Oprah

[imgg]

I guess it would be more compelling if these women went to the police instead of their attorneys for a cash settlement. If I was assaulted my attorney would be the last call.

 

[mkr]

DAYUM it’s getting hot in here.

 

[berrydiva]

I guess it would be more compelling if these women went to the police instead of their attorneys for a cash settlement. If I was assaulted my attorney would be the last call.

When it comes to people who are wealthy and have power the police are often useless and unwilling to do much. Plus, they can be bought just as easily as you speak of these women.

Unless an accusation was fresh as in I had DNA evidence still or a recording of some type, I doubt I'd go to the cops first...I'd definitely seek my legal counsel first. Especially, if it were against someone rich/powerful. But then again, I don't have much faith in the police to begin with based on experience so YMMV.

 

[imgg]

When it comes to people who are wealthy and have power the police are often useless and unwilling to do much. Plus, they can be bought just as easily as you speak of these women.

Unless an accusation was fresh as in I had DNA evidence still or a recording of some type, I doubt I'd go to the cops first...I'd definitely seek my legal counsel first. Especially, if it were against someone rich/powerful. But then again, I don't have much faith in the police to begin with based on experience so YMMV.

You are probably right in some situations, but I think its a slippery slope to convict people in the media without any evidence. It leaves the door open for anyone to say anything if that person does not support their "agenda". It's scary to me this is happening. I support women and know harassment is happening everywhere. It needs to stop, but we also need proof before we can convict someone. Some men are pigs and some women lie. We should take it case by case and not convict until we have the facts.

Call me old fashion or whatever, but I also think it is important to use common sense. I would not meet ANY male for a meeting in their hotel room, I would meet in the lobby or at a public meeting place, not where there is a bed for sleeping and for you know what. I am not saying that gives them an excuse, but you need to be smart.

 

[Charles]

You are probably right in some situations, but I think its a slippery slope to convict people in the media without any evidence. It leaves the door open for anyone to say anything if that person does not support their "agenda". It's scary to me this is happening. I support women and know harassment is happening everywhere. It needs to stop, but we also need proof before we can convict someone. Some men are pigs and some women lie. We should take it case by case and not convict until we have the facts.

When women start making false claims on the reg, we'll address that issue. As it stands, now, women have been blamed and swept under the rug for years and years. People had been talking about Cosby for 35 years and what happened? It had to take a man to talk about it in his comedy routine, 15 years after Cosby left the spotlight, for people to listen. Brock Allen took a half passed out woman behind a dumpster to rape her. He was caught in the act by two passers by, he was convicted, but only sentenced to 6 months cause the judge didn't want his lapse in judgement to ruin his life. He only served 3 months. Women are harassed relentlessly by friends and family of the assaulter until they drop the case. Rape/assault cases and go unreported cause women are scared of what will happen to them. Women have killed themselves over the treatment they've received. That's the kind of $h1t women have been dealing with. So pardon me for supporting someone who chooses to put themselves in that situation by coming out.
Also, these women aren't seeking anything. They don't want money. This isn't the court of law, so there are no criminal convictions. These women just want to let other women know they're not alone and let other women know who the predators are and let men know that they're going to stop being silent.
Serious question. Can you name any of the recent allegations that have been shown as false? How many of the men have pursued trying to clear their name?

Call me old fashion or whatever, but I also think it is important to use common sense. I would not meet ANY male for a meeting in their hotel room, I would meet in the lobby or at a public meeting place, not where there is a bed for sleeping and for you know what. I am not saying that gives them an excuse, but you need to be smart.

Again, you don't understand how Hollywood works. People are always traveling and in hotels and under time restraints. A quick meeting in so and so's room isn't unusual. And usually, there are other people around. The issue is when the person with power sends those people away so it's just the two of them. You severely underestimate how vulnerable and scared people might feel when they realize that it's possible the people they saw who they thought would protect her, now could be the ones making sure she doesn't get away. This literally is like a predator/prey situation. How many animals know they're walking into a situation in which they're not going to return from. That's how predators work. They make the prey feel comfortable and relaxed...then they pounce.
There are so many nuances when it comes to sexual assault, you simply can't sit there and say "well, she shouldn't have gone there" or "she shouldn't have done that", when all that really needs to be said is that the man shouldn't have assaulted her. That's what this is about. Letting men know they're losing their power of silence over their victims. That is very important. When men know their victims won't be silent, part of their power over them is lost. When the power is lost, they won't assault.

 

[Murphy47]

When women start making false claims on the reg, we'll address that issue. As it stands, now, women have been blamed and swept under the rug for years and years. People had been talking about Cosby for 35 years and what happened? It had to take a man to talk about it in his comedy routine, 15 years after Cosby left the spotlight, for people to listen. Brock Allen took a half passed out woman behind a dumpster to rape her. He was caught in the act by two passers by, he was convicted, but only sentenced to 6 months cause the judge didn't want his lapse in judgement to ruin his life. He only served 3 months. Women are harassed relentlessly by friends and family of the assaulter until they drop the case. Rape/assault cases and go unreported cause women are scared of what will happen to them. Women have killed themselves over the treatment they've received. That's the kind of $h1t women have been dealing with. So pardon me for supporting someone who chooses to put themselves in that situation by coming out.
Also, these women aren't seeking anything. They don't want money. This isn't the court of law, so there are no criminal convictions. These women just want to let other women know they're not alone and let other women know who the predators are and let men know that they're going to stop being silent.
Serious question. Can you name any of the recent allegations that have been shown as false? How many of the men have pursued trying to clear their name?



Again, you don't understand how Hollywood works. People are always traveling and in hotels and under time restraints. A quick meeting in so and so's room isn't unusual. And usually, there are other people around. The issue is when the person with power sends those people away so it's just the two of them. You severely underestimate how vulnerable and scared people might feel when they realize that it's possible the people they saw who they thought would protect her, now could be the ones making sure she doesn't get away. This literally is like a predator/prey situation. How many animals know they're walking into a situation in which they're not going to return from. That's how predators work. They make the prey feel comfortable and relaxed...then they pounce.
There are so many nuances when it comes to sexual assault, you simply can't sit there and say "well, she shouldn't have gone there" or "she shouldn't have done that", when all that really needs to be said is that the man shouldn't have assaulted her. That's what this is about. Letting men know they're losing their power of silence over their victims. That is very important. When men know their victims won't be silent, part of their power over them is lost. When the power is lost, they won't assault.

Best explanation I’ve ever heard!

 

[Babydoll Chanel]

When women start making false claims on the reg, we'll address that issue. As it stands, now, women have been blamed and swept under the rug for years and years. People had been talking about Cosby for 35 years and what happened? It had to take a man to talk about it in his comedy routine, 15 years after Cosby left the spotlight, for people to listen. Brock Allen took a half passed out woman behind a dumpster to rape her. He was caught in the act by two passers by, he was convicted, but only sentenced to 6 months cause the judge didn't want his lapse in judgement to ruin his life. He only served 3 months. Women are harassed relentlessly by friends and family of the assaulter until they drop the case. Rape/assault cases and go unreported cause women are scared of what will happen to them. Women have killed themselves over the treatment they've received. That's the kind of $h1t women have been dealing with. So pardon me for supporting someone who chooses to put themselves in that situation by coming out.
Also, these women aren't seeking anything. They don't want money. This isn't the court of law, so there are no criminal convictions. These women just want to let other women know they're not alone and let other women know who the predators are and let men know that they're going to stop being silent.
Serious question. Can you name any of the recent allegations that have been shown as false? How many of the men have pursued trying to clear their name?



Again, you don't understand how Hollywood works. People are always traveling and in hotels and under time restraints. A quick meeting in so and so's room isn't unusual. And usually, there are other people around. The issue is when the person with power sends those people away so it's just the two of them. You severely underestimate how vulnerable and scared people might feel when they realize that it's possible the people they saw who they thought would protect her, now could be the ones making sure she doesn't get away. This literally is like a predator/prey situation. How many animals know they're walking into a situation in which they're not going to return from. That's how predators work. They make the prey feel comfortable and relaxed...then they pounce.
There are so many nuances when it comes to sexual assault, you simply can't sit there and say "well, she shouldn't have gone there" or "she shouldn't have done that", when all that really needs to be said is that the man shouldn't have assaulted her. That's what this is about. Letting men know they're losing their power of silence over their victims. That is very important. When men know their victims won't be silent, part of their power over them is lost. When the power is lost, they won't assault.

Thank you Charles, for articulating this so well!

 

[sdkitty]

When women start making false claims on the reg, we'll address that issue. As it stands, now, women have been blamed and swept under the rug for years and years. People had been talking about Cosby for 35 years and what happened? It had to take a man to talk about it in his comedy routine, 15 years after Cosby left the spotlight, for people to listen. Brock Allen took a half passed out woman behind a dumpster to rape her. He was caught in the act by two passers by, he was convicted, but only sentenced to 6 months cause the judge didn't want his lapse in judgement to ruin his life. He only served 3 months. Women are harassed relentlessly by friends and family of the assaulter until they drop the case. Rape/assault cases and go unreported cause women are scared of what will happen to them. Women have killed themselves over the treatment they've received. That's the kind of $h1t women have been dealing with. So pardon me for supporting someone who chooses to put themselves in that situation by coming out.
Also, these women aren't seeking anything. They don't want money. This isn't the court of law, so there are no criminal convictions. These women just want to let other women know they're not alone and let other women know who the predators are and let men know that they're going to stop being silent.
Serious question. Can you name any of the recent allegations that have been shown as false? How many of the men have pursued trying to clear their name?



Again, you don't understand how Hollywood works. People are always traveling and in hotels and under time restraints. A quick meeting in so and so's room isn't unusual. And usually, there are other people around. The issue is when the person with power sends those people away so it's just the two of them. You severely underestimate how vulnerable and scared people might feel when they realize that it's possible the people they saw who they thought would protect her, now could be the ones making sure she doesn't get away. This literally is like a predator/prey situation. How many animals know they're walking into a situation in which they're not going to return from. That's how predators work. They make the prey feel comfortable and relaxed...then they pounce.
There are so many nuances when it comes to sexual assault, you simply can't sit there and say "well, she shouldn't have gone there" or "she shouldn't have done that", when all that really needs to be said is that the man shouldn't have assaulted her. That's what this is about. Letting men know they're losing their power of silence over their victims. That is very important. When men know their victims won't be silent, part of their power over them is lost. When the power is lost, they won't assault.

I'm sure most of the women are credible. But should every man who is accused of behaving inappropriately in the past be ruined? What about the case of Aziz Ansari? Seems there was consensual sex and now years later she says it was too rough. Should his career be over?

 

[imgg]

I'm sure most of the women are credible. But should every man who is accused of behaving inappropriately in the past be ruined? What about the case of Aziz Ansari? Seems there was consensual sex and now years later she says it was too rough. Should his career be over?

Also you can not address one side without the other. Working in the corporate world most of my life I have seen women using their sexuality over and over again to get a promotion, special attention etc. People are KIDDING themselves if they don't think high-powered and celebrity men don't have women constantly flocking all over them. You really think women who use sex to gain a promotion are not the same ones crying sour grapes to gain a payout?

Again, I am not saying this is the situation ALL THE TIME, but it happens enough to go back to what our country is founded on, innocent until proven guilty.

 

[berrydiva]

You are probably right in some situations, but I think its a slippery slope to convict people in the media without any evidence. It leaves the door open for anyone to say anything if that person does not support their "agenda". It's scary to me this is happening. I support women and know harassment is happening everywhere. It needs to stop, but we also need proof before we can convict someone. Some men are pigs and some women lie. We should take it case by case and not convict until we have the facts.

I don't disagree and people should be convicted based on evidence. However, in many cases like these where the man is rich and powerful, his "conviction" comes in the form of the public shaming. They have lawyers to get them out of the crime, they have money to buy law enforcement, and they mostly have the power to control the narrative. Are there women who lie? Absolutely. Are there women who use sex to gain an advantage? Absolutely. However, that also doesn't mean those same women can't be sexually violated.

Call me old fashion or whatever, but I also think it is important to use common sense. I would not meet ANY male for a meeting in their hotel room, I would meet in the lobby or at a public meeting place, not where there is a bed for sleeping and for you know what. I am not saying that gives them an excuse, but you need to be smart.

This isn't called old fashioned, it's just called victim blaming. It's the same logic that some people use to say a woman was dressed a certain way and therefore she contributed to her being sexually violated. I know folks roll their eyes when I harp on the idea of dressing like a slut but women passively allow these behaviors by reinforcing how men should value women based on their short skirt. Should everyone use good judgement? Yes. Does everyone use good judgement? No. That doesn't mean that one should be violated in any way for a momentary judgement lapse.

 

[berrydiva]

it happens enough to go back to what our country is founded on, innocent until proven guilty.

This is laughable and so rose colored. I'd like to see us actually get to this theoretical fundamental one day.

 

[imgg]

I don't disagree and people should be convicted based on evidence. However, in many cases like these where the man is rich and powerful, his "conviction" comes in the form of the public shaming. They have lawyers to get them out of the crime, they have money to buy law enforcement, and they mostly have the power to control the narrative. Are there women who lie? Absolutely. Are there women who use sex to gain an advantage? Absolutely. However, that also doesn't mean those same women can't be sexually violated.

This isn't called old fashioned, it's just called victim blaming. It's the same logic that some people use to say a woman was dressed a certain way and therefore she contributed to her being sexually violated. I know folks roll their eyes when I harp on the idea of dressing like a slut but women passively allow these behaviors by reinforcing how men should value women based on their short skirt. Should everyone use good judgement? Yes. Does everyone use good judgement? No. That doesn't mean that one should be violated in any way for a momentary judgement lapse.

As I stated, it doesn't give them an excuse. Stop twisting my words again.

 

[berrydiva]

As I stated, it doesn't give them an excuse. Stop twisting my words again.

I'm not twisting your words...I'm using your words nor did I say it gave them an excuse. Go reread what I wrote and take your emotion out of it this time.

Perhaps you can point out exactly where you feel your words are being twisted so I can better articulate....but my intention is to address your statements with a counterpoint using your words (perhaps phrased differently)

 

[imgg]

This is laughable and so rose colored. I'd like to see us actually get to this theoretical fundamental one day.

True, it is in todays society. When the media gets an "agenda" facts no longer seems to apply. Like a poster stated which several liked "no one cares what some z celebrity has to say" - unless it supports their agenda. It's no longer about facts, it about crucifying people to support the current agenda regardless of facts. That is a scary place to be in this county.

 

[berrydiva]

True, it is in todays society. When the media gets an "agenda" facts no longer seems to apply. Like a poster stated which several liked "no one cares what some z celebrity has to say" - unless it supports their agenda. It's no longer about facts, it about crucifying people to support the current agenda regardless of facts. That is a scary place to be in this county.

Why do you think this is a construct of "today's society"? This has been going on since there was media....this is not new. The fact that people have been tried in the court of public opinion is not a new concept. I can replace z-list celeb with any "underrepresented" group and apply it to impact greater than Hollywood.