Quality getting worse.. Probably no more chanel :(

[redwings]

Leather is going to crease differently based on so many things:
- the type of interfacing that was used
- where the piece was cut from the hide
- how the leather is held/handled when it was manufactured and used
- any finishing

Creasing is not a good judge of quality. My cobbler has seen so many men's shoes made with the highest quality hides like Edward Green, John Lobb. Some crease so horribly and some look like it was barely worn until you look at the sole, but they are still high quality because factors like the above and the shape of your feet affect creasing.

Also thicker leathers are difficult to make puffy when they're being quilted so there is a reason why Gucci Marmonts, Prada Systems, and Dior Caros use thinner leathers.

Don't get me wrong because I'm not defending Chanel's large quality decline, but it's inaccurate to be drawing out these type of comparisons. Also Hermes quality has dropped too.

Coco would've turned if she saw Karl's first runway show.

Different leathers will crease differently - yes. No one disagrees there.

That said bag was also new. Not worn hence shouldn‘t be that way.

Caviar to Caviar - the creasing should be similar, not because the leather is ‘thinner’. How can the caviar manufacturing process be different from one colour to another ? Not too logical to me. Like I said, I am not comparing lambskin to caviar.

That‘s why I said same type of leather comparison (Togo to Togo, Epi to Epi, Smooth calf to smooth calf). Other houses - the same type of leather comes with the similar characteristics for all bags, in spite of the different colours.

The manufacturing for the style of bag in the same leather should be consistent across board. It isn’t a mass factory manufactured bag from a Chinese factory.

 

[redwings]

Why are luxury bags so expensive?

Because we are paying for the discards which failed the QC process.

For every ten to twenty leather skins discarded to others on selection, there is that one good one which passes on to the artisans to create a bag. Simplification but a rough idea. Exotics and other leathers are graded - Top luxury houses take the ones with the least flaws aka top grades while the rest filters down to other manufacturers.

Even a minor mistake by an artisan doing the work on ten top grade leather skins, maybe one or more get destroyed due to again QC process which detected unacceptable mistakes or inconsistencies in the bag.

So with every premium you pay for one bag, that premium includes the price paid for the top grade leather, labour, admin costs, plus destroyed bags which failed QC, plus the profit margin slapped onto the price.

Of course, for certain luxury and even contemporary designer houses I shall not name - they open outlets to sell less than perfect bags, seasonal failures, failed prototypes and even samples at a lower price but with modified designs to distinguish them in order to recoup the losses. So that’s how outlets can price lower than the main houses.

 

[880]

It isn’t a mass factory manufactured bag from a Chinese factory.

As per several other threads, including the one started by @TraceySH , chanel bags are mass factory manufactured. . . .from an Italian factory. The leather is not top grade. Even KL viewed them as fashion pieces, not anything like bespoke heritage leather bags. Here is the link to the 61 page monster of a thread :

Chanel’s Rise & STALL: Defects, Difficulties & Deflection (formerly the 19 tote saga thread)

Just a hunch, but can you wear costume jewelry ear studs? Some ppl have an allergic reaction to them due to the metal used in them. Maybe there are some metal particles in the coating of the bag which give it the shiny appearance. All of this is just a wild guess though. It’s ridiculous that...

forum.purseblog.com

im one of the few who have had very good luck with my chanel bags ( ive owned them from 1990 or so to 2020), but i feel terribly for the experience of others.

@redwings , @purselovah91 , OT, but chanel, because it has so many RTW seasons and styles, and bags etc., may be among the worst of the luxury houses, in terms of carbon footprint, but I am assuming all of them are far better than fast fashion. Of course that may not be saying much. . . I console myself by still wearing some of my items from decades ago. @redwings , I did dare someone on that thread to buy a KL, factory made in China, so we could compare with a chanel, factory made in italy, but no one took me up on it.

 

[dbcelly]

My four year old gabrielle, which I seldom use, the leather from the straps started to flake off.. from what I read this is a sign of coated leather.. it has never happened to my other Chanel’s ever .. I contacted them and they said it could be fixed but im sceptical if it will happen again in the future .View attachment 5622285

arg, did they at least say they'll fix/replace the leather strap for free since it's under warranty?

 

[redwings]

As per several other threads, including the one started by @TraceySH , chanel bags are mass factory manufactured. . . .from an Italian factory. The leather is not top grade. Even KL viewed them as fashion pieces, not anything like bespoke heritage leather bags.

im one of the few who have had very good luck with my chanel bags ( ive owned them from 1990 or so to 2020), but i feel terribly for the experience of others.

Same here with the luck. I stopped buying in 2019 after the last purchase.

Interestingly I didn’t know they were mass factory manufactured in Italy.

 

[purselovah91]

Why are luxury bags so expensive?

Because we are paying for the discards which failed the QC process.

For every ten to twenty leather skins discarded to others on selection, there is that one good one which passes on to the artisans to create a bag. Simplification but a rough idea. Exotics and other leathers are graded - Top luxury houses take the ones with the least flaws aka top grades while the rest filters down to other manufacturers.

Even a minor mistake by an artisan doing the work on ten top grade leather skins, maybe one or more get destroyed due to again QC process which detected unacceptable mistakes or inconsistencies in the bag.

So with every premium you pay for one bag, that premium includes the price paid for the top grade leather, labour, admin costs, plus destroyed bags which failed QC, plus the profit margin slapped onto the price.

Of course, for certain luxury and even contemporary designer houses I shall not name - they open outlets to sell less than perfect bags, seasonal failures, failed prototypes and even samples at a lower price but with modified designs to distinguish them in order to recoup the losses. So that’s how outlets can price lower than the main houses.

What if you care about the environment and don't want to pay for destroyed bags? That is simply terrible!

 

[redwings]

What if you care about the environment and don't want to pay for destroyed bags? That is simply terrible!

You don’t buy. That’s all. Choice is entirely yours.

No luxury house, or even any manufacturer can escape the carbon footprint or environmental damage.

Old days, people used to sew their own clothes, fix their bags, repair their shoes but now, even fast fashion is helping to pile Earth with garbage too.

 

[cerulean blue]

Why are luxury bags so expensive?

Because of the brand. That's all imo.

 

[redwings]

Because of the brand, let's be real.

Brand recognition goes into the profit margin consideration ON TOP of overhead costs of manufacturing ( including destroyed bags) , QC, packaging, logistics, distribution and managing stores plus servicing centers.

Labor force salaries in China, or countries with sweat shop practices are far lower than labor force salaries in France and certain parts of EU. So we can’t compare the likes of Chanel or Hermes to the cost of bags mass-manufactured elsewhere in the factories of some developing nation.

Mass producing factories reduce the cost significantly compared to single artisans working on one bag.

Top grade full grain leather is way more expensive than bonded leather (basically scrap).

Let’s be very realistic.

As per several other threads, including the one started by @TraceySH , chanel bags are mass factory manufactured. . . .from an Italian factory. The leather is not top grade. Even KL viewed them as fashion pieces, not anything like bespoke heritage leather bags. Here is the link to the 61 page monster of a thread :

Chanel’s Rise & STALL: Defects, Difficulties & Deflection (formerly the 19 tote saga thread)

Just a hunch, but can you wear costume jewelry ear studs? Some ppl have an allergic reaction to them due to the metal used in them. Maybe there are some metal particles in the coating of the bag which give it the shiny appearance. All of this is just a wild guess though. It’s ridiculous that...

forum.purseblog.com

im one of the few who have had very good luck with my chanel bags ( ive owned them from 1990 or so to 2020), but i feel terribly for the experience of others.

@redwings , @purselovah91 , OT, but chanel, because it has so many RTW seasons and styles, and bags etc., may be among the worst of the luxury houses, in terms of carbon footprint, but I am assuming all of them are far better than fast fashion. Of course that may not be saying much. . . I console myself by still wearing some of my items from decades ago. @redwings , I did dare someone on that thread to buy a KL, factory made in China, so we could compare with a chanel, factory made in italy, but no one took me up on it.

I might pop over to the nearby department store and look at the KL there to see if the quality is near to current Chanel.

 

[Yhte123]

Different leathers will crease differently - yes. No one disagrees there.

That said bag was also new. Not worn hence shouldn‘t be that way.

Caviar to Caviar - the creasing should be similar, not because the leather is ‘thinner’. How can the caviar manufacturing process be different from one colour to another ? Not too logical to me. Like I said, I am not comparing lambskin to caviar.

That‘s why I said same type of leather comparison (Togo to Togo, Epi to Epi, Smooth calf to smooth calf). Other houses - the same type of leather comes with the similar characteristics for all bags, in spite of the different colours.

The manufacturing for the style of bag in the same leather should be consistent across board. It isn’t a mass factory manufactured bag from a Chinese factory.

you didn’t get what I said.

The same types of leathers can and may crease differently. The same caviar leather can crease differently because of the hide and the variations in the quality of the skin cow. Certain areas of the hide can be prone to pronounced creasing certain areas aren’t.

Brand recognition goes into the profit margin consideration ON TOP of overhead costs of manufacturing ( including destroyed bags) , QC, packaging, logistics, distribution and managing stores plus servicing centers.

Labor force salaries in China, or countries with sweat shop practices are far lower than labor force salaries in France and certain parts of EU. So we can’t compare the likes of Chanel or Hermes to the cost of bags mass-manufactured elsewhere in the factories of some developing nation.

Mass producing factories reduce the cost significantly compared to single artisans working on one bag.

Top grade full grain leather is way more expensive than bonded leather (basically scrap).

Let’s be very realistic.

If we were to be very realistic then low-cost labor with dubious conditions akin to Chinese sweatshops have been utilized by these luxury brands for a long time in Italy where these bags are mass-produced, multiple exposes have revealed the only difference between these factories are the countries they’re located in. Not to mention how it been revealed how items are majority made in China etc but finished in Italy.

Where is the legit proof Chanel is using bonded leather?

 

[Christofle]

The real cost of Chanel bags is from the ridiculous upkeep of their international boutiques, marketing departments, and the very real premium of paying for the brand in addition to large margins required to cover the cost of the couture ateliers. The cost of the leathers is very very low on the totem pole unfortunately. After all the bags are machine stitched without any complicated construction techniques being required.

The bags are still lovely fashion pieces but examples of "haute maroquinerie" they are certainly not.

 

[redwings]

Different leathers will crease differently - yes. No one disagrees there.

you didn’t get what I said.

The same types of leathers can and may crease differently. The same caviar leather can crease differently because of the hide and the variations in the quality of the skin cow. Certain areas of the hide can be prone to pronounced creasing certain areas aren’t.

Now if we are talking about ‘less‘ finished leathers like lamb skin, I might be incline to agree. However caviar is a finished leather, and very very processed.

If we were to be very realistic then low-cost labor with dubious conditions akin to Chinese sweatshops have been utilized by these luxury brands for a long time in Italy where these bags are mass-produced, multiple exposes have revealed the only difference between these factories are the countries they’re located in. Not to mention how it been revealed how items are majority made in China etc but finished in Italy.

Well, I would think that the EU would put a stop to sweat shops.

I know that Loewe did their marquetry in Spain (even saw a video of their workshop doing marquetry), Bottega weaves their leather and Hermes has a craftsman stamp on their bags.

Where is the legit proof Chanel is using bonded leather?

I am talking about costs of producing a bag. Not about Chanel.

But yes, judging from the damages I saw on people’s bags online and even my friend’s Chanel 22 - it does look like the leather on some parts looks more bonded than full grain. Not talking about the interfacing. Go see super Dacob’s complain about his bag and the damage does look more like what one would see on bonded leather.

Adding to this, we will never find out legit proof because even Chanel refused to release material information to me regarding an allergic reaction I had to one of their leather bags (Not a caviar or lambskin). Started with hives and then developed into allergic contact dermatitis. They prefer to refund me ‘out of generosity’.

They at first wanted a doctor’s note to certify that the bag is the problem but no decent doctor in his right mind can certify that unless he knows what to tell the specialist to test for in a patch test to CONFIRM, and in doing so, he needs the make up of the bag. He can’t call it a leather allergy because none of my leather items nor even his leather wallet could elicit a reaction unlike how that bag did.

Had it been food, the legislation can compel them.

 

[Yhte123]

Now if we are talking about ‘less‘ finished leathers like lamb skin, I might be incline to agree. However caviar is a finished leather, and very very processed.


Well, I would think that the EU would put a stop to sweat shops.

I know that Loewe did their marquetry in Spain (even saw a video of their workshop doing marquetry), Bottega weaves their leather and Hermes has a craftsman stamp on their bags.

I am talking about costs of producing a bag. Not about Chanel.

But yes, judging from the damages I saw on people’s bags online and even my friend’s Chanel 22 - it does look like the leather looks more bonded than full grain. Go see super Dacob’s complain about his bag and the damage does look more like what one would see on bonded leather.

Adding to this, we will never find out legit proof because even Chanel refused to release material information to me regarding an allergic reaction I had to one of their leather bags (Not a caviar or lambskin). They prefer to refund me ‘out of generosity’.

They at first wanted a doctor’s note to certify that the bag is the problem but no decent doctor in his right mind can certify that unless he knows what to tell the specialist to test for in a patch test to CONFIRM, and in doing so, he needs the make up of the bag. He can’t call it a leather allergy because none of my leather items nor even his leather wallet could elicit a reaction unlike how that bag did.

Had it been food, the legislation can compel them.

Very very processed isn’t going to completely alter how leather will eventually crease, especially when caviar is most likely achieved by heat stamping and a wax/synthetic finish.

And in an economic system that prioritizes unmitigated growth and profit at any costs, there will be a disregard of ethics like sweatshops still occurring in the EU. But that’s one stage of the supply chain. What about the raw materials which could also be produced in unethical and dangerous conditions like slave labor cotton from China?

None of those brands are Chanel nor does it invalidate the fact that sweatshop labor occurs in Europe.

LOOK is different from IS. Unless there is legit evidence that Chanel is using bonded leather then it would be irresponsible to allege it.

 

[redwings]

Very very processed isn’t going to completely alter how leather will eventually crease, especially when caviar is most likely achieved by heat stamping and a wax/synthetic finish.

‘Eventually’ - um. Bag is new as the person who was asking said.

A few responses went with it isn’t new or used before.

And in an economic system that prioritizes unmitigated growth and profit at any costs, there will be a disregard of ethics like sweatshops still occurring in the EU. But that’s one stage of the supply chain. What about the raw materials which could also be produced in unethical and dangerous conditions like slave labor cotton from China?

No one didn’t said anything about sweatshops in EU except you. Only mass production factories.

I only mentioned sweatshops in the developing countries and also said that “So we can’t compare the likes of Chanel or Hermes to the cost of bags mass-manufactured elsewhere in the factories of some developing nation.” - let me make it clear “both brands DO NOT take part in developing nations’ sweatshops“.

None of those brands are Chanel nor does it invalidate the fact that sweatshop labor occurs in Europe.

Your point?

LOOK is different from IS. Unless there is legit evidence that Chanel is using bonded leather then it would be irresponsible to allege it.

Then Chanel should be transparent about their processes and materials, like the other luxury houses. We have some houses crowing about their leathers and how they make em.

Most of all, Chanel shouldn’t shut a customer up with a refund when the bag comes off as really really odd (in terms of smell or even damage) in some of the posts or even triggering a reaction. That invokes suspicion.

 

[purselovah91]

"Many companies are using inexpensive immigrant labor to manufacture handbags that bear the coveted “Made in Italy” label"

The Chinese Workers Who Assemble Designer Bags in Tuscany

Many companies are using inexpensive immigrant labor to manufacture handbags that bear the coveted “Made in Italy” label.

www.newyorker.com