"The Rich New York Women Who Love Their Fake Birkins" article in The Cut - thoughts?

[papertiger]

This thread is only commenting on and discussing points made arising from the article in #1 post, discussing Hermes:

For general discussion and debate on fake bags please read/post here: Why do people wear fake bags?

For a discussion on the 'gray (or grey) market: What is the gray market for HE handbags? It's not a fake...

 

[showgratitude]

If one is a billionaire, buying a $30K bag is just like buying candies in the grocery for her. Given a billionaire's busy schedule and business meetings she has to attend to (to make more money), I doubt that she will be interested to go to the fake market to be able to save some moolah

 

[papertiger]

I will also add that at the end of the day with a group of fake bags there is no place to
go with them. Having the authentic one which can be repaired, spa'd & re-sold.
There is nothing like knowing you have an authentic item, be it a watch,jewelry, etc
Likely with this article getting out, many auction houses, resellers, consignments stores
will have to be super careful with "buyouts" if a walk in is that brazen to sell one of these bags
So these women are buying large quantities of assorted styles to wear & likely paying a
decent price & what do they really have.. nada, just a bag to brag about among their friend(s)
I can see the image in my head.. Can you tell the real bag from the fake bag"?
& then the "dialogue begins"

If you read the link @cakeymakeybakey posted, you'd see most of them are constantly in fear of being ripped-off and talking about quality issues.

In my little brain, I just think, if there was a pilgrimage-worthy place/factory where perfect bags were being churned out, time after time, on a par with Hermes, undetectable, readily available and 10% of the price, I think we would at least have a single/group whispered name that we'd heard of. To me the land of the super-fakes remains a place of mythology.

If I had such a factory, so many excellently skilled artisans (or even one) access to superior skins and hw, might I not just design and create my own high-end line and charge at least double rather than risk getting shut down and dealing with all manner of nonsense?

 

[cakeymakeybakey]

Good detective work and very interesting

Right?!? And the fact that the OP of that thread came back three years later to comment that s/he never got the chance to write the article because of all the negative replies in that thread from the PF community blah blah blah. I loved @Notorious Pink's reply, which was the last one before the thread was locked, and was also kind of a love letter to this forum.

 

[2cello]

If I had such a factory, so many excellently skilled artisans (or even one) access to superior skins and hw, might I not just design and create my own high-end line and charge at least double rather than risk getting shut down and dealing with all manner of nonsense?

LOL. While you are very likely correct with respect to handbags, there are highly skilled computer programmers who work for criminal syndicates to infiltrate computer systems and extort businesses out of millions of dollars. So such a thing isn't impossible.

 

[showgratitude]

That’s why I can’t bring myself to buy from those resale sites!

Agree. I was duped many years ago. I bought a Birkin from an allegedly "reputable seller and it was even authenticated by a reputable authenticator" (which I refuse to name because I don't want the seller's and authenticator's loyalists and supporters bashing me if they come across this..even when H already confirmed that the item I bought is not their product!). It had a "missing lock". So I brought it to H because a nice SA told me over the phone that they have to see the B first before they can reorder one for me. So I did! In the boutique, they were very respectful. But I was told that the bag is not their product, and that they cannot order the lock for me! I could have argued that it was authenticated by so and so..but who am I kidding? Would one really want to carry a pricey bag..knowing that it might be fake? I won't have peace of mind. So obviously it was not worth it! I returned it. Thankfully I was refunded. But I learned my lesson well from that experience! But of course, for people here who still want to buy H products from other places (other than H), that is okay. It's your money, your decision. Your experience might be totally different than mine. Just sharing my experience. Hope no one else experiences it.

 

[I AM GPT]

A fake is a fake is a fake. If you are concerned with your real jewelry or bag being stolen, why not just not wear them?
The need to "flex" on other people is astounding.

 

[I AM GPT]

And I also dont care about all these excuses about how the stitching is just like the real thing, or that I have the real thing so why not.
You are still supporting an illegal trade that ultimately floods the market with hard to tell merchandise that ultimately creates confusion amongst consumers. And who are the ones hurt in all this ? The unsuspecting buyer who buys one thinking it's real.

 

[jiljenner]

First, @cakeymakeybakey, thank you for bringing such a fascinating read to the forum. I especially love discussions around the ethics of luxury, and I feel that they are far too rare here.

On to the article. Some quotes of interest:

Spoiler: Quotes (Mods, please remove if in violation of forum rules)

Although the majority of RepLadies are based in New York City, you’d be mistaken to think of the sub as some kind of virtual Canal Street. According to a self-reported survey it released last year, the group spent more than $3 million on replicas in 2021, and among its members were several chief executives, venture capitalists, a diplomat, and a Big Tech ethics adviser. In fact, the community seems to be largely made up of wealthy women who own authentic bags, can absolutely afford more, and continue to buy fakes.

For this cadre of rep obsessives, status isn’t a massive collection of real luxury bags; it’s the ability to find a fake so perfect it feels more theirs than the real thing.

One RepLady heard this last theory from a popular Hermès replicator. “They buy an authentic, and they rip that ***** apart, and they use it like a pattern,” she tells me. “And they get better and better with every new one that comes out.”

And for many women in circles where social currency can be purchased, rep-buying has evolved into a kind of edgy declaration of identity. To them, status isn’t having the means to join the $10,000-handbag clique—anyone could be so basic. It’s waltzing into brunch with a fake that takes chutzpah.

“What is even considered authentic?” Cindy mused. “Authentic could cost you thousands; used could cost you half. And now you’re telling me a replica could be 10 percent of the real thing and you can’t even tell?”

There is no d/e/m/o/c/r/a/t/i/c way to say what I feel, so I'll just go for it: There is no luxury in fakery.

If you can't, or won't, afford an authentic piece from your designer of choice, then you should find a designer in your actual, or psychological, price range. I'm so tired of people who very obviously cannot afford their luxury shopping addictions, coming up with ever-fancier ways to justify wearing fake goods. Call it a rep, call it grey market, call it a factory castoff: call it whatever you like, but at day's end, it is still a fake, and you are still an overly-dedicated poseur for wearing it.

I cannot stand the narrative, presented in this article, on that forum, and otherwise, that those who can comfortably afford these luxuries are somehow foolish for affording them, just because the presenter of the narrative cannot. The time, and energy, and money, spent developing these ridiculous dissertations on the "value" of counterfeit goods, would be much better spent in therapy, dealing with the very obvious cognitive dissonance required to still spend thousands of dollars on fake versions of goods that are simultaneously claimed to be of diminished value.

There is no requirement to own an ultraluxury good. In the vast majority of social circles, there is neither any applied pressure to do so. So, the fact that these counterfeit connoisseurs have built for themselves a social club dedicated to "outsmarting" a non-existent luxury handbag requirement, is a bizarre form of self-delusion. At what point do these women admit to themselves that the entire reason they're dedicated to finding "the best fakes" is because they care too much that strangers and social acquaintances perceive them as wealthy? And then, at what point do they realize that, if they suffer anxiety from the thought of--or financial distress from the purchase of--luxury goods, that they are not wealthy? And then, following that, at what point do they realize that whatever "social currency" they gain through fake goods... is fake?

Ugh.

EDIT: I also agree with @papertiger that, for many reasons, this article reads more like propaganda and less like news.

 

[I AM GPT]

Imagine gaining some sort of satisfaction from impressing people with fake merchandise.
Cant be me.

 

[daisy913]

Call it a rep, call it grey market, call it a factory castoff: call it whatever you like, but at day's end, it is still a fake, and you are still an overly-dedicated poseur for wearing it.

I don’t know where you’re located, but “gray market” items in the US can also be overstock items, sold at auction, to another retailer, such as TJ Maxx/Marshalls. Technically, any resale market is also “gray,” when you think about it. Most people/resale and discount companies do not have the proper authorization to sell luxury branded items. Since they bought and own an item, though, they have the right to resell. By US definitions, I don’t think it’s fair to say all gray market items are “fake.”

 

[Tykhe]

I am Asian and once, in high school we took a trip to visit some relatives in Shanghai. I came across a store in the mall selling fake bright pink Louis Vuitton bags made of some plastic lace combo. So I was like “this looks fun! I want one!” My mom said “never buy a fake bag. If you carry a fake bag everyone will think your real bags are fake too.”
Honestly if you own a bunch of real bags why would you throw some fake ones into the mix? You only risk your friends spotting a bad fake and then you’ll essentially be the boy who cried wolf anytime you show up with a real bag on your arm.
Also, let’s say you acquire a beautiful collection of the rarest Hermes bags in a short amount of time. Don’t you think you’ll meet other Hermes enthusiasts who might want to talk about shopping at Hermes? Good luck coming up with a believable story. I don’t have many birkins and they are not in highly sought after sizes or colors. But I can tell you exactly where and how I got them. You never forget the day you are offered your first birkin, even if it is bright orange.

 

[I AM GPT]

I think it all boils down to: Some people care about the actual bag, and some people care about the admiration, acceptance, and clout that comes with owning one (even if its fake).

 

[papertiger]

I don’t know where you’re located, but “gray market” items in the US can also be overstock items, sold at auction, to another retailer, such as TJ Maxx/Marshalls. Technically, any resale market is also “gray,” when you think about it. Most people/resale and discount companies do not have the proper authorization to sell luxury branded items. Since they bought and own an item, though, they have the right to resell. By US definitions, I don’t think it’s fair to say all gray market items are “fake.”

Grey market nearly always denoted overstock, reseller business, buying/selling/trading in different territories.

People who support fakery often use the term 'gray/grey but there's nothing grey about it. It's illegal - it's always illegal to sell, even if you've been duped yourself, and in some countries just owning (personal use) is illegal too.

 

[daisy913]

I am Asian and once, in high school we took a trip to visit some relatives in Shanghai. I came across a store in the mall selling fake bright pink Louis Vuitton bags made of some plastic lace combo. So I was like “this looks fun! I want one!” My mom said “never buy a fake bag. If you carry a fake bag everyone will think your real bags are fake too.”
Honestly if you own a bunch of real bags why would you throw some fake ones into the mix? You only risk your friends spotting a bad fake and then you’ll essentially be the boy who cried wolf anytime you show up with a real bag on your arm.
Also, let’s say you acquire a beautiful collection of the rarest Hermes bags in a short amount of time. Don’t you think you’ll meet other Hermes enthusiasts who might want to talk about shopping at Hermes? Good luck coming up with a believable story. I don’t have many birkins and they are not in highly sought after sizes or colors. But I can tell you exactly where and how I got them. You never forget the day you are offered your first birkin, even if it is bright orange.

My friend has a real and fake LV bag (different styles). She’s never tried to pass of her fake one as real, even though it could. She will openly tell you it’s fake, if asked. Ask about her real bag, and she’ll tell you it’s real. Since she’s honest with what’s real and fake, everybody believes her when she says her other luxury goods are real (they’re real, bought directly from the brands).

Honestly, most people here (live in NYC, grew up in New England) have other things to worry about than if someone’s bag and/or collection is real or fake. People who do either have too much time on their hands, or are judgemental, from my experience. Those who don’t care tend to be wealthier and better mannered than those who do.

It’s also in poor taste to actively talk about your wealth here, unless you’re with close friends and/or around people who you know are of similar socioeconomic backgrounds. Similarly, it’s rude to question how someone was able to acquire expensive items.

NYC and its surrounding areas/states have some of the largest pay gaps in the country, so most kids are taught in school to not question why someone has an expensive item, when their family “can’t” afford it. Where I grew up, turning 16 meant a necklace from Tiffany’s, or a bag from LV or Chanel, on top of a new luxury car. No one who grew up here will ever ask someone else how they suddenly acquired a bunch of Hermes bags… ‘cause that kind of stuff is possible.

 

[Love Of My Life]

If you read the link @cakeymakeybakey posted, you'd see most of them are constantly in fear of being ripped-off and talking about quality issues.

In my little brain, I just think, if there was a pilgrimage-worthy place/factory where perfect bags were being churned out, time after time, on a par with Hermes, undetectable, readily available and 10% of the price, I think we would at least have a single/group whispered name that we'd heard of. To me the land of the super-fakes remains a place of mythology.

If I had such a factory, so many excellently skilled artisans (or even one) access to superior skins and hw, might I not just design and create my own high-end line and charge at least double rather than risk getting shut down and dealing with all manner of nonsense?

The article to say the least is quite thought provoking on many levels.
One can fantasize about that special place where bags are being churned out on par with Hermes,
the reality is fakes are omnipresent in many categories in the marketplace. They exist & will
captivate those customers that want it, in spite of it being illegal. Money talks at the end of
the day & those that have these factories are in it for the money because there is a customer
who doesn't care & wants that "it bag" & can conjure up in her/his mind whatever they
want to think.
Hermes is in their own league, with or without their quality issues. Take it or leave it for what it represents.
Unfortunately we live in a world where people are impressed with one's bags & jewels & will
see what they want to see not knowing if that item is a genuine article.
There have been several posters who have shared exceptional artisans that have made gorgeous
as well as distinctive handbags, belts & other accessories on this forum & think outside of that
Hermes box & enjoy the quality & artistry of those original designed items.
At the end of the day, to each his own because for many quantity over quality will have the edge, JMO