. And you are right, shareholders don't want to see things like this (though one case isn't going to be enough to scare them...it would take many).
 
#1,155
emcosmo1639 said:
And you are right, shareholders don't want to see things like this (though one case isn't going to be enough to scare them...it would take many).
Click to expand...


There are many cases of all $ values captured in the pages on tPF.
I wonder if anyone lurking out there has been logging/keeping statistics on the instances.
Perhaps a nice project for a university student to use for a class?
I :love: tPF!
 
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