Seller got the fake bag + my money

CSamoylov

O.G.
Oct 15, 2010
406
30
I'll try to make this post as simple as possible. I purchased a bag for my friend off eBay through a seller in Michigan. The bag was sent and it turned out to be fake. My friend returned the bag and the bag showed delivered. However, because there was no signature confirmation because the bag was over $250 ($1,950 to be exact) Paypal will not issue the refund. So now the seller has the fake bag as well as the money. I am in CA and she is in MI. Is there anything I can do to get my money back? Thanks for the help.
 

benswife2007

MemesTreasures
O.G.
Dec 31, 2010
1,971
862
Hmm...the bag must be sent back with sig confirmation to get a refund. I would try emailing the seller and being as nice as u can and ask when to expect your refund since the purse has been delivered...if that doesn't work then maybe small claims court would be your only recourse ...no sig equals no refund if the seller decides to keep the money
 
Dec 30, 2007
5,111
783
If it was the original sale without signature confirmation, I would say you would have no chance with Paypal if a buyer filed an INR claim. But because it was a return - and a fake - you might get a more sympathetic ear. It wouldn't hurt to escalate this to a supervisor at Paypal. Good luck.
 

moxie799

In Love with Legacy
O.G.
Dec 21, 2008
866
2
If the bag was a fake, did you (or your friend) file a claim for "Significantly Not as Described" through ebay? Do you have any proof that it was fake, that you could send to PayPal? I find it hard to accept that you're out the money and the product just because you didn't have Signature Confirmation when it was returned - it's one thing if you returned a real bag, but since it's fake- I think you need to make sure PayPal knows that is the reason for the return...

I also agree that it's a good idea to contact the seller and ask them where your refund is since they have their bag back... It would be safest to message them through ebay, so you have record of those messages, in case they need to be forwarded to ebay and/or PayPal.
 

poopsie

How Sentimental
O.G.
Jan 14, 2009
13,666
13,332
Well I know that sellers are screwed if they ship without SC. Doesn't matter if you can prove the PO collected a signature for the insurance if it was over $250. If you don't have online viewable proof the buyer can claim the item wasn't received.
If the transaction was taken outside Ebay to be completed I don't think they are going to get involved.
 

moxie799

In Love with Legacy
O.G.
Dec 21, 2008
866
2
Well I know that sellers are screwed if they ship without SC. Doesn't matter if you can prove the PO collected a signature for the insurance if it was over $250. If you don't have online viewable proof the buyer can claim the item wasn't received.
If the transaction was taken outside Ebay to be completed I don't think they are going to get involved.
Your post brings up a question I had... Is it purchased "off" ebay - or "off" as in "from" ebay...? And even if they didn't have Sig Conf, there's still Delivery Confirmation to prove it was returned. Again, I'm looking at this from the angle of returning a fake/SNAD, and I will be the first to admit that I don't know anything about returning items if it was purchased outside of ebay. OP - can you clarify - when you say "off ebay" - was it purchased outside of ebay, of through ebay?
 

gillianna

O.G.
Dec 27, 2005
8,288
2,178
From reading posts on this forum most people know to get signature confirmation. Why didn't your friend get it? Doesn't eBay require it for items over a certain amount? If the seller scammed your friend with a fake bag she is not going to give money back when there is nothing that proves she got the bag returned to her. Too me these off eBay transactions scream scam.
 

poopsie

How Sentimental
O.G.
Jan 14, 2009
13,666
13,332
I can't find any notification in my Ebay messages and I don't see it mentioned here either https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/upcoming_policies_full

This is what I found in the current PP User Agreement as regards buyer protection

Comply with PayPal’s shipping requests in a timely manner. For Significantly Not as Described (SNAD) Claims, PayPal may require you, at your expense, to ship the item back to the Seller, or to PayPal, or to a third party and to provide proof of delivery.

For transactions that total less than $250, proof of delivery is confirmation that can be viewed online and includes the delivery address showing at least city/state or zip, delivery date, and the URL to the shipping company’s website if you've selected “Other” in the shipping drop down menu. For transactions that total $250 or more, you must get signature confirmation of delivery.


Usually whenever there is a policy change there are numerous threads about it on various Ebay Boards. I don't recall seeing any discussions about it, but I will check again.
 

lovely64

LunAtic
O.G.
Nov 17, 2006
38,073
362
Here it is. Maybe I read it in the wrong way?

Amendment to the PayPal User Agreement.



Preamble


1.The words ‘Merchant Referral Bonus Policy’ are deleted.
Seller Protection Programme

1.
Section 11.9 is deleted and replaced with the following:

11.9 What is “Proof of Delivery”?

Online documentation from a postal company that includes all of the following:


a. A status of “delivered” (or equivalent) and the date of delivery.
b. The recipient’s address, showing at least the city/county or postcode (or international equivalent).

2.
Section 13.5d is deleted and replaced with the following:
d. Comply with PayPal shipping requests in a timely manner

For Significantly Not as Described (SNAD) Claims, PayPal may require you to post the item back to the Payment Recipient – or to PayPal – or a third party at your expense and to provide Proof of Delivery. Proof of Delivery requirements are set out in section 11.9 above. Please take reasonable precautions in re-packing the item to reduce the risk of damage to the item during transit. PayPal may also require you to destroy the item and to provide evidence of its destruction.

3.
Section 15 is amended to delete the definition of ‘Signature Confirmation’.


edit. I probably misread it.
 

lovely64

LunAtic
O.G.
Nov 17, 2006
38,073
362
I tried Google-ing and I still can't find it. Is that from a message or do you have a link?



Ahhhhh!!!!!! The word 'programme'! I don't think that is US------sounds more 'English' English.........iykwim.


I was reading this https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full last updated August 2 2012.
I got a message about a policy update to my email address. I copied the info by loging in to my PP and click "policy updates" to the right. I´m in Sweden so maybe it´s a EU thing? Then again, why would it be? I am not even sure I read it correctly?

What I copied is stated on my paypal account under "policy updates". The message was sent to me on August 8th.
 
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