This seller claims she is going to try to sue me...UH...What do you guys think?

[reddianasaur]

Oh that's a big NO NO she will probably report you and the auction will get taken down.

 

[MassLaw15]

So is using someone elses pic grounds for a lawsuit and is it illegal?

YES! I doubt she'll waste her time, energy or money on a lawsuit BUT that doesn't make it ANY less WRONG & ILLEGAL.

Please read eBay's policies. Ghost55 has already posted a partial of them for you.

 

[86leo]

Im sorry..I dont understand..how did I back out of anything will this seller and "not even let her know"

In regards to 86 Leo's post

She has filed a claim with Ebay and says she wants the money she refunded me for the bag sent back to her.

I dont know...do you guys think this is right...I hooked the bag up...cleaned it, sealed it, repaired the loose threads and more

You said:

and finally I said I would accept a partial refund...thinking like 10, 20 dollars tops. She emails me and says she wil refund me 60 bucks. I accept it.

We leave + feedback for eachother.

To me, you made an agreement with her. Guess I just see things differently.

 

[86leo]

Using someone's pictures taken from somewhere else is not against eBay's core policies. It's more like a small infraction and just plain not nice. However, just to be clear, taking someone's pictures is not against the law. If the pictures are not protected by a copyright then there's no claim to be made. Copyright is not ownership. A copyright is associated with a company trade name & that has to be registered to be defended in a court room. Basically, you relinquish control of abstract property once it hits the web. the best thing is to put a watermark on all your pics to make sure if it happens, you can let eBay know and resolve the matter pretty quickly.

Taking someone's pictures is absolutely wrong and against the law.

I have my daughter's picture posted. You absolutely can not just take it and use it how you want. You do not have permission, and I am protected under copyright laws.


You do not need to go to court to obtain a copyright over something. You can, but it is not mandatory. You do need to file papers, etc. to obtain a TRADEMARK (IE. eBay is a Trademark name).


If you write a poem, take a picture, create a graphic, YOU are the owner of that image and you own the copyright of that image.

Another example. I can not take the logo from the Purse Forum and use it for my purpose. Why? Because they are owner of that image and it IS copyrighted to them. Even if they didnt file and pay fees for that right.

What is Copyright?

The U.S. Constitution and the Federal Copyright Act give "copyright" protection to "authors" for their "original works," such as photographs. Among the protections that copyright owners have are the exclusive rights to:

1. Make copies of the work
2. Prepare other works based on the original
3. Distribute copies of the work to the public by sales, rental, lease, or lending
4. To publicly perform and display the work.

These rights are protected by laws which provide for damages and criminal penalties for violations. Both the customer and the lab are subject to the law.
Who Owns What?

The law says the "author" is the owner of the copyright. The author of a photo or image is usually the person who snapped the shutter or created the image. If you took the photo, you own the copyright. If a professional photographer took the photo for you, then he or she owns the copyright. If that photographer is an employee of a studio or other person in the business of making photos, then his or her employer is considered the author.
Prior to 1978, court cases said a customer who commissioned a photo was the employer of the photographer, so customers could get reprints made without any problem. In 1979, the U.S. Supreme Court said that was no longer true. To be an employee, the court said a person would have to be considered an employee under the traditional tests such as are used to impose payroll taxes, social security, and similar laws. That is not the usual customer-photographer relationship

 

[86leo]

So is using someone elses pic grounds for a lawsuit and is it illegal?

Yes it is. So do not STEAL people's pictures. That is basically what it is. Stealing.

That is why I watermark all my images that I put anywhere online. To prevent people from stealing them and claiming them as their own.

 

[86leo]

If anyone has any more questions in regards to Copyright and eBay:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/copyrights.html

Copyright Basics


What is a copyright?
A copyright is the legal protection given in the United States to original works of authorship. Copyrights protect books, paintings, photos, music, video, software and so forth. Copyright protection attaches to a work the moment it is fixed in tangible form (on paper, on video,. etc.) and prevents others from using the work without permission.

Copyright is a bundle of rights
A copyright is a bundle of rights, including the exclusive right to distribute, sell, duplicate, publicly perform, and create derivative works from the work. Copyright for newer works lasts for at least 70 years, depending upon whether the author is a person or a company. The length of copyright protection for older works is often difficult to determine.The fact that a work is old doesn't necessarily mean that the copyright on it has expired. Until the end of the term of protection, a copyright owner has the right to sell, transfer, assign, or license one or all of these exclusive rights to someone else.

Copyright registrations and markings
In the United States, you do not need to register a copyright in order to benefit from copyright protections, although you may have to register your copyright if you want to file a legal action concerning your copyright. It is also not necessary to place a © on the copyrighted work, but it is a good idea to do so. The absence of a © doesn't mean it’s okay to copy a work without permission.

Resale of copyrighted works
Under the copyright laws, the owner of a particular copy of a copyrighted work is generally entitled to resell the particular copy they own. For example, if you purchase a copy of a DVD movie, you are allowed to resell that particular DVD. Copyright protection prevents you from copying the DVD movie and reselling the copies. If you have licensed the right to use a particular copyrighted item, you should review the license and consult with your attorney to determine whether you can resell the item.

Selling versus giving away an item
Copyright protection includes the exclusive right to distribute the copyrighted work. This usually means that giving away an unauthorized copy of a copyrighted work (for example a duplicated copy of a videocassette) is not permitted. Thus, selling a pencil for $5.00, and including for "free" an unauthorized DVD copy would probably be against the law.

Rights of publicity
Similarly, putting someone’s face, image, name or signature on a product being sold is prohibited by California's "Right of Publicity" law and some privacy laws. Thus, using a celebrity’s photograph for a commercial purpose may violate that celebrity's right of publicity, even if the picture was taken by the seller and the seller owns the copyright.

The Berne Convention?
The Berne Convention itself is not U.S. law and does not excuse activity which otherwise would violate U.S. copyright law. The Berne Convention is an international treaty signed by the United States in 1989. By signing the Berne Convention, the U.S. committed to making certain changes to its copyright law.
*This information is not intended to be legal advice. If you have any doubts about whether you can sell an item on eBay, we encourage you to contact the copyright owner or consult your own attorney.
Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:

• Listing cancellation
• Limits on account privileges
• Account suspension
• Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings
• Loss of PowerSeller status

 

[86leo]

And if the above wasnt enough:



http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/vero-image-text-theft.html

Item Description and Picture Theft
eBay members are not allowed to use another eBay user's pictures or descriptions in their listings or About Me pages without the owner's permission.

Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:

Listing cancellation
Loss of eBay fees
Limits placed on account privileges
Loss of PowerSeller status
Account suspension
Examples

A seller doesn't know the best way to describe an item. The seller copies a substantial amount of another member’s description and pastes it into a listing, without receiving the original writer’s permission.
A seller uses someone else's picture and includes it in a listing, since it looks very similar to the item the seller is offering.
Report a member who is using your text or images without your permission.

Note: You must own the rights to the text or images you are reporting for unauthorized use.

 

[foxiyellow]

Thank you for all of the information..particularly 86leos.
Great women on here with so much awesome advice to give...I love TPF!

On a side note, I see that using another ebayers pic was wrong but I think it is ridiculous to make an issue out of it and to go as far as she did. I ended the auction but it has me still thinking about things of this nature....How many people out there download music from limewire and whatnot?....Hundreds of thousands in the US and across the globe. Is it stealing? A lot would say yes, and a lot would say no. Legally, it is stealing...but you what...it happens anyway. Not to get into a whole long spiel but money feeds into power...Money hungry musicians weasel their way into congress and make sure BS laws are enforced so that they can collect their big cup of change. That is the ONLY reason why the music situation today is the way it is. So I'll say its wrong b/c yeah its legally wrong...do I think its completely and wholly wrong from every aspect...No, not really. Same thing with the Ebay pic. Same bag, same crappy picture. No biggy..but if someone wants to create a fuss about it...then fine, I'll close the listing.

PS: If someone buys an item from me and decided to resell it at a later time and uses my pics...I would not give two sh*ts.

PPS Ebay is great and Ebay sucks. There are a lot of rules and hey Ive got to follow them if I want to sell. But it doesnt mean they are always right (look at all the fraud they condone, so long as MR CEO 1,2, and 3 still get to line their pockets) and it certainly does not make EBay the moral compass of the world

 

[foxiyellow]

Thanks again for all of the info on copyrights. I know now what I need to do and abide by inorder to keep selling items in the Ebay marketplace. I dont necessarily agree with all of it but I understand they are rules that I and other Ebay memebers need to abide by. Great info by the way!

 

[chloebalenciaga]

Okay, let me see if I got this straight-- You purchased an MJ from a seller that you eventually received a sixty dollar refund from because of your claim that the item was not as described. You then have the bag repaired and relist it using her original photos? Lack of camera not withstanding: I fail to understand why you chose to go with her photos when they don't depict the bag in its current restored state?

If I were said seller I would feel violated. On many levels.

 

[Sternchen]

But...did I screw up somewhere

The only place you really screwed up was using her pictures - you are not allowed to do that. It is against eBay policy and it will get your listing pulled if somebody reports you.

 

[pukasonqo]

i don't think i'll sue you, but if i nwas in the buyer's shoes i would be very . see it this way, even if she's not the mario testino of ebay those were her pics, they didn't belong to you...why wasn't this clear from the start? call me thick but i don't really get that.

 

[xxcentrix]

In a nutshell: I bought a Marc Jacobs bag that she stated in her auction was like brand new, only used once, and the only problem was a little tiny pen mark. I asked her if I could buy it now, and she set up a buy it now price for me.

Then I receive the bag; yes there is a pen mark that is not "tiny" and there are loose threads and 3 grease/oil marks around the body. Feeling as if I had by screwed, I emailed her and said I do nto want this bag, it was mis-represented and I will pay for shipping back.\

Then starts an onslaught of emails from her, syaing she did me a big favor by setting up the buy it now for me and there were many other interested buyers. I told her all I wanted was a refund. We were getting no where, and finally I said I would accept a partial refund...thinking like 10, 20 dollars tops. She emails me and says she wil refund me 60 bucks. I accept it.

We leave + feedback for eachother.


I study the bag and realize that I can fix the few loose threads and I take a top quality leather cleaner and go over it with a fine tooth comb to make it look immaculate. In the end, I realize that the bag is too small for me as it can only fit like a wallet, a cosmetic bag comfortably.

I re-list the bag on Ebay stating that I bought it from another Ebayer who used it once, and that I never used it and that the bag is in like new condition with the excpetion of the pen mark (which is significantly less noticable now, since I worked on the bag)

Given that is the same bag, I used the same pictures she used because I do not have a digital camera right now.

She emails me and says what I did was fraud and she is an attorney and she will turn me into Ebay trust and safety, call the police, call the US attorney General, and attempt to sue me.


Uh. My brain is spinning too much to even think straight right now.


Could you ladies give me some feedback on this situation?

I realize her claims about what she will do (i.e. US attorney) are ridiculous

But...did I screw up somewhere

Or..Is this just a really screwed up, moron woman who is mad becuase I might make more money off her bag than she did?


Any response will be appreciated

Saying she would call the us attorney general is a total JOKE!

 

[hlfinn]

the thing about stealing pics is that it's just plain lazy. when i first started selling on ebay i borrowed friends cameras until i bought my own. it is illegal on ebay because it's a copyright infrigingement but you saying "oh i don't understand why she would get upset." is just an excuse. she took the time to take the pics, edit them, whatever which can sometimes be a huge effort. she gave you back the money in good faith and then you stole her pictures. i always report people who steal mine- UNLESS they ask or I offer. if that's the case then fine, i asked for it. but as someone else pointed out my guess is that she thought you were scamming her to send the bag back and then took the money she gave you and relisted it in the same condiiton as far as she knew. you should have emailed her and said "thank you for the partial refund, i took the money and had the bag repaired but then found it was too small for me. i am going to relist it, would you mind if i used your pics as I don't have a camera?" then she would not have freaked out. she might not have allowed you to use the pics but at least you were honest with her. truly, in life, honesty is the best policy.

and there are a lot of people on ebay who try and return items to sellers claiming it's not as described and then sell the item with the same pics and description as the original seller. one of my 3 negs came from a situation like that- buyer had remorse about buying it, claimed it was not as described, then relisted it herself on ebay using basically my entire auction. i got the whole thing pulled and her narued. it happens.

 

[Ghost55]

and there are a lot of people on ebay who try and return items to sellers claiming it's not as described and then sell the item with the same pics and description as the original seller. one of my 3 negs came from a situation like that- buyer had remorse about buying it, claimed it was not as described, then relisted it herself on ebay using basically my entire auction. i got the whole thing pulled and her narued. it happens.

Heather~ how do I get my guy narued?