tPF authenticator discussion

[platinum_babie]

Please see responses above in red.

I'm not sure you really understood my point...

1. the response was from a girl i dont even know, and this was her perception of tpf. it was more to provide an example to show how outsiders feel about tpf. the fact that there are people who even feel like they're outsiders and not a part of the community, doesn't make people care enough to follow the culture of the community

2. trust is a belief system. to say you are trustworthy doesn't make you trustworthy, epecially if a person doesn't know who you are. A community might establish trust with each other over a period of time based on experience, but you can't expect an outsider to provision the same trust - that's the fundamental reason why there are issues in the AT forums. An outsider doesn't actually know who to trust and why someone should be trusted or should not be trusted. A lot of newbies don't understand why they should or should trust an authenticator on this forum, hence why there are unreasonable and rude requests, and sometimes even finger pointing: they're not a part of the community that has already established the trust with each other. Getting mad at an outsider for not being a part of the community but is taking advantage of the community that welcomes newcomers is paradoxical.

Posting a format at the beginning of the thread doesn't always work. I was suggesting a format where a user is obligated/forced to follow the format. A form to fill out that requires all the information asked.

 

[JustAgUrL]

I am a longtime reader here and decided to join when I saw these posts - I have always thought the "authenticators" were vetted by the Forum owners - wow - this is a real shock that they aren't - on the ebay board, I know who the experts are and guess I thought the same on this forum because it has "Authentication" sub-forums. Thank you for opening my eyes - just happened to be looking at the Gucci authenticate this and noticed someone "authenticating" with less than 50 posts!

well, to be fair, they are not vetted on ebay either.
To be honest, with ebay constantly removing sub-forums, sadly, I am not
so sure the ebay forums will be around in a few years.


From this thread, there looks to be a LOT of people NEW and OLD are noticing newer members with roughly 50 posts, authenticating in different forums.
Understandably this makes a LOT of people very uncomfortable.


ONE thing I want to say, even with this happening, tPF still has the BEST authentication forums on the internet, and the most knowledgeable members
collected in ONE place.

Personally, I think this is the BEST forum for Luxury items on the internet. I would not let a few mis-guided people change my opinion about this forum.

 

[tutushopper]

I'm not sure you really understood my point...

1. the response was from a girl i dont even know, and this was her perception of tpf. it was more to provide an example to show how outsiders feel about tpf. the fact that there are people who even feel like they're outsiders and not a part of the community, doesn't make people care enough to follow the culture of the community

2. trust is a belief system. to say you are trustworthy doesn't make you trustworthy, epecially if a person doesn't know who you are. A community might establish trust with each other over a period of time based on experience, but you can't expect an outsider to provision the same trust - that's the fundamental reason why there are issues in the AT forums. An outsider doesn't actually know who to trust and why someone should be trusted or should not be trusted. A lot of newbies don't understand why they should or should trust an authenticator on this forum, hence why there are unreasonable and rude requests, and sometimes even finger pointing: they're not a part of the community that has already established the trust with each other. Getting mad at an outsider for not being a part of the community but is taking advantage of the community that welcomes newcomers is paradoxical.

Posting a format at the beginning of the thread doesn't always work. I was suggesting a format where a user is obligated/forced to follow the format. A form to fill out that requires all the information asked.

When your response was just "I'm not sure you really understood my point..." I pretty much figured you didn't get mine at all. Now that you've listed your two point reply, I am decidedly sure you didn't get mine at all. Go figure; sometimes people need to read and think. Rules and formats are there for a reason. If people can't follow them, then perhaps they should take their chalk and go to another sidewalk. If they also don't trust an authenticator on a forum, then why on earth would they even go there? Common sense says to just keep on pushing that backspace key. I've not seen authenticators get "rude" or "mad" at requests on the AT threads. We're going to have to agree to disagree about the fundamental problems on the AT threads. If you've not talked with the authenticators nor been in their shoes, I kinda think you don't know why they feel as they do. I could be wrong, frequently am, but that's just how I feel. I do definitely see a paradox in your post, but it may not be the same paradox that you see. Isn't life grand that way?

 

[platinum_babie]

When your response was just "I'm not sure you really understood my point..." I pretty much figured you didn't get mine at all. Now that you've listed your two point reply, I am decidedly sure you didn't get mine at all. Go figure; sometimes people need to read and think. Rules and formats are there for a reason. If people can't follow them, then perhaps they should take their chalk and go to another sidewalk. If they also don't trust an authenticator on a forum, then why on earth would they even go there? Common sense says to just keep on pushing that backspace key. I've not seen authenticators get "rude" or "mad" at requests on the AT threads. We're going to have to agree to disagree about the fundamental problems on the AT threads. If you've not talked with the authenticators nor been in their shoes, I kinda think you don't know why they feel as they do. I could be wrong, frequently am, but that's just how I feel. I do definitely see a paradox in your post, but it may not be the same paradox that you see. Isn't life grand that way?

I think we are in agreement on one point

 

[whateve]

I think a lot of people don't follow the rules because they don't click on the first post in the thread where the rules are. They may not realize there are rules.

The AT thread is hard to find. It isn't always in the same place in each forum. The Coach AT thread is hidden in the Shopping section; newbies often can't find it.

As an authenticator, I'd hate rules that would make authenticating more difficult. For an obvious fake, I'll often explain what makes it obvious, but for others, I don't like to get too specific. When we point out something fake, sometimes the seller will remove the photo that proves it is fake from the listing. For an item that is authentic, what else should I say other than it is authentic? It would be too hard and time consuming to explain how I reached that conclusion.

I have no problem authenticating for newbies. I was a newbie once, requesting authentication. If the authenticators hadn't been so kind, I wouldn't be here today.

 

[mistikat]

I'm not sure you really understood my point...

1. the response was from a girl i dont even know, and this was her perception of tpf. it was more to provide an example to show how outsiders feel about tpf. the fact that there are people who even feel like they're outsiders and not a part of the community, doesn't make people care enough to follow the culture of the community

2. trust is a belief system. to say you are trustworthy doesn't make you trustworthy, epecially if a person doesn't know who you are. A community might establish trust with each other over a period of time based on experience, but you can't expect an outsider to provision the same trust - that's the fundamental reason why there are issues in the AT forums. An outsider doesn't actually know who to trust and why someone should be trusted or should not be trusted. A lot of newbies don't understand why they should or should trust an authenticator on this forum, hence why there are unreasonable and rude requests, and sometimes even finger pointing: they're not a part of the community that has already established the trust with each other. Getting mad at an outsider for not being a part of the community but is taking advantage of the community that welcomes newcomers is paradoxical.

Posting a format at the beginning of the thread doesn't always work. I was suggesting a format where a user is obligated/forced to follow the format. A form to fill out that requires all the information asked.

1. One person who makes comments does not in fact represent the majority of how "people feel about PF". It's one person's opinion. I also don't think it's accurate to say that because someone doesn't know or understand a community, it automatically means they don't care enough to find out. Some do, some don't. Clearly this person didn't. But ... one person.

2. Having spent a lot of years authenticating, I would disagree that trust is the fundamental reason there are issues in the authentication threads. People don't get angry at me because they don't trust me. They get angry or rude when denied an authentication because they didn't post in the correct format, or didn't meet the requirements of the thread, not because they didn't trust the reply. Again, this goes back to someone actually taking even the minimal amount of time to find out what is required when making a request. It's also pretty easy to see who on a thread has the most answers - post count is visible to anyone who clicks. Yes, you could dismiss that by saying, oh no one will check, or they don't know how to check. At some point, the person requesting the information has to take some responsibility for their request, whether that is due diligence on the person they want to buy from, researching the item, or researching the authentication itself. And I don't get mad at an outsider for not being part of the community - we WANT them to become part of the community. And then ask for authentication (and I know I differ from some others here who feel post count shouldn't matter. To me, it's their way of contributing; mine is authenticating). I think the bigger issue here is that regular authenticators don't feel supported when they are abused by newcomers. You would not believe some of the rude, crude and over the top PMs I have had from people who are furious that they are not getting an item authenticated. Entitled doesn't begin to even cover it. I am in a different position from some of the authenticators in that I am also a moderator and can take different actions than they do if a member is out of line. So on that score, though I am not feeling unsupported, I do get my fair share of abuse. It gets really old.

3. I can assure you that no one is going to take the time to fill out a form - they rarely read the format in the first post even when asked to do so directly. That's the actual title of our thread - asking people to please read the first post.

We don't need more authentication rules. It would just be wonderful if people tried to respect the few guidelines we have.

So yeah, respect. I think bottom line, the key is respect. Every one is new at some point. Some lurk more than post. Some post a ton. Some get even more involved. Everyone was a newbie once. But it's not an excuse for rude or bad behaviour.

 

[BeenBurned]

I am a longtime reader here and decided to join when I saw these posts - I have always thought the "authenticators" were vetted by the Forum owners - wow - this is a real shock that they aren't - on the ebay board, I know who the experts are and guess I thought the same on this forum because it has "Authentication" sub-forums. Thank you for opening my eyes - just happened to be looking at the Gucci authenticate this and noticed someone "authenticating" with less than 50 posts!

Many of them are the same people you recognize as the same "experts" you may know from the ebay fashion board.

It may surprise you to find out that ebay doesn't vet its experts either.

For ebay, tPF or any other board where opinions, authentications, suggestions, resolutions, etc. are posted, the venues disclaim any responsibility for what is said. It releases them from any liability.

I was actually asked by an authenticator to please help, as she must have figured that I knew a little. So I did. I don't know all by any means, but yeah, I know a little. I also saw how quickly when you step in to doing that the PM's start from people who want you to authenticate their item in PM instead of on the board, or why haven't you done it already, etc. People really do have a huge sense of entitlement on those AT threads.

Really? in all the years I've been authenticating, I can count on one hand the number of PMs I've received asking for authentications. (I've had other PMs, but not many AT requestss.)

 

[whateve]

Really? in all the years I've been authenticating, I can count on one hand the number of PMs I've received asking for authentications. (I've had other PMs, but not many AT requestss.)

I get them fairly often, maybe one or two a month. They aren't afraid of me!

 

[tutushopper]

Really? in all the years I've been authenticating, I can count on one hand the number of PMs I've received asking for authentications. (I've had other PMs, but not many AT requestss.)

Yes, really. Early on CB told me to just ignore them (she had her PM's turned off as a result of this), and even in the past week when I've done a few, bam go the PM's. Maybe it's a Chanel thing...or who knows. I'm generally pretty much approachable on tpf, answering questions about just about anything. I do have my moments, though. I don't have your talents of sleuthing, but I respect the heck out of you for them and what you've taught me and so many others. We are very lucky to have you here.

 

[storeberry]

2. Having spent a lot of years authenticating, I would disagree that trust is the fundamental reason there are issues in the authentication threads. People don't get angry at me because they don't trust me. They get angry or rude when denied an authentication because they didn't post in the correct format, or didn't meet the requirements of the thread, not because they didn't trust the reply. Again, this goes back to someone actually taking even the minimal amount of time to find out what is required when making a request. It's also pretty easy to see who on a thread has the most answers - post count is visible to anyone who clicks. Yes, you could dismiss that by saying, oh no one will check, or they don't know how to check. At some point, the person requesting the information has to take some responsibility for their request, whether that is due diligence on the person they want to buy from, researching the item, or researching the authentication itself. And I don't get mad at an outsider for not being part of the community - we WANT them to become part of the community. And then ask for authentication (and I know I differ from some others here who feel post count shouldn't matter. To me, it's their way of contributing; mine is authenticating). I think the bigger issue here is that regular authenticators don't feel supported when they are abused by newcomers. You would not believe some of the rude, crude and over the top PMs I have had from people who are furious that they are not getting an item authenticated. Entitled doesn't begin to even cover it. I am in a different position from some of the authenticators in that I am also a moderator and can take different actions than they do if a member is out of line. So on that score, though I am not feeling unsupported, I do get my fair share of abuse. It gets really old.



3. I can assure you that no one is going to take the time to fill out a form - they rarely read the format in the first post even when asked to do so directly. That's the actual title of our thread - asking people to please read the first post.



We don't need more authentication rules. It would just be wonderful if people tried to respect the few guidelines we have.



So yeah, respect. I think bottom line, the key is respect. Every one is new at some point. Some lurk more than post. Some post a ton. Some get even more involved. Everyone was a newbie once. But it's not an excuse for rude or bad behaviour.

Totally agree on your second point. People get angry not when they don't trust the authenticators, it is usually they don't get the FREE authentication they want & get all agitated & aggressive.

I am not an authenticator but I help out in the ATC thread as CB is the only one there & she has no time to keep reminding members to follow rules, READ the first post / her siggy...etc. and yes people don't read, it might be due to the fast pace of life & the "instant"result environment that we speed read everything or worse don't even bother to read at all...

 

[missfiggy]

Yes, really. Early on CB told me to just ignore them (she had her PM's turned off as a result of this), and even in the past week when I've done a few, bam go the PM's. Maybe it's a Chanel thing...or who knows. I'm generally pretty much approachable on tpf, answering questions about just about anything. I do have my moments, though. I don't have your talents of sleuthing, but I respect the heck out of you for them and what you've taught me and so many others. We are very lucky to have you here.

I was authenticating on the Prada AT thread, but I won't do it any more.

I would get pm's when a request on the thread appeared to have been ignored. I would always reply with the one sentence instruction from page 1 - "Please do not pm authenticators." I was getting more than one per week at one stage, so it certainly impressed on me that some people do have a certain sense of entitlement.

But the reason I don't authenticate now is to do with plain good manners, and with one particular brand new poster being just a little too entitled, and basically that was the last straw. This person posted their request without any please or thankyou. I replied with the authentication and that "Please and thankyou are nice". Poster comes back with "Please get off your high horse. Thank you". I'm nearly 60 years old and I don't need that sort of shyte.

If that is the attitude of anyone using a FREE EXPERT SERVICE, then they can all go and get stuffed. Unfortunately the one rotten apple has totally spoiled it for everyone who is nice.

 

[missfiggy]

On the Prada thread we prefer not to specify what it is that makes something authentic or not. We have found that many of the newbie posters are counterfeiters trying to improve their wares. If we tell them how to improve, it is counterproductive to what we would all like to achieve, ie getting rid of fakes.

 

[whateve]

On the Prada thread we prefer not to specify what it is that makes something authentic or not. We have found that many of the newbie posters are counterfeiters trying to improve their wares. If we tell them how to improve, it is counterproductive to what we would all like to achieve, ie getting rid of fakes.

+1 same on Coach, and as I said above, sellers learn how to crop photos so you can't see the things that prove it's fake.

 

[chicinthecity777]

Is that true that tPF members also work as paid authenticators on the side? This seems like a slippery slope for tPF in terms of liability...

Why? Such authenticator run their own business outside TPF and that has nothing to do with TPF.

 

[chicinthecity777]

If some authenticators who provide FREE authentications here on their own personal time also have a business which provides this for a fee, it's not a liability on anyone. It's no slippery slope, just someone being helpful on their own dime.

I don't follow the logic. TPF is a specific site, and elsewhere is elsewhere. If a professional authenticator also volunteers services here, I think a "yippee and thank you" is in order.

Those!