I am a longtime reader here and decided to join when I saw these posts - I have always thought the "authenticators" were vetted by the Forum owners - wow - this is a real shock that they aren't - on the ebay board, I know who the experts are and guess I thought the same on this forum because it has "Authentication" sub-forums. Thank you for opening my eyes - just happened to be looking at the Gucci authenticate this and noticed someone "authenticating" with less than 50 posts!
tPF authenticator discussion
- Thread starter missbanff
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Thanks a lot missbanff. My bag was reviewed by Lee. Purchased it soon after. Super Happy!
Totally agree! We need to remember that getting back to basics, we all have the same goal w/ the AT threads, we all want to keep counterfeits out of the marketplace. Easier to just ignore the requests you prefer not to assist.
I get reported posts for EVERY forum and I always check them out. Unfortunately, we get a LOT and I do make mistakes or sometimes a tech error takes me to the wrong post and I see no rule violation. Please be patient and report it again if you think it's been ignored. We're trying to add a few mods right now in forums that currently have no designated mod, it's very arduous trying to add the right people!
It's cool that you guys notice this. Maybe a year or two ago, someone posted on this other forum I'm on, asking where they can get some Burberry items authenticated. I told the girl she should post in tpf and she said she doesn't want to because:
1. it takes too much work to understand the rules on figuring out when and where she's allowed to post
2. the whole thing is further complicated by the format, etc.
It's really not that complicated; and the rules are there to clarify exactly and specifically which photos are needed to do an accurate authentication. Just posting "hey, authenticate this for me" with a link that may have 4 photos that are blurry or don't show important features wastes everyone's time. The format is quite easy as well. How hard is it to copy/paste a link, item number, seller ID, authentication number, etc.? If it's that hard, then I don't know what to think of how people get through school and paying taxes.
3. people on the purseforum are mean (she said she reads it once in a while but she would never post anything)
Most of the people on tpf are helpful, knowledgeable, and bend over backwards to take time out from their day to answer a question, whether it's the name of a bag, when it was made, or in the AT threads, to look at the auction, zoom in the photos, compare them to their information and accumulation of samples/etc. I have rarely seen a regular member be rude to anyone.
I don't actually know who she is and whether she has an account on purseforum (and it actually sounds like she has been on it and got burned) but i didnt grill her and didn't push further and offered to do it for her. I copied and pasted the format and sent it to her over email and asked her if she can follow the format and send me something i can copy and paste back.
At that time, I've have only just read a couple of the threads that did get pretty bad, but reading those threads never stopped me from participating. But then again, I was also surprised that based on the few more controversial threads i did participate in more recently, it was much tamer and people tried to be a lot nicer than what i had braced myself for.
For the most part, I would never pay for an authentication service unless the brand i'm authenticating endorses that service, and most brands don't because they don't get profit from people buying second hand bags.
I don't see why you'd not ever pay to make sure a bag that costs a lot of money would be authentic? No boutique that sells brand new bags that I know of offers an authentication service for people buying their brand off ebay/craigslist/street vendor/friend of a friend/aunt/grandmother/etc.
The issue for me then is who gets to certify a person to be a trusted authenticator? If there is no agreed upon trusted Root to certify the authenticators, then all services should be taken with a grain of salt because, at the end of the day, they are still just opinions when there is no actual liability on the authenticators when an authentication goes wrong (and there shouldn't be for free authentication).
At the end of the day, MOST authenticators have vast knowledge and know what they are doing. Many also work for companies that provide this service for a fee. I trust the authenticators here, and would not hesitate to ask them to authenticate a bag, even though I've not done so. I sold a couple of bags, and even though I had bought those bags personally brand new from the boutique, I had them authenticated by a fee service to provide peace of mind for my buyer.
The issue is that people don't seem to understand this when they come into tpf for authentication. There is a group of volunteers in each subforum that ranges from being extremely experienced, knowledgeable, and passionate about a brand to people who happen to have a few handbags at home give an opinion based on what they can see in their closet.
Again, most authenticators aren't going by just a few bags in their closet. They have owned and studied the brand for years and have a large working base of knowledge and information at their fingertips, and not just youtube videos or ebay guides (many of which are totally wrong).
At the end of the day, trust can only be fully established if you have endorsements and liability and these endorsements and liability can only be done by the brands itself.
See above comments for finding brands that employ a team of authenticators...if you find one, please enlighten me as that would indeed be something.
And if, by this logic, all authentication are merely opinons that range from super duper credible to not credible at all, I think there needs to be some format for the AT threads to allow for opposing opinions not to be taken personally.
Educated "opinions" or just, "hey that looks okay to me, since I once looked at one of those bags in a store a few years ago."? Once again, most of the respected authenticators know what they are doing, and to question that if you don't have the same knowledge base can appear to be a bit of a not nice thing. If it's done as BB said in a "share the info" kind of way, then that's different, but to question someone who knows what they are doing, and hasn't stated, "I'm going to ask for clarification on this one" then it may not be so appropriate.
Maybe something like, a poster who wants to get something authenticated must fill out a form that asks for the proper format before submission,
The proper format is outlined on the first page of every AT thread.
the people who chooses to authenticate must provide a rationale behind their judgement,
Most are not going to share in an open format what the rationale is, for not wanting to make it even easier for counterfeiters to do their work.
and if another person disagrees, they provide a rationale for the disagreement. This way, instead of giving an answer like "yes it's authentic, because i'm trusted" you have logical appeal as well, which might help make it less personal and ease the emotional opinion battles. This is just an idea. I don't know if this works for all brands and whether or not it would become a problem in the long run for counterfeiting.
Please see responses above in red.
As someone who has devoted a lot of my free time to authentication, I have to say that my goal, and that of the other Hermes authenticators, is to help contributing members avoid buying fakes. I don't feel I have any obligation to help people who resell as a business and can and should pay an authenticator as a cost of doing business if they can't tell authenticity for themselves, or newcomers here only for free authentication, or those who can be rude and abusive, and contribute nothing to the forum.
We have come to that feeling after spending literally years authenticating. When we ignore, we receive abusive PMs or posts. I have been told many times people prefer to get an answer (even if they may not like the answer itself) than to be ignored. We've tried it both ways - answering seems to be preferred and the more polite thing to do.
It may differ in other subs, and that's cool. The culture in the various forums here is different and it's a really great thing about PF, that it isn't all the same. But I think insisting that we all authenticate the same way is not working, and not going to work.
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At the end of the day, MOST authenticators have vast knowledge and know what they are doing. Many also work for companies that provide this service for a fee. I trust the authenticators here, and would not hesitate to ask them to authenticate a bag, even though I've not done so. I sold a couple of bags, and even though I had bought those bags personally brand new from the boutique, I had them authenticated by a fee service to provide peace of mind for my buyer.
Please see responses above in red.
Is that true that tPF members also work as paid authenticators on the side? This seems like a slippery slope for tPF in terms of liability...
I can't speak for anyone else, but the only authenticating I do is here. No paid work for anyone else, no business authentication relationships.
If some authenticators who provide FREE authentications here on their own personal time also have a business which provides this for a fee, it's not a liability on anyone. It's no slippery slope, just someone being helpful on their own dime.
I don't follow the logic. TPF is a specific site, and elsewhere is elsewhere. If a professional authenticator also volunteers services here, I think a "yippee and thank you" is in order.
Not at all. No one is paid to authenticate, nor does anyone pay for authentications here. It's all strictly pro bono. All the more reason that authenticators here deserve a round of applause for putting up with the garbage that comes with it.
:true:
Personally, when I decided that I wanted to help authenticate in the Balenciaga forum, I asked the authenticators with the most posts and experience if that was ok. How I helped was by letting members know if they needed to repost their query with additional pics, links, etc.. I have since asked if I could come on and authenticate and was told that the help would be appreciated, but honestly I feel like I need to devote even more time to watching them work and then jump in. I wouldn't dream of coming on and just assuming that I could authenticate. I respect the experienced authenticators too much to do that. I am posting this as a suggestion for anyone who wants to help, but who might not want to carry (or be able to carry) the full burden of authenticating, there are other ways to be of assistance.
There are many ways of assisting, and you are quite right in that, rainneday. Helping to clear the clutter in the thread, reminding people to READ and post what is asked for in the first page so that someone really can help them, etc. It is a wonderful help that you go in and help clarify posts, and I'm sure every authenticator would appreciate this. I just wish people seeking free authentications would just take the time to read the rules and not just post willy-nilly (I think I got that phrase from my grandmother).
What I find just boggling is that it isn't that hard to read how to post. Why don't people do that? If they read the directions, everything goes smoothly and the threads don't get bogged down with multiple requests without the proper information and they get an answer sooner.
There are many issues here, some of which I alluded to in my response up there in RED, but in addition to helping the regular authenticators, something needs to be done to support them. They deserve respect, not chastisement. They know what they are doing.
I was actually asked by an authenticator to please help, as she must have figured that I knew a little. So I did. I don't know all by any means, but yeah, I know a little. I also saw how quickly when you step in to doing that the PM's start from people who want you to authenticate their item in PM instead of on the board, or why haven't you done it already, etc. People really do have a huge sense of entitlement on those AT threads.
Working in life, I can sadly say the same thing; they just don't read. I think it's time they start, especially if they want free help from others on a forum.
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