WARNING, Paypal just made me lose $20 THOUSAND dollars from a scamming buyer

[Love Of My Life]

OP has to sue Paypal in Santa Clara County, CA or Omaha, NE. California law will apply, which may actually be good for OP because California's consumer protection laws are pretty robust.

OP, I hope you sue the everloving sh!+ out of Paypal. At the very least, Paypal was negligent in ordering your property destroyed without having a neutral, trusted third-party authenticator declare it ("it" = the actual bag you sent the buyer, with your security tag attached) counterfeit. In my mind, Paypal is just as much at fault as the scheming scammer. It's downright APPALLING how Paypal operates.

I think others have already pointed this out, but there is nothing the seller could have done in this situation to protect herself from Paypal deciding in favor of the buyer. Even if the seller had filmed a UPS employee packing the box and obtained affidavits from the employee vouching for the packed bag being the same item as the bag that had previously been authenticated, we know--based on what Paypal representatives have told various sellers on tPF--that Paypal only "may consider" such evidence. Which virtually guarantees that Paypal would still decide in favor of the buyer even in the face of such evidence. It might help the seller prove her case in court--where evidence presented by both parties is actually considered--but as far as Paypal goes, it's just a waste of time and money.

this is good to know...

 

[chloehandbags]

This is true, but there is no equivalency here in terms of credibility, which is implied in your statement. One has a known and provable track record in the marketplace, and the other has none at all. To award the trust to the latter, as Paypal did, is obviously a pretty peculiar call.

Yes, that's true.

However, just to play devil's advocate, here...

Firstly, the transaction took place off-eBay (I would be interested to know at whose behest?), so it may have been viewed that the seller, basically, forfeited her right to have her former eBay transactions taken into account, by doing so?

Secondly, some of the most well-known scamming sellers have had a lot of successful transactions on eBay (and have just sprinkled the occasional scam into the mix); so, perhaps the number of successful transactions isn't necessarily viewed as a particularly reliable means of judging?

 

[mmmsc]

I'm sorry if this has been discussed already I did not read all 21 pages but I thought once the transaction goes OFF eBay the buyer loses their buyers protection from paypal

Oh no, PP now has a "protection plan" for buyers, just like Ebay's. That is how my scammer got her $1100. Did a PP SNAD chargeback saying bag was "heavily worn and damaged" -- after receiving it and "loving" it and keeping for 2 1/2 weeks. God only knows what pictures the weasel sent PP for her "case." From another seller she scammed similarly,(where she also changed her mind after carrying and using bag and then filed "heavily worn and damaged" in her PP chargeback), it is suspected she sends doctored pictures to PP. IF she even sent them any pictures at all. I think it is only buyer's protection nowadays on Ebay and PP, nothing for sellers. This is a huge loophole.
But at least I did get my bag back. Even if there was gross white pet hair all inside the bag, I was so thankful to get the bag back.
Kristie is out the bag and the money. Very tough. I hope a lawyer will help her get this figured out.

 

[kristie]

Okay.......I am on the phone with Paypal and they say there is no such THING as an "ambassador."

So now I am waiting to speak with a different asshat supervisor that will probably tell me the same thing the other one did..........

I need my morning coffee while I deal with this.

 

[lizmil]

GRRR!!!!!

Good luck!

 

[kristie]

OMG I want to SCREAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Paypal said they investigate all "counterfeit" claims for the BUYER.

If the buyer states the item is counterfeit, then it is END OF STORY. All they "investigate" is ONE piece of paper that the buyer submitted stating it was inauthentic and DONE, sided with buyer.

I GOT THE SAME ANSWERS I GOT THE OTHER DAY.

They told me it was IRRELEVANT that I submitted ANY documents such as the receipt, letter of authenticity, etc. They said it means NOTHING and it was the "COST OF DOING BUSINESS" that I lost $10K.

UN-FU#%&*G believable.

They refuse to acknowledge that the buyer was a scammer and they said over and over it was the, "cost of doing business and you will not be recovering your funds through Paypal."

 

[BittyMonkey]

OMG I want to SCREAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Paypal said they investigate all "counterfeit" claims for the BUYER.

If the buyer states the item is counterfeit, then it is END OF STORY. All they "investigate" is ONE piece of paper that the buyer submitted stating it was inauthentic and DONE, sided with buyer.

I GOT THE SAME ANSWERS I GOT THE OTHER DAY.

They told me it was IRRELEVANT that I submitted ANY documents such as the receipt, letter of authenticity, etc. They said it means NOTHING and it was the "COST OF DOING BUSINESS" that I lost $10K.

UN-FU#%&*G believable.

They refuse to acknowledge that the buyer was a scammer and they said over and over it was the, "cost of doing business and you will not be recovering your funds through Paypal."

I hope you got those people's names.

Write down that conversation as close to word for word, especially that they take the buyer at their word.

IF you have no legal recourse, I suggest writing to The Consumerist. (I wouldn't do prior to getting a legal consult). Internet shame goes a long way these days.

 

[meandmylouis]

Okay.......I am on the phone with Paypal and they say there is no such THING as an "ambassador."

So now I am waiting to speak with a different asshat supervisor that will probably tell me the same thing the other one did..........

I need my morning coffee while I deal with this.

Kristie,
Do you have your appointed Paypal Account Manager? I understood you made over 100K last year, I believe you should have one. And she/he should be on your side, taking care your selling issues.

 

[harlem_cutie]

I am so sorry for your loss Kristie. My heart sinks everytime I read another one of these threads. I hope you find some justice and most importantly get your money back. It seems like the only option left is to sue Paypal for lack of due diligence or something along those lines. How frustrating and sickening!

as an aside, Paypal seems completely worthless for selling any item that you cannot afford to take a loss from. What is the alternative though? Only accepting payment by wire transfer or money order?

 

[finzup]

OK you should now do a professional e-mail blast to the head honcho's over at paypal.. I found this website with their email addresses
http://www.screw-paypal.com/paypal_contact_information.html#paypaladdresses

compose a letter with details, and what you want from paypal (i.e. you want your $11k back) and send to every name on that list. Nevermind if their job doesn't seem related.. just send to everyone...

 

[thepoppet]

Yes, that's true.

However, just to play devil's advocate, here...

Firstly, the transaction took place off-eBay (I would be interested to know at whose behest?), so it may have been viewed that the seller, basically, forfeited her right to have her former eBay transactions taken into account, by doing so?

Secondly, some of the most well-known scamming sellers have had a lot of successful transactions on eBay (and have just sprinkled the occasional scam into the mix); so, perhaps the number of successful transactions isn't necessarily viewed as a particularly reliable means of judging?

Hi Chloe,

The OP stated earlier that it was at the behest of the buyer that the sale was done off Ebay. She said that she had the bag up with no buyers, so took it off to rest it a few cycles with plans to relist it at another time. But that the buyer, who had it on her watch list, contacted her to buy it while it was no longer listed.

Also, I think people are asking why PayPal didn't take her PayPal reputation into account, not her Ebay one. Because the OP sold over 100K in the last year, using PP as the way of paying, with no chargebacks or disputes. While the buyer had never used PP before and so did not have a reliable reputation with PP.

 

[cheermom09]

Wow!!!! I am SO sorry this is happening to you.


*hugs* to you.

 

[kristie]

Also, I think people are asking why PayPal didn't take her PayPal reputation into account, not her Ebay one. Because the OP sold over 100K in the last year, using PP as the way of paying, with no chargebacks or disputes. While the buyer had never used PP before and so did not have a reliable reputation with PP.

They said my history with them was IRRELEVANT because the buyer submitted a PIECE OF PAPER saying the bag was not authentic and they cannot risk a CHARGEBACK!! That is what this is all about. PAYPAL cannot stand to lose $11K but I can, right?????

 

[kristie]

Kristie,
Do you have your appointed Paypal Account Manager? I understood you made over 100K last year, I believe you should have one. And she/he should be on your side, taking care your selling issues.

No, I have never heard of that

 

[thepoppet]

They said my history with them was IRRELEVANT because the buyer submitted a PIECE OF PAPER saying the bag was not authentic and they cannot risk a CHARGEBACK!! That is what this is all about. PAYPAL cannot stand to lose $11K but I can, right?????

Yes, that's exactly what it's about. As was pointed out in Harper's thread, it's only about their bottom line. A billion dollar corporation can't afford to lose 11k, but an individual can. What BS. What I wonder then is why go through the whole ruse of pretending to mediate a dispute?

PayPal has zero seller protection for SNAD. They told me that on the phone. The only protect sellers from INR cases where there is a tracking number that shows delivery to the address PP says ok to ship to. That's it. The rest is at your own risk.

PP should not be mediating disputes anyway, as far as I'm concerned. That should not be their business. And it wouldn't be if they didn't fear losing money through chargebacks.

Someone, maybe you?, will eventually sue them. They will eventually be called on out on this at some point. I hope you talk to a lawyer. I'm so sorry this has happened. I can imagine how devastated you must feel.