Vintage Coach Photos & Chat

[Catbird9]

Those are interesting points. But one might consider more than just undercutting company sales. Coach might not care for distribution of its cartouche logo, aka the brand, in this manner. The point is, who is it up to decide?
As far as finding out if Coach is fine with this, one who would like to copy vintage catalogue images for sale, would only need to request a written agreement from Coach, as noted on their website.

Yup, interesting conversation!
I'm not saying that the company would like the sale of digitized vintage catalogs. They wouldn't agree to it. It'd be up to a court to decide about distribution and fair use. However, things like this rarely get that far. The annoyed company will send a cease and desist letter, and the other company or individual will just stop. I'd really like to see a decision on something like this.
Personally, I feel that people who want to collect vintage items should be able to access the information from vintage catalogs.

Since AFAIK there's never been a test case, we may never know. Which is fine with me. But over the years we've seen Coach (and plenty of other companies too) try really pissy intimidation tactics to "protect" their market and what they claim are their legal rights, so after all these years, not much would surprise me. Let the lawyers thrash it out in the courtroom if it comes to that. Since the sale of old digitized catalogs has no provable economic impact on Coach, I doubt if a judge would waste much time on it.

Meanwhile I'll just browse through the trademark and copyright pages at www.tabberone.com (speaking of intimidation tactics) and try to figure out what would happen, if anything. But that can wait until tomorrow.

There are literally hundreds of cases where courts have protected copyrights. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. I understand you may want to access the catalogs, but the seller is profiting off Coach's copyright. Coach spent thousands of dollars producing those catalogs and the pictures and copy in those catalogs. Copyright law makes it illegal for someone else to profit from that effort.

Think about pictures you produce to sell your bags on eBay. You take effort to produce those images. Imagine someone else stealing those pictures and then selling them for profit. You wouldn't be happy about that, would you? That is what copyright law is designed to protect.

I am fascinated by this conversation, I am no lawyer either but my pictures have been used by others on Ebay and they have been taken down when I reported them, same on Mercari, I definitely was not happy.

And regarding Coach..... I recall the time I was part of the Fan Club of a very famous rock band. Some people were taking pictures at the concerts and then selling them, they claimed they were "their pictures" because they took them, but this band had their name and image copyrighted, so it was a no go, the pictures were taken down by Ebay. So wouldn't be with Coach a similar thing here? Simply that simple? LOL

LOL, right! Nothing is simple in copyright law (or any other area of the law). There are always gray areas. Hence, the legal profession, to argue and decide all the shades of gray.

For example, are the catalogs in the public domain? Coach's rights to their old paper catalogs may have expired, been forfeited, waived, or may be inapplicable.

Did the person who scanned and organized the old catalogs get permission from Coach to scan the catalogs for their personal use? Are they entitled to share their work product with Coach fans? Are they allowed to be compensated for their time?

I don't know. Hence, lawyers.

As consumers, our interest in vintage Coach probably doesn't "amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world" (Casablanca, 1942, Warner Bros. Pictures, Inc., quoted under fair use doctrine) as far as Coach is concerned. If Coach cared about digitized images from their old catalogs being propagated on USB drives embedded in plastic bracelets, they would have sent the seller and eBay cease and desist notices by now. For that matter, they could digitize and distribute the old catalogs themselves if they thought it would benefit them.

 

[Hyacinth]

I am fascinated by this conversation, I am no lawyer either but my pictures have been used by others on Ebay and they have been taken down when I reported them, same on Mercari, I definitely was not happy.

And regarding Coach..... I recall the time I was part of the Fan Club of a very famous rock band. Some people were taking pictures at the concerts and then selling them, they claimed they were "their pictures" because they took them, but this band had their name and image copyrighted, so it was a no go, the pictures were taken down by Ebay. So wouldn't be with Coach a similar thing here? Simply that simple? LOL

Maybe Ebay works on the principle that celebrity images "belong" to the celebrity and they'll take down every one that's reported whether it's of the Big Be or some temporarily popular actress or other "celeb". Of course that doesn't explain how all those papa-ROT-sies' ambush pics get published in so many supermarket check-out stand rags.

And being an Antiques Roadshow junkie especially the UK version, I wonder about people who come to the Roadshow with handfuls of old photos of bands that they took way back when at a concert or live TV broadcast or club, especially of the Beatles. The appraisers always tell them that if they're the ones who took the original photos, they're the copyright holder and can publish or sell them. Of course I realize the the surviving band members probably aren't going to put up much of a stink if they do, but it seems like the rules covering even a small part of a nation's copyright and trademark regulations can get pretty complicated.

 

[valv54]

Finally got a hold of a gray bag, nice little NYC small flap (I think that's what its called)

 

[whateve]

LOL, right! Nothing is simple in copyright law (or any other area of the law). There are always gray areas. Hence, the legal profession, to argue and decide all the shades of gray.

For example, are the catalogs in the public domain? Coach's rights to their old paper catalogs may have expired, been forfeited, waived, or may be inapplicable.

Did the person who scanned and organized the old catalogs get permission from Coach to scan the catalogs for their personal use? Are they entitled to share their work product with Coach fans? Are they allowed to be compensated for their time?

I don't know. Hence, lawyers.

As consumers, our interest in vintage Coach probably doesn't "amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world" (Casablanca, 1942, Warner Bros. Pictures, Inc., quoted under fair use doctrine) as far as Coach is concerned. If Coach cared about digitized images from their old catalogs being propagated on USB drives embedded in plastic bracelets, they would have sent the seller and eBay cease and desist notices by now. For that matter, they could digitize and distribute the old catalogs themselves if they thought it would benefit them.

Selling paper catalogs is legal. Copying or digitizing images and selling them over and over again is not legal.
You make an interesting point about whether their rights to paper catalogs have expired. I think it takes a long time for copyrights to expire. Since Coach is still in business, I imagine their lawyers keep everything current.

 

[aerinha]

Selling paper catalogs is legal. Copying or digitizing images and selling them over and over again is not legal.
You make an interesting point about whether their rights to paper catalogs have expired. I think it takes a long time for copyrights to expire. Since Coach is still in business, I imagine their lawyers keep everything current.

Copyrights expire in 10 years if not renewed by the author or publisher or author’s estate which is how books become public domain.

 

[Ireiki4u]

Maybe Ebay works on the principle that celebrity images "belong" to the celebrity and they'll take down every one that's reported whether it's of the Big Be or some temporarily popular actress or other "celeb". Of course that doesn't explain how all those papa-ROT-sies' ambush pics get published in so many supermarket check-out stand rags.

And being an Antiques Roadshow junkie especially the UK version, I wonder about people who come to the Roadshow with handfuls of old photos of bands that they took way back when at a concert or live TV broadcast or club, especially of the Beatles. The appraisers always tell them that if they're the ones who took the original photos, they're the copyright holder and can publish or sell them. Of course I realize the the surviving band members probably aren't going to put up much of a stink if they do, but it seems like the rules covering even a small part of a nation's copyright and trademark regulations can get pretty complicated.

Years ago my ex hubby & myself had a Subaru repair shop. We took huge business away from the dealer. Our name was Independent Subaru Repair (ISR). Subaru ended up suing us for using their name. We complied, and changed Subaru to Service. What the lawyer did tell us , is that if we use the words “specializing in Subaru” there is nothing they can do.
So we did, in the end Subaru loved us all the “big high ups” from Japan would come and visit us.

 

[Hyacinth]

Years ago my ex hubby & myself had a Subaru repair shop. We took huge business away from the dealer. Our name was Independent Subaru Repair (ISR). Subaru ended up suing us for using their name. We complied, and changed Subaru to Service. What the lawyer did tell us , is that if we use the words “specializing in Subaru” there is nothing they can do.
So we did, in the end Subaru loved us all the “big high ups” from Japan would come and visit us.

That says a lot about the company, that at least part of Management understood and appreciated their customers being well taken care of, even if it WASN'T by the selling dealer! A lousy dealer who doesn't take care of his customer's problems or screws them over in the Service Department can give a manufacturer a black eye, especially in smaller towns. And because dealerships are almost all franchised, there isn't a lot the factory can do to correct them unless they've violated their franchise agreement.

 

[Lake Effect]

I'd for sure make sure that bag has no mold. I used to live in that area and where the seller is they had floods in the "antique" area of the city, rebuilt and then had another one.

Thanks for the tip I would most likely buy that if it was $20 or less at flea market, thrift shop. I do quarantine new purchases with a hazy history

 

[aerinha]

Venting here. Recently missed out on a vintage Coach and found someone with multiples of it willing to sell. Go through the whole picture and question game and she has avoided all price inquiries because she wants to play Price is Right. I hate this. Just tell me want say $350 and maybe I will counter at $300 or say $600 and I will say no, but don’t make me guess.

Anyway I based my offer on what I lost the first bag at plus extra for better condition. Honestly I would have paid twice my offer but I am NOT going in at twice. Maybe I should have offered higher but my offer was fair especially when it is, don’t hate me, just an old purse at the end of the day. She never responded! We were practically instant messaging, I offer and nothing. Perhaps she thought I wasn’t serious? Really, I just used my eBay experience and offered what they go for when the price isn’t inflated. She can say it’s rare, but she already said she has 3 and I almost won one a week ago...how rare is rare in that case?

 

[valv54]

Venting here. Recently missed out on a vintage Coach and found someone with multiples of it willing to sell. Go through the whole picture and question game and she has avoided all price inquiries because she wants to play Price is Right. I hate this. Just tell me want say $350 and maybe I will counter at $300 or say $600 and I will say no, but don’t make me guess.

Anyway I based my offer on what I lost the first bag at plus extra for better condition. Honestly I would have paid twice my offer but I am NOT going in at twice. Maybe I should have offered higher but my offer was fair especially when it is, don’t hate me, just an old purse at the end of the day. She never responded! We were practically instant messaging, I offer and nothing. Perhaps she thought I wasn’t serious? Really, I just used my eBay experience and offered what they go for when the price isn’t inflated. She can say it’s rare, but she already said she has 3 and I almost won one a week ago...how rare is rare in that case?

What is she trying to say is a "rare" bag lol

 

[aerinha]

What is she trying to say is a "rare" bag lol

United Airline stewardess bag

 

[Minchanka]

I for one, would like to see the Creed on the green City bag.
I need “to see the receipts” on that one

FYI, it’s clearly painted. I tried to do my best taking the picture behind the glass.

What’s interesting, lots of bags there are pebbled leather recreations of the classic designs. I am wondering if there’s were produced specially for this display.

 

[BeenBurned]

Venting here. Recently missed out on a vintage Coach and found someone with multiples of it willing to sell. Go through the whole picture and question game and she has avoided all price inquiries because she wants to play Price is Right. I hate this. Just tell me want say $350 and maybe I will counter at $300 or say $600 and I will say no, but don’t make me guess.

Anyway I based my offer on what I lost the first bag at plus extra for better condition. Honestly I would have paid twice my offer but I am NOT going in at twice. Maybe I should have offered higher but my offer was fair especially when it is, don’t hate me, just an old purse at the end of the day. She never responded! We were practically instant messaging, I offer and nothing. Perhaps she thought I wasn’t serious? Really, I just used my eBay experience and offered what they go for when the price isn’t inflated. She can say it’s rare, but she already said she has 3 and I almost won one a week ago...how rare is rare in that case?

I'm confused.

If you found someone with multiples, I assume they're listed and that there's a price on the listing.

So if the listing has a b.o. option, why not just make an offer?

Keep in mind though that sellers can charge and hold out for whatever amount they want. It doesn't matter (to some sellers) what other sellers sold their items for.

 

[aerinha]

I'm confused.

If you found someone with multiples, I assume they're listed and that there's a price on the listing.

So if the listing has a b.o. option, why not just make an offer?

Keep in mind though that sellers can charge and hold out for whatever amount they want. It doesn't matter (to some sellers) what other sellers sold their items for.

I'm confused.

If you found someone with multiples, I assume they're listed and that there's a price on the listing.

So if the listing has a b.o. option, why not just make an offer?

Keep in mind though that sellers can charge and hold out for whatever amount they want. It doesn't matter (to some sellers) what other sellers sold their items for.

I contacted a seller with a ton of vintage Coach to see if she had any unlisted bags (she has a website this is not eBay) because I was on the hunt. The bags she offered me were not currently listed on the site so there was no price. We emailed back and forth about condition etc. I repeatedly asked her what they cost and she ignored the question until I said which of the bags I wanted. Then instead of saying $350 I will list it for you to buy, she told me to make her an offer and we would go from there. I offered what I thought was a good opener, expecting a counter and she stopped responding when we had been messaging every 5 minutes so obviously she didn’t like my offer and rather than counter she just dropped it either thinking I wasn’t serious or that I was so far off what she wanted we would never meet in the middle

My vent was that she never told me what she wanted and made me guess, then didn’t have the courtesy to say “yeah I want quadruple that” or whatever. Sadly for us both I would have paid triple (not quadruple) but she blew it by not either communicating the price from the start or after my obviously offensive offer.

She can ask whatever she wants for it, but not knowing her ballpark I had only eBay and Posh listings to base my offer on. She can want $1000 for it for all I know but with her having several and them occasionally turning up on eBay and Posh, I doubt she is going to get it as it is not a super rare bag, just hard to find.

 

[BeenBurned]

My vent was that she never told me what she wanted and made me guess, then didn’t have the courtesy to say “yeah I want quadruple that” or whatever. Sadly for us both I would have paid triple (not quadruple) but she blew it by not either communicating the price from the start or after my obviously offensive offer.

Ah, okay....I thought they were listed.

In the seller's defense, I do understand why a seller won't tell you what she wants. I have b.o. in my own listings and will often get a "what's your lowest" question.

Why would any seller respond to that type of question with an answer? Presumably, the seller wants to do the best (for herself) that she can and to tell a buyer her lowest defeats the purpose of the best offer.

I tell buyers to make an offer and generally, I will counter if it's in the ballpark. And in many cases, I do counter with what I think is acceptable to me and a fair price for the buyer.

What I've found is that in cases of lowballs, my reasonable counters are ignored and I never hear back from the buyer.

If that's the case with the seller you're contacting, she might just be ignoring what she considers to be too low an offer and that you likely wouldn't want to pay what she wants.

It's a bummer but since you've found other sellers with the same item for prices you are willing to pay, just be patient and you'll find one to purchase from.

JMHO.