My opinion of Hermes is changing...

[Luvbolide]

Although I was critical of and disappointed by how Hermes handled the skunk bags issue, without being an apologist for the brand, I do think this particular problem was unprecedented and most H boutiques probably had no idea how to deal with the problem and left the decision making to the individual boutiques and managers.

I still do prefer Hermes to other luxury accessory brands because I've also had problems with quality and servicing issues with other competitive luxury brands like Bottega and Chanel (e.g. loose stitching on a new Cabat that took almost one year to replace and which they wanted me to pay for, when it was clearly a basic product defect.)

These experiences lead me to conclude that almost all luxury brands today will fall victim to the overwhelming demand vs. compromised quality problem. When a company expands, unfortunately these things are bound to happen.

Although at Hermes price points, we as customers certainly do not expect to have skunk problems, inferior quality of cashmere, etc...the reality is, there is such an overwhelming demand for Hermes products that they can now continue to "under-deliver" on quality and service and people will still clamour for their in-demand products. I would guess that for every 1 disillusioned "old/loyal' customer, they are able to attract 2 new ones in maybe the younger, new wealth markets.

I miss the "old" way Hermes produced its goods (although I don't think Hermes was ever consistently warm and fuzzy in its customer service so in that sense not much has changed LOL) but I recognise that ultimately, the only thing that matters for H is the bottom line and the expansion of their business and their domination of the luxury sector.

Can I live that? Yes I admit, I can. I'm disappointed but not enough to stop from buying their products.

I agree totally with your points - including the last one. While I think it is sadly true that H's standards are falling, I believe that they are still at the top of the heap...and I will continue buying.

 

[Nahreen]

SOOO Well said!

And this newer clientele perhaps has different needs and is attracted to Hermes for VERY different reasons compared to the "older" customer base.

And for better or worse, I fear Hermes is responding to meet the needs of this newer demographics who, in my personal opinion, aren't so big on quality but are more keen to be seen as "wearing Hermes, THE expensive luxury brand."

I mean even on this forum, having been here since 2006, I've seen the dynamics change. Whereas before there was much ooh-ing and aah-ing over the "intangibles"....the beauty of even the most minute things like the stitching, the soft texture of the various leathers, the symmetry of scales or follicles, there were more of those discussion before.

Now there's more threads about "what is the hottest and newest H colour that I should look for??" "Should I buy this? Is this hard to get? Will this have a high resale value?"

In general, I'm sensing less interest today on the H heritage & history, the old world feel and "stealth wealth-ness" of Hermes. It's now more about THE BRAND.

I had no idea people choose items based on hottest colours and resale value. I personally only buy things I love but my financial sources are not bottomless and work hard to afford these items and therefore I have to choose carefully on all beautiful thing available.

 

[ladysarah]

But as a larger issue of general quality, Hermes does not have to compete with the Hermes of old.

Ultimately that's what it comes down too. Times are changing and I wasn't around in the old days to enjoy... My husband visited today and the service was impeccable by our standards, (Friday afternoon, in London, which is a fairly busy time)

 

[bostonbirkin]

Although I was treated horribly when I approached the boutique with my skunk, I have been trying very hard not to let that experience taint my view of Hermes a company.

I am with you dear...I think you should replace your bag... order an SO in CHEVRE

Can't wait to hear what you picked... if u want to disclose of course....xo

I ordered a Birkin 30 Blue De Malte exterior and Rouge H interior (I think Rouge H interior we also discussed a lighter interior)
I was so overwhelmed with all the choices. It will be Clemence exterior and Chèvre interior because they don't do Chèvre exterior Birkin

 

[Nico_79]

Doesn't surprise me that Hermes is the latest brand to fall victim. We've seen this with all the luxury houses as they try to keep up with increasing demand. Customers are caring less about quality and more about amassing a collection.

Personally, after dealing with two skunks, I feel a lot of anxiety more than excitement. I mean it's not like we're spending a couple of hundred here, it's thousands! For me, that's a lot of money to go into a piece of cow hide. The only saving grace has been the customer service I received from my boutique, my SA and SM have been nothing short of wonderful so it lessens the pain of the ordeal. I still love Hermes, but will be very careful with what I choose to purchase going forward.

 

[VigeeLeBrun]

Doesn't surprise me that Hermes is the latest brand to fall victim. We've seen this with all the luxury houses as they try to keep up with increasing demand. Customers are caring less about quality and more about amassing a collection.

Personally, after dealing with two skunks, I feel a lot of anxiety more than excitement. I mean it's not like we're spending a couple of hundred here, it's thousands! For me, that's a lot of money to go into a piece of cow hide. The only saving grace has been the customer service I received from my boutique, my SA and SM have been nothing short of wonderful so it lessens the pain of the ordeal. I still love Hermes, but will be very careful with what I choose to purchase going forward.

THIS. Thanks, Nico!

 

[rainnebeauxday]

I mean even on this forum, having been here since 2006, I've seen the dynamics change. Whereas before there was much ooh-ing and aah-ing over the "intangibles"....the beauty of even the most minute things like the stitching, the soft texture of the various leathers, the symmetry of scales or follicles, there were more of those discussion before.


In general, I'm sensing less interest today on the H heritage & history, the old world feel and "stealth wealth-ness" of Hermes. It's now more about THE BRAND.

I am new to buying from Hermes, because only now can I afford it. I was always interested in it because of the exact things that you mentioned above; the detail and quality. So far I have been impressed with the quality of the purchases that I have made from them (jewelry, shawl, scarf, perfume), but I have none of their older items to compare it to. I was hoping to buy a Lindy, Halzan...something along those lines in the coming year, but maybe I should stick to non-bag items. I am a bit intimidated to buy vintage as I don't know exactly what I should be looking for, I like to start with buying new from a brand and then start buying vintage (which is what I did with Balenciaga). This thread has been enlightening.

 

[bostonbirkin]

You make some good points here. I think you're right that the skunk issue is unprecedented and the individual stores probably didn't get good guidance (at least not at the beginning) re. how to deal with the issue.

But as a larger issue of general quality, Hermes does not have to compete with the Hermes of old. Yes, they will lose some older, longtime customers but those customers are far outnumbered by the new wealthy clientele coming in. H doesn't have to compete with its older self, it only has to compete with other current luxury brands, and most of them seem to be having problems as well.

100% agree, CatsintheBag!!!! "Our girl' in Boston took such great care of me!!
Based on the music I listen to she was unsure if I had a 'smoke' the first time she smelled it. I really do think the SA and SM that help you (or don't help in some cases) with this unusual bag issue makes ALL the difference in how this Hermes Leather problem effects your long term relationship with Hermes. Ultimately, the people I have the relationship with are not based in France but Boston

 

[Israeli_Flava]

100% agree, CatsintheBag!!!! "Our girl' in Boston took such great care of me!!
Based on the music I listen to she was unsure if I had a 'smoke' the first time she smelled it. I really do think the SA and SM that help you (or don't help in some cases) with this unusual bag issue makes ALL the difference in how this Hermes Leather problem effects your long term relationship with Hermes. Ultimately, the people I have the relationship with are not based in France but Boston

Without a doubt!

 

[Gixxer]

Second story, my recent Faubourg adventure...
Oscar winning HORROR experience.

I am not a known customer there, although I have randomly bought a few very nice bags over the years...including some very rare (and expensive) ones.

Here am and I very happy to be in Paris again, I head to Faubourg in the hope of getting a Croc Kelly. A bag I really want...and quite fits my customer habits.
As soon as I enter the store a very nice male SA makes eye contact with me which alreday is nice. I make my request to him. He says he will take me to the right dept, and ask me to "queue here please , only three people and it will be your turn". OOPS.... is this a luxury store or Water and Power office ?
Fortunately my turn comes. I repeat my request to the impassible young lady that is in charge of getting requests, and she say " Oh, no less ? A croc Kelly ? Please come with me. "....and she takes me to a little leather chair and asks me to wait here ..."someone will come" I think she is rude but worse is coming... And I wait.
After almost 15 minutes, come a very young girl, with NO EXPRESSION on her face, and she points her chin at me like " may I help you" but with no sound..I don't say a word. I am waiting for at least a plain Hello, but nothing comes . She points her chin at me again with no sound. My own daughter would behave that way, she would get corrected immediately.
Finally I say : "Good afternoon, I am here to purchase a Crocodile Kelly"
Still with no expression on her face she gives a little piece of paper and her pen and asks me to write down my name . Not even a please ... I am totally speechless...and almost breathless.
I simply can't believe Hermes is taking care of their clients in such a way.
I think to myself that I can't buy anything from this store even if she gets back with my dream Croc Kelly...
But of course she comes back after 10 minutes with her no expressive face and no bag . Sorry we haven't received any today. I feel kind of relieved. I would have hated spending even a dime in that store.
But the sneaky no expression faced girl can't help and add, actually we have no Kelly, no Birkin today. And of course I can't help but answer : Not interested in any Birkin, only a Crocodile Kelly.

I leave with a smile but not a word,
and head to the RTW dpt, which is upstairs, a good 200 square meters of desert display, where two desperate SAs try to satisfy any of my needs, write down references and colors for me, bring coffee and sparkling water with a smile, and needless to say know how to say Hello, Good afternoon, May I help you, and Thank you for visiting. Curiously, They do not use their chin to make contact with you.

This is horrifying. I could not even edit your post. It is worth repeating. Interestingly, I don't believe that your scenario is mutually exclusive from this:

...

And this newer clientele perhaps has different needs and is attracted to Hermes for VERY different reasons compared to the "older" customer base.

And for better or worse, I fear Hermes is responding to meet the needs of this newer demographics who, in my personal opinion, aren't so big on quality but are more keen to be seen as "wearing Hermes, THE expensive luxury brand."

I mean even on this forum, having been here since 2006, I've seen the dynamics change. Whereas before there was much ooh-ing and aah-ing over the "intangibles"....the beauty of even the most minute things like the stitching, the soft texture of the various leathers, the symmetry of scales or follicles, there were more of those discussion before.

Now there's more threads about "what is the hottest and newest H colour that I should look for??" "Should I buy this? Is this hard to get? Will this have a high resale value?"

In general, I'm sensing less interest today on the H heritage & history, the old world feel and "stealth wealth-ness" of Hermes. It's now more about THE BRAND.

If anyone wants to open more threads about design, construction, craftsmanship, and leather quality, I'd be happy to read them.

Reading the Paris trip for Birkin thread amongst others makes me imagine the global flagship store - of what should be a venerable, civilised, design house, being not dissimilar to a zoo: people throwing tantrums and shedding tears (it's a bag!); queuing like cattle; spoken with mute derision when finally attended to.

Once upon a time it was about having the Best Produced Bag in the world. It seems in the process of making the Prettiest Candy Colour in the Largest Quantity to fulfil Market Demand, that doesn't really consider Heritage or Tradition, something went awry.

There's a link to a Forbes article in the Hermes in Print thread, where a Dumas discussed a story. I think that's the one. In it, he noted that in 2007, when the price of gold skyrocketed, they actually thought about adding less gold to the hardware. Presumably to save money (because they make so little, obviously) or retain/increase margin. When a senior craftsman (how many if these are left in their dozen new production facilities?) said that it would patina differently, they refused to change the formulation. That was apparently a good bit of company PR within the article.

The concerning thing here is not that they retained the formulation, but that they would even consider changing the production process at all to offset increasing cost inputs. If they can do it to the hardware then it's not a long bow to draw that nothing about the production is sacred. Isn't that why we accept extortionate price increases? Because we think that they're conserving the integrity of their craftsmanship and not cutting corners? If this is a public documented case by a major shareholder and 6th generation family member, then imagine the other areas in production that have had their methodology 'adjusted' to account for 'greater efficiency, productivity, or profit'? Its therefore not out of the question to conclude these Skunk Bags may be a byproduct of this. The negative outcome just wasn't anticipated before they hit the shelves.

Maybe I'm catastrophising.

ETA: quote is from Alex Dumas accessible here: http://www.wmagazine.com/fashion/2014/08/axel-dumas-hermes-ceo/
"The final tab? Not important, Dumas says, adding, “We never make any decision based on cost.” He recalls that in 2007, when the price of gold skyrocketed, some considered reducing the percentage of gold in the handbag closures. Then a senior craftsman told Dumas that in five years the cheaper clasps might not have the same patina as the classic ones. “That was it—we kept things the same,” Dumas says."

I originally saw it in post #1429 here thank you jula http://forum.purseblog.com/hermes/hermes-in-print-38218-96.html

 

[Chestnutty]

Honestly, I think it is a "generational" thing. I know many long-time collectors who have stopped or dramatically slowed on buying GMs. It is easier to do when one has many of the older pieces to fall back on! I do agree that there are lots of TPFers buying GMs, but my own sense is that quite of them are newer collectors.

LuvBolide - I think to me, the number of GM I'm buying declined recently has more to do with colorways rather than cashmere quality. For the past 3 seasons, the colorways are either obnoxiously bright or awfully muddy, or a to-the-face mix of both, not elegant like they used to be... Must be to serve the new younger client base. Ruined several nice designs already (Sous l'Egide de Mars and Peuple du Vent, for example). Very sad.
Vent over. I'm saving money anyway.

 

[Hermes Nuttynut]

Regarding the skunk bags, did they ever get to the root of the problem? Was it an issue with the tannery itself? Do they know if there were toxic chemicals involved, and if so, did they determine the specifics? Did any other leather luxury goods providers have a similar issue? If there were different chemicals used, this would have much greater implications than just the quality of Hermes' production. There are environmental issues as well.

Please forgive me if these questions have already been answered, and thank you in advance for any information you have.

 

[Juda]

LuvBolide - I think to me, the number of GM I'm buying declined recently has more to do with colorways rather than cashmere quality. For the past 3 seasons, the colorways are either obnoxiously bright or awfully muddy, or a to-the-face mix of both, not elegant like they used to be... Must be to serve the new client base in Asia (no offense, I'm Asian myself). Ruined several nice designs already (Sous l'Egide de Mars and Peuple du Vent, for example). Very sad.

I totally agree with you - I am facing the same issues with GMS s and 90 silk twills.
I couldn't have said it better than Leah.
Unfortunately Perlerare, I totally understand what you mean, this is becoming the norm not the exception (not only with SAs but with SMs as well).

Whether our opinion of Hermes changes or not - it is very personal.
But I really hope Hermes opinion changes of themselves (Higher management and boutique staff).

 

[bostonbirkin]

Regarding the skunk bags, did they ever get to the root of the problem? Was it an issue with the tannery itself? Do they know if there were toxic chemicals involved, and if so, did they determine the specifics? Did any other leather luxury goods providers have a similar issue? If there were different chemicals used, this would have much greater implications than just the quality of Hermes' production. There are environmental issues as well.

Please forgive me if these questions have already been answered, and thank you in advance for any information you have.

Great Question. IMO I doubt Hermes will ever reveal what offending chemical was utilized.
I wish they would for all the reasons you stated.

 

[catsinthebag]

I am new to buying from Hermes, because only now can I afford it. I was always interested in it because of the exact things that you mentioned above; the detail and quality. So far I have been impressed with the quality of the purchases that I have made from them (jewelry, shawl, scarf, perfume), but I have none of their older items to compare it to. I was hoping to buy a Lindy, Halzan...something along those lines in the coming year, but maybe I should stick to non-bag items. I am a bit intimidated to buy vintage as I don't know exactly what I should be looking for, I like to start with buying new from a brand and then start buying vintage (which is what I did with Balenciaga). This thread has been enlightening.

rainneday, I used to be afraid to buy vintage as well, but this forum is so helpful, and I now have two vintage Kellys after never buying a pre-owned bag EVER. I'd recommend starting by browsing the recommended retailers -- take your time and really notice what catches your eye. And needless to say, always have a bag authenticated before you bid or buy. I went from thinking I'd only buy new from boutique to really appreciating the older bags. Never thought that would happen!