Prince Harry and Meghan Markle thread

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I kindly request that all members participating in the MM and Harry thread dial back the vile rhetoric.

I am not opposed to discussing public personas on TPF, including the constant torrent of news surrounding the couple from this thread. But I find it troubling when their looks are being nitpicked apart to a degree that is just not appropriate.

This thread has drawn criticism over the years, and I discussed it at great length with Megs and the mods. I am not looking to close it down, but the vitriol needs to be dialed back.

My personal feelings about hate threads aside, this ultra-negative vibe is something better suited for other forums, Reddit, or elsewhere. I am holding our community to higher standards.

Thanks for reading.
 
I'm all for exposing the lying liar who lies. I find it a bit rich to drag everyone they can think of into it. Like, if the BRF wanted us to see the bullying report we'd see it. I'd have no problem with the actual victims demanding it be made public or maybe even the British people, but Samantha who?
Samantha may be representing many voices that want to expose the Harkles' falsehoods. Her lawyers seem to know what they are doing, as TW with all her contacts, lawyers and money still can't bring this case to an end. TW is having a taste of her own medicine.
 
Samantha may be representing many voices that want to expose the Harkles' falsehoods. Her lawyers seem to know what they are doing, as TW with all her contacts, lawyers and money still can't bring this case to an end. TW is having a taste of her own medicine.

Yeah, I somehow doubt the British people were waiting for Princess Pinocchio's sister to save them.
 
Psychology Today actually did a review of Spare where they analyzed Harry’s whining. Enjoy! :biggrin:

Prince Harry's Disappointments, Annoyances, and Hatreds

A typology of Harry's whining.​

KEY POINTS
  • As much mention has been made of Prince Harry's whining, it is useful to go through all of his whining comments in his memoir "Spare".
  • A sample of his whines are sorted into three categories: Disappointments (regrettable), Annoyances (irritations) and Hatred (blazing anger).
  • Disappointments mainly involve Harry's father and grandmother, Annoyances mainly involve his brother, and Hatreds mainly involve the tabloids.
In Spare, Prince Harry acknowledged that he is viewed by many as a “whinger” (British for whiner). Certainly, if that wasn’t the case when he was writing his memoir, it is true today, as the book is filled with dozens of complaints about various people and their behavior. But not all of Harry’s whines are equally serious, with some being quite trivial and others verging on the monumental. In the interest of getting a better understanding of why Harry’s nickname could be Gannitus (Latin for whiner), I have gone through Spare and marked every instance of whining, indicating the target and nature of the whine, and placing it in one of three seriousness categories: disappointments, annoyances, and hatreds.

These fall on an anger continuum, with disappointment being more sad than angry, annoyance reflecting mild to moderate irritation, and hatred involving barely controlled fury. These categories also differ in terms of the contemptuousness of the descriptor used, with disappointment using neutral or positive descriptors, annoyance involving mild put-down descriptors (typically indicating stupidity), and hatred using dehumanizing descriptors. A few examples follow; the full list will be in an in-process book.


Disappointments​

The principal targets of Harry’s disappointments are his father, King Charles, and his grandmother, the late Queen Elizabeth. These mainly touch on their inability to express affection or to deviate from convention and rituals. The complaints here are relatively mild and involve a great deal of sympathy for the disappointer, due to the generally positive nature of the relationship and an understanding of the life circumstances (upbringing and social context) that made it difficult for them to behave otherwise.


  • Charles “had trouble communicating, trouble listening, trouble being intimate face-to-face.” (p. 31). Instead, when Charles wanted to express affection for or pride in Harry, he would put it in a letter and place it on his son’s pillow. Harry wished his father could have shown his love for him more directly, and expresses mild sadness at Charles’ inability to do so.
  • After the death of his mother, Princess Diana, Harry experienced “…the lack of stability, the lack of warmth, and love, in our home.” (p. 39). Harry expresses disappointment that his dad’s relationship with Camilla was diverting him from his kids at a time when they really needed him.
  • The Queen is generally exempt from Harry’s whines, except when she is described as a slave to tradition, unwilling to deviate from counsel provided by her conservative advisers. An example, which Harry considered ridiculous, was when she refused to allow his brother to keep his beard or wear his own regimental uniform when he married Kate because they violated protocol. (p. 184)

Annoyances​

Unlike disappointments, which involve regret rather than anger, annoyances involve momentary anger that does not threaten the positive relationship that the person continues to have with the annoyer. Most of the examples of this in Spare involve Harry’s brother, Prince William. After the two brothers married somewhat discordant spouses, however, the relationship began to fray and the anger became more intense.


  • William was described as unsympathetic to Harry’s emotional struggles, such as when he laughed at Harry’s sweating profusely after having a panic attack while delivering a speech (p. 236).
  • When Harry first joined his older brother at Eton, his feelings were hurt when “Willy told me to pretend I didn’t know him.” (p. 42)
  • When Harry started what became the Invictus Games, he thought he could count on a half-million-pound seed grant from the Royal Foundation, controlled by William and himself. He was startled when his brother objected, claiming it would use up too much money. “What was going on here? I wondered. Then I realized: My God, sibling rivalry. I put a hand over my eyes. Had we not got past this yet?” (p. 223)

Hatreds​

There are relatively few examples of overt hatred in Spare, and they mostly revolve around Harry’s all-consuming topic: the British tabloid press. He blames the tabloids for the death of his mother, for endlessly harassing him and his wife, and for publishing lies (many of them racist) constantly. Here are some examples:

Rebecca Brooks, the editor of the biggest tabloid, is described thusly: “Loathsome toad, I gathered. Everyone who knew her was in full agreement that she was an infected pustule on the arse of humanity, plus a **** excuse for a journalist.” (p. 70) He mostly refuses to use the names of people he hates, so he calls her “Rehabber Kooks.”
  • Harry had contempt for some of the PR people who worked for the Queen or for Charles and Camilla. Two hated assistants he refers to as “the bee and the wasp.” He characterizes them thusly: “I disliked these men, and they didn’t have any use for me… They considered me irrelevant at best, stupid at worst. Deep down, I feared that each man felt himself to be the One True Monarch, that each was taking advantage of a Queen in her nineties, enjoying his influential position while merely appearing to serve.” (p. 366)
  • He accuses Camilla of being cozy with the tabloid editors (who she entertained at Clarence House), using them to advance her campaign to become Queen Consort, in part by having an assistant plant stories critical of Harry and William (p. 361). It may be too strong to say he hates Camilla but he comes pretty close.

Conclusion​

Whining involves complaining about things that are inconsequential and part of life. The disappointments are not really whining; while perhaps ignorable, they are still interesting enough to include in a memoir. The hatreds are not really whining either, as they involve grave offenses that deserve to be attacked by anyone who has been thus offended. (Where these become whining is when they are unsupported by evidence, but that is beyond my scope here). For the most part, Harry’s whining (and the subject of most of his public disapproval) are the annoyances, which mainly involve family interactions which, however disputatious, are normally kept from public disclosure.

 
My sweet summer child…

you seem nice :lol:

(and thanks but sadly I‘m fairly certain I’m older than you :coolio: )
It's so unusual to see a snarky response from you, OB. Perhaps you didn't mean it to sound snarky and I'm projecting tone that isn't there. :hrmm:

Not that my opinion is worth anything but, you're both right. Social workers are not supposed to profile people however, if Harry has taught us anything, it is that we all operate with unconscious biases. Yes, even social workers. :shrugs:

On topic: can anyone tell me if M gets to choose her own outfit for the coronation? I'm just wondering if, like tiaras, things are chosen for her on this occasion based on historical significance and whatnot.
 
It's so unusual to see a snarky response from you, OB. Perhaps you didn't mean it to sound snarky and I'm projecting tone that isn't there. :hrmm:

Not that my opinion is worth anything but, you're both right. Social workers are not supposed to profile people however, if Harry has taught us anything, it is that we all operate with unconscious biases. Yes, even social workers. :shrugs:

On topic: can anyone tell me if M gets to choose her own outfit for the coronation? I'm just wondering if, like tiaras, things are chosen for her on this occasion based on historical significance and whatnot.
Since she never listens to anyone and has shown up at events wearing inappropriate attire, I’m more interested in seeing if, assuming of course that she is invited and shows up, she will once again insist on wearing something inappropriate and either be refused admittance or be forced to remove (like inappropriate head gear) or cover up the inappropriate attire.
 
Now this has come up again I was wondering if my earlier post was ambiguously phrased and would like to spell out that I mean that I consider the disproportionate removal of indigenous children from communities by social workers to be indicative that there are clear examples of sustained profiling.

Anyway, this is probably getting a bit away from my corny joke about how M and her mum only went to college to learn how to bag a rich guy.
Also, I would like to clarify that like M; I (like all mid-30s child brides) am definitely always the youngest person ever and cannot be held responsible for any of my decisions. Unless I do something viewed favourably and then I expect unlimited praise. :graucho:

Watch Hazz’s face.


Maybe it’s a deep fake cos I feel like I’d have seen this by now but this really is becoming the biggest feud people get behind isn’t it? Truly the dream cast for a live action Tangled remake.

I really struggle to get misty eyed about the royal kids honestly. I really think the media and royal fan community should leave them alone. Let them be kids and don’t idealise them or we are going to have more infantilised freaks like Andrew and Charles, or indeed HARRY, down the line.
 
I’m more interested in seeing if, assuming of course that she is invited and shows up
Oh is there any doubt? I'd say that they absolutely will be invited and they absolutely will show up. This is history in the making. There can't be talk of the King snubbing his son. They will be there, have no doubt, just as they were at the Jubilee and the funeral. They need the royal connection and couldn't care less if they look like hypocrites. They'll spin it to say they are rising above the drama and put aside their feelings of hurt to support the King on the day. Narcs will be narcs.

My concern is over security, given that he rattled the feathers of the Taliban. Still blows my mind. I would love for that to be used as a reason not to invite them. Unfortunately, it won't be. Fingers crossed for a strategically placed candle or two!
 
Yeah, I somehow doubt the British people were waiting for Princess Pinocchio's sister to save them.
I wouldn't be surprised if the idea to sue TW didn't come from SM. She may have been approached by others to sue. I would guess that the Court's ruling in the UK after all the evidence provided by Jason K. left many disappointed.
The Harkles seem to have been given a free pass to lie, hopefully this lawsuit will help put a stop to that.
 
Since she never listens to anyone and has shown up at events wearing inappropriate attire, I’m more interested in seeing if, assuming of course that she is invited and shows up, she will once again insist on wearing something inappropriate and either be refused admittance or be forced to remove (like inappropriate head gear) or cover up the inappropriate attire.
I knew I saw the potential outfit posted… :lol:

 
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