Sacred beliefs?

If you honestly believe that we haven't made any progress in race relations I honestly don't know what to say. I don't know why it's not enough that anti-racism is publicly espoused by the government and taught in school. Of course there is still racism, there will always be racism But to deny the momentous progress (that is, make it seem incremental or insignificant) that civil rights leaders have made is a serious slap in their faces, IMO..

I am a Mexican girl from east LA so don't think I don't know anything about prejudice and racism or the great strides that have been made. I am thankful for all the work so many civil rights leaders have done. I am not slapping anyone in the face. Only laws have passed is all I'm saying - it all looks great on paper. Changing peoples hearts is what the difficult thing is and argument isn't going to do it. Thats all I'm saying.
 
can I clear a room or what?

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What's your point? I'm a lil' colored girl as well. If you believe majority beliefs have never changed through rational discourse...well, I don't know what to say. History shows it. The fact that flat earth is no longer widely accepted proves it.
 
Aslan:

If you had an argument, I think it was lost long ago because of serious attempts to over-correct the original heated flaws. I apologize for that, because I'd like to agree with you to some extent, but the way you have argued your view has you more defensive and unreasonable than logical and easy to understand. At this point, I'm not even sure what you believe exactly. The general gist of it that I still see present is that you feel this superior feeling to knock down every bad/illogical (in your opinion) argument that steps into your direction. You can't expect anyone to think that is even a half-way reasonable attitude. The moon is cheese example doesn't even really matter for any of this because I know it has nothing to do with what you're thinking of. If we float back down to a realistic plain, I'm going to assume you plan on disputing any claim towards anything that isn't scientifically/logically based that you disagree with. Fine, but not everyone thinks like that. Sure you can dispute it up and down the road and back, but if you do so, the summing point is that you're going to come off more as a jerk than anything else. You can't change a lot of people's minds, and sure it's your right to argue their point, but if you expect/demand a reasonable retort from them, than don't get your hopes up, because a lot of people just won't give you one. I don't know many people that want a battle, knowing that their opponent is going to skip off and screaming hurrah I'm the winner because they already believe they were right to begin with. There are some things in life just better left alone. Of course serious issues are worth full discussion, but you completely lose point and face when you become aggressive or domineering, or start making critical demands/challenges. I can't even completely respond because you've jumped around so much it would take a spreadsheet to make a point about everything you've said!

Racism isn't dead, hardly. Geez I live in the South, half the people I know are liberal AND racist. It isn't prominent anymore because it's so taboo, but oh I assure you, it's there. Sure we've made great strides to end it, politically correct strides, but the generation that grew up surrounded by racist vibes is still alive and kicking, and they've taught their kids similar values, who will later teach THEIR kids the same thing. They just don't express it anymore because of the condemnation that they'd receive. I'm not racist, and I don't promote racism, but hell it's there whether you like it or not. Who knows what it will take to correct the issue, but I can tell you that it will take a very, very long time to even half-way eliminate it, and I don't even believe that it CAN be eliminated. It's human nature to hate, and pinning it on someone of a different culture/color than yourself makes hate especially easy.
 
What's your point? I'm a lil' colored girl as well. If you believe majority beliefs have never changed through rational discourse...well, I don't know what to say. History shows it. The fact that flat earth is no longer widely accepted proves it.

my point is I'm trying to make peace with you but you want to keep counterpointing. If all you want to hear is "your absolutely right Aslan" I can't completely give that to you. And enough with the earth being round. I think we all get that.

p.s. we also no longer go to the barber when we need surgery or bleed people with leeches who have the flu.
 
If you believe majority beliefs have never changed through rational discourse... The fact that flat earth is no longer widely accepted proves it.

and btw - people believed this only after ships didn't fall off the edge of the earth. and still more after they saw photos from space. rational discourse did not change what people believed. facts did. and believe it or not, there are still people who believe the earth is indeed flat.
my point over and over again is that there are pragmatic arguments you can make and there are emotional arguments. you can prove 2 + 2 is 4 and no one can argue with you. but when you cross over to a non tangible thing like hatred, its tougher. and all the laws in the land won't change what people think in their heads.
 
I believe it was the ACLU that helped get prayer out of schools in the first place.

the ACLU helped get teacher-led, required prayer out of public, government funded schools - the government should NEVER be able to require anyone to pray, it's a completely personal choice and a violation of civil rights for the government to require prayer in general or any specific prayer in particular. there is a giant, cavernous legal distinction between that and barring anyone from personal prayer in a public place - the ACLU would also be against that. they're not a liberal or conservative organization, they defend personal freedom, and the right to not be required to pray and the right to pray as you see fit are BOTH concepts that they support.

and if you want proof that prayer is still completely acceptable in schools, look no further than my home state: Georgia public schools have a mandated 'moment of silent reflection' in the morning to allow students to pray if they wish.

not that it matters, because this is totally tangential to the point of the thread.
 
the ACLU helped get teacher-led, required prayer out of public, government funded schools - the government should NEVER be able to require anyone to pray, it's a completely personal choice and a violation of civil rights for the government to require prayer in general or any specific prayer in particular. there is a giant, cavernous legal distinction between that and barring anyone from personal prayer in a public place - the ACLU would also be against that. they're not a liberal or conservative organization, they defend personal freedom, and the right to not be required to pray and the right to pray as you see fit are BOTH concepts that they support.

and if you want proof that prayer is still completely acceptable in schools, look no further than my home state: Georgia public schools have a mandated 'moment of silent reflection' in the morning to allow students to pray if they wish.

not that it matters, because this is totally tangential to the point of the thread.

Thank you for clarifying this for me. I have been told by many people (in the context of religious discussion) that prayer was banned in schools by the interference of the ACLU, and no-one was permitted to pray in schools quietly even if they wanted to.
 
Thank you for clarifying this for me. I have been told by many people (in the context of religious discussion) that prayer was banned in schools by the interference of the ACLU, and no-one was permitted to pray in schools quietly even if they wanted to.

people like to spread nasty lies about what the ACLU does, for some reason. it's a VERY misunderstood organization that has done a lot of good for a lot of people.
 
see, this is what i'm talking about. we disagreed, we talked about it openly, and although i don't know if i changed your mind or not, we had a valuable exchange of information. :yes:

I understand that. But you also had a very organized and focused argument/statement and weren't all over the place. that debate team experience helped.:tup:
 
you know, I don't think anyone here wants Aslan to feel bad or that she is just completely wrong and out of her mind. I respect her and believe she is a very intelligent woman. I think it is the fact that the focus was off from post to post and speaking for myself was often unclear on what the point was. Like Merika said earlier, it would help to know what set her off in the first place. There was vagueness and implication then turn arounds, I couldn't keep up. It would be nice for this thread to continue peacefully or if Aslan could let us know what upset her earlier. We all like to help each other more than anything afterall....can I get an amen?