WARNING, Paypal just made me lose $20 THOUSAND dollars from a scamming buyer

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#286
kristie said:
In an ideal world where things are done fairly and logically, yes.

I am anxious to speak with an attorney but I am concerned with valid reasoning. In a civil case, the burden of proof will be on ME as the person who sold and shipped the bag, to PROVE the bag I had authenticated and a receipt, photos, etc of, is the one I put in a box and SENT to her.

The "evidence" being the bag, is "gone" since the buyer will say she destroyed my "fake" bag per paypal policy.

Scary but a very valid concern.
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You need to find out who told the Buyer she could destroy the bag. You may be able to make out a claim for spoilation of evidence - the bag was deliberately destroyed, thus depriving you of the ability to prove it was authentic. Spoilation is a separate tort in Calif. but I haven't read up on all of the elements of it in quite a long time, I must admit!
 
#288
To all the lawyers here...a curious question for you. Whose law rules in this case? Where OP is from? Where the "buyer" (thief, more like it) is from? US vs Canada? Or does it matter? Laws surrounding spoiling of personal property, destruction of inauthentic items, is this international law or something? Is this some sort of law, the ability to destroy something that deemed inauthentic?
 
#289
holy crap, i cannot believe this happened. i'm hoping for a happy ending for you OP. maybe that b*tch will have the bag stolen from her. dear god, some people....
 
#290
Just googled it. Maybe Paypal has a case for asking/requesting/whatever the seller to destroy the item. I'm no lawyer but I've been reading up on counterfeit and trademark infringement laws and maybe it's allowed. Of course, the onus is on the buyer to prove this is fake. In 2008, major designers sued ebay and won for counterfeit laws. Kate Spade hires her own in-house "detectives" to scour internet in search of fakes, which are then removed because her detectives are experts, obviously well trained. The buyer would have to proof that it was fake...and believe me, up here, there's no one. Unless the buyer is a member of the tPF. Scary.
 
#291
I am so sorry to hear about this, OP. I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

As to those asking about having the UPS Store pack your item: I did that for an expensive LV I sold. I filmed the entire process including the couple who did the packing and rung me up. We had a long extensive conversation about it as well. I did this after confirming with PayPal that it would be evidence they would consider. (Who knows to what extent they consider it, but for me it was for evidence in case I needed to take my buyer to court if they proved dishonest.)

But as I said in Harper's thread and my own, you should know that the insurance they sell there is different than regular UPS insurance and therefore much more expensive. This will make a significant addition to your shipping charges.
 
#292
That's so so terrible! I guess the moral of the story is---don't accept bids from buyers who have little or no feedback (either that or don't sell on ebay all together! I had no idea their policies were so loose!)
 
#295
Luvbolide said:
You need to find out who told the Buyer she could destroy the bag. You may be able to make out a claim for spoilation of evidence - the bag was deliberately destroyed, thus depriving you of the ability to prove it was authentic. Spoilation is a separate tort in Calif. but I haven't read up on all of the elements of it in quite a long time, I must admit!
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Excellent point.

OP, I wonder if a lawyer would be willing to send PayPal a demand for you? There are lawyers who will do work on an hourly basis, and you'd be surprised how quickly they could do something like this.

I'm also wondering if this is the kind of thing homeowners insurance might make restitution for. My policy covers some odd things. Might be worth a call to your agent, if you have a policy.

Scammers suck. Sorry I can't be of more help.
 
#296
gidramom said:
The buyer actually sent you an email saying she loved it. Does this mean she acknowledged that she had received the bag just as advertised?
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I don't think so, really?

As (speaking in general) a buyer could receive a superfake, love it and then, only later, realise that it could be a fake.

Same thing could happen with a SNAD condition bag - buyer could receive a bag, email that she loves it and then, only later, after closer examinaton, notice that it has some sort of flaw.

So, I don't think it really means anything, either way, TBH? :shrugs:
 
#297
OP very sorry about this mess :(

did you have a chance to contact the paypal ambassador? I would keep going up the paypal chain and perhaps you can get someone higher up that will see the crazyness of the pp decision.

I hope that somehow this has a favorable outcome for you...
 
#298
chloehandbags said:
I don't think so, really?

As (speaking in general) a buyer could receive a superfake, love it and then, only later, realise that it could be a fake.

Same thing could happen with a SNAD condition bag - buyer could receive a bag, email that she loves it and then, only later, after closer examinaton, notice that it has some sort of flaw.

So, I don't think it really means anything, either way, TBH? :shrugs:
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What I meant was the buyer received the bag just as photographed. Because some people were talking about having shipper pack your package to prevent a claim that you did ship something different. I'm sure OP photographed every details, so that if the buyer received a wrong bag, she would notice right away, especially for Hermes.
 
#300
I think the odds the buyer actually destroyed the bag is close to nil. Can you hire a private detective in canada to picture her with the bag? If they get close ups that show any scuffs or such you documented in your listing it could prove she didn't destroy the bag.

I have no clue what that would cost though.
 
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