My opinion of Hermes is changing...

[jmen]

Yes

Any idea how many boutiques they have opened in the last 5 years? how long they take to train a leather craftsman, now?

Leather craftsmen or women train for 5 years. My SA mentioned the training period when I was doing a SO.

As far as the smelly leather I would bet my knickers Hermes was unaware of the deviation in the tanning process from the vendor(s). I would venture a guess the vendor(s) were raked over the proverbial coals and Hermes said either change that process or we will source a new vendor(s). There is no way Hermes is taking this lightly. While clients have to wait for a replacement, at least Hermes did not say there is no problem as far as we are concerned.

 

[Leah]

Although I was critical of and disappointed by how Hermes handled the skunk bags issue, without being an apologist for the brand, I do think this particular problem was unprecedented and most H boutiques probably had no idea how to deal with the problem and left the decision making to the individual boutiques and managers.

I still do prefer Hermes to other luxury accessory brands because I've also had problems with quality and servicing issues with other competitive luxury brands like Bottega and Chanel (e.g. loose stitching on a new Cabat that took almost one year to replace and which they wanted me to pay for, when it was clearly a basic product defect.)

These experiences lead me to conclude that almost all luxury brands today will fall victim to the overwhelming demand vs. compromised quality problem. When a company expands, unfortunately these things are bound to happen.

Although at Hermes price points, we as customers certainly do not expect to have skunk problems, inferior quality of cashmere, etc...the reality is, there is such an overwhelming demand for Hermes products that they can now continue to "under-deliver" on quality and service and people will still clamour for their in-demand products. I would guess that for every 1 disillusioned "old/loyal' customer, they are able to attract 2 new ones in maybe the younger, new wealth markets.

I miss the "old" way Hermes produced its goods (although I don't think Hermes was ever consistently warm and fuzzy in its customer service so in that sense not much has changed LOL) but I recognise that ultimately, the only thing that matters for H is the bottom line and the expansion of their business and their domination of the luxury sector.

Can I live that? Yes I admit, I can. I'm disappointed but not enough to stop from buying their products.

 

[Israeli_Flava]

Well, I lasted 24 hours with the idea of not replacing my bag. I am going to order another SO Birkin Bicolor but not in Togo.
I have an appt with my SA tomorrow to reorder.

Although I was treated horribly when I approached the boutique with my skunk, I have been trying very hard not to let that experience taint my view of Hermes a company.

I am with you dear...I think you should replace your bag... order an SO in CHEVRE

Can't wait to hear what you picked... if u want to disclose of course....xo

 

[Israeli_Flava]

I ve always had excellent service- and I am not even a regular.

Me too...until I had a problem. And I AM a regular.

 

[MarvelGirl]

Honestly, I think it is a "generational" thing. I know many long-time collectors who have stopped or dramatically slowed on buying GMs. It is easier to do when one has many of the older pieces to fall back on! I do agree that there are lots of TPFers buying GMs, but my own sense is that quite of them are newer collectors.

New vs. Old vs. Generational. I suppose it doesn't really matter as long as GMs are still getting purchased. Judging by the GM thread, most of us seem to be pleased and happy with our purchases. And at least the GMs haven't had the fragrant odor of skunk or weed that can't be removed yet like the leathers. Until that happens, I guess the GM buying frenzy will continue!

 

[perlerare]

Please do share your experience at FSH. Intrigued to know.

Me too... Please share.

.........

So here are 2 stories .

One takes place an early afternoon of july 2014 , Hermes store south of France.

I have bough my very first bH bag in that store back in the early 90's ...I never ceased to be a loyal client of that store. Boots, RTW, blest, shawls, bags, Special orders, SLG...everything....
Out of my car, I head to the doorstep of the store.... and guess what ? the guard has locked the door and gives me a very informal sign like come back later, the store is packed with people.... WHAT ?????
I make a sigh in return and scream through the glass door :
Open this door NOW please as I am YOUR customer, and my Sa called me to come and pick up an item I have ordered.
Of course the guy opens the door and I immediately tell my Sa they should hire a physionomist, just like in night clubs, to make sure they don't treat more of their loyal clients that way.... Why on earth should I have to wait outside of the store ? Is this luxury shopping ? or just the contrary ?

 

[VigeeLeBrun]

I don't want to throw a bucket of cold water over you, but we did go through quality issues and a big outcry with the silk/cashmere GMs already. The quality of the cashmere noticeably slipped - the cashmere is now thinner and both runs and pills more easily.

In many ways the outcome was the same...many of us have slowed down on the purchases of new ones and we buy/treasure our older ones.

It is perhaps inevitable for a company expanding by bounds, but it is sad to see quality slipping at one of the last few luxury houses...

Luvbolide, I am going to have to agree with you here 100%. Dare I say it? Yes, my newer GMs get runs and pulls in them much more frequently even though I baby them to death. They do seem thinner than my older ones, although I haven't done a weight test. This has caused me so much concern that I will not buy a new GM unless I am absolutely overwhelmed by the design and this hasn't happened yet. I would much rather buy a new older GM from re-seller and pay a little more. My GM funds have gone to XL 140cm silks and I am trying them out this season.

I have had great luck this year with my new H bags. None have had skunk issues but I will add that going forward the only H bags that interest me are new chèvre or a teenage vintage. My collection is quite complete and I don't use my bags daily, so it might be awhile before I look for something "new".

As far as corporate H and the way they handled this skunk issue, it has been a debacle as far as I am concerned. Too little, too late and to read about the treatment fellow TPFers have experienced with their skunk bags doesn't leave any sympathy for H for me ~ or my wallet.

 

[catsinthebag]

Although I was critical of and disappointed by how Hermes handled the skunk bags issue, without being an apologist for the brand, I do think this particular problem was unprecedented and most H boutiques probably had no idea how to deal with the problem and left the decision making to the individual boutiques and managers.

I still do prefer Hermes to other luxury accessory brands because I've also had problems with quality and servicing issues with other competitive luxury brands like Bottega and Chanel (e.g. loose stitching on a new Cabat that took almost one year to replace and which they wanted me to pay for, when it was clearly a basic product defect.)

These experiences lead me to conclude that almost all luxury brands today will fall victim to the overwhelming demand vs. compromised quality problem. When a company expands, unfortunately these things are bound to happen.

Although at Hermes price points, we as customers certainly do not expect to have skunk problems, inferior quality of cashmere, etc...the reality is, there is such an overwhelming demand for Hermes products that they can now continue to "under-deliver" on quality and service and people will still clamour for their in-demand products. I would guess that for every 1 disillusioned "old/loyal' customer, they are able to attract 2 new ones in maybe the younger, new wealth markets.

I miss the "old" way Hermes produced its goods (although I don't think Hermes was ever consistently warm and fuzzy in its customer service so in that sense not much has changed LOL) but I recognise that ultimately, the only thing that matters for H is the bottom line and the expansion of their business and their domination of the luxury sector.

Can I live that? Yes I admit, I can. I'm disappointed but not enough to stop from buying their products.

You make some good points here. I think you're right that the skunk issue is unprecedented and the individual stores probably didn't get good guidance (at least not at the beginning) re. how to deal with the issue.

But as a larger issue of general quality, Hermes does not have to compete with the Hermes of old. Yes, they will lose some older, longtime customers but those customers are far outnumbered by the new wealthy clientele coming in. H doesn't have to compete with its older self, it only has to compete with other current luxury brands, and most of them seem to be having problems as well.

 

[perlerare]

Second story, my recent Faubourg adventure...
Oscar winning HORROR experience.

I am not a known customer there, although I have randomly bought a few very nice bags over the years...including some very rare (and expensive) ones.

Here am and I very happy to be in Paris again, I head to Faubourg in the hope of getting a Croc Kelly. A bag I really want...and quite fits my customer habits.
As soon as I enter the store a very nice male SA makes eye contact with me which alreday is nice. I make my request to him. He says he will take me to the right dept, and ask me to "queue here please , only three people and it will be your turn". OOPS.... is this a luxury store or Water and Power office ?
Fortunately my turn comes. I repeat my request to the impassible young lady that is in charge of getting requests, and she say " Oh, no less ? A croc Kelly ? Please come with me. "....and she takes me to a little leather chair and asks me to wait here ..."someone will come" I think she is rude but worse is coming... And I wait.
After almost 15 minutes, come a very young girl, with NO EXPRESSION on her face, and she points her chin at me like " may I help you" but with no sound..I don't say a word. I am waiting for at least a plain Hello, but nothing comes . She points her chin at me again with no sound. My own daughter would behave that way, she would get corrected immediately.
Finally I say : "Good afternoon, I am here to purchase a Crocodile Kelly"
Still with no expression on her face she gives a little piece of paper and her pen and asks me to write down my name . Not even a please ... I am totally speechless...and almost breathless.
I simply can't believe Hermes is taking care of their clients in such a way.
I think to myself that I can't buy anything from this store even if she gets back with my dream Croc Kelly...
But of course she comes back after 10 minutes with her no expressive face and no bag . Sorry we haven't received any today. I feel kind of relieved. I would have hated spending even a dime in that store.
But the sneaky no expression faced girl can't help and add, actually we have no Kelly, no Birkin today. And of course I can't help but answer : Not interested in any Birkin, only a Crocodile Kelly.

I leave with a smile but not a word,
and head to the RTW dpt, which is upstairs, a good 200 square meters of desert display, where two desperate SAs try to satisfy any of my needs, write down references and colors for me, bring coffee and sparkling water with a smile, and needless to say know how to say Hello, Good afternoon, May I help you, and Thank you for visiting. Curiously, They do not use their chin to make contact with you.

 

[chicinthecity777]

You make some good points here. I think you're right that the skunk issue is unprecedented and the individual stores probably didn't get good guidance (at least not at the beginning) re. how to deal with the issue.

But as a larger issue of general quality, Hermes does not have to compete with the Hermes of old. Yes, they will lose some older, longtime customers but those customers are far outnumbered by the new wealthy clientele coming in. H doesn't have to compete with its older self, it only has to compete with other current luxury brands, and most of them seem to be having problems as well.

This is so true! and the whole situation is so sad! I remember the old days when I had a quality issue and I had to deal with Paris head office directly. The people who resolved my issue couldn't be more gracious! I don't believe for a second H knew the issue and closed their eyes on it. I think it's their suppliers messed it up and due to the nature of the production and distribution model, it's hard to clearly identify the effected items.

As for H expanding, we are know about it. Just like everybody else (Chanel, LV, Dior everyone!). Quality of their items are definitely doing down hill. Now I treasure my older bags even more for sure. But I am not at the stage where I will stop buying from them. Their items are still far more superior to other houses out there. Just look at the CSGMs, H still has the best design and quality there is no question about it. (Sorry Loro Piana fans.)

 

[perlerare]

You make some good points here. I think you're right that the skunk issue is unprecedented and the individual stores probably didn't get good guidance (at least not at the beginning) re. how to deal with the issue.

But as a larger issue of general quality, Hermes does not have to compete with the Hermes of old. Yes, they will lose some older, longtime customers but those customers are far outnumbered by the new wealthy clientele coming in. H doesn't have to compete with its older self, it only has to compete with other current luxury brands, and most of them seem to be having problems as well.

You said it all. Thank you for making it sharp and short.

 

[birkel]

it doe snot cahnge my opinión because it happens to all to the best and they are responding to it in a positive guarantee way i mean it really is a personal matter but they are honoring the standards by replacing bags.


NOTE i have purchased bags because i want them in terms of WANT,especially CHANEL.
but with birkins because i need them i realized i NEEDED larger bags so i sold my 25cm and 30cms because to me a birkin 35-40 is the perfect life companion kellys i have also sold and recently bought a 40cm Kelly because in my life i NEED ! large very good looking bags and i need to rotate them because of image and the space and quality and look provided by Hermes is really something that covers my need this is why i think i never wear a birkin as a trophy its just my bag a friend recently took a picture of my Reading área at home since she wanted the same cofee table when she saw it she said... birkel this is so much you very simple leather sofá very sleek marble table and floppy birkin on the right side corner ... i again saw how much that bag is to me simply a bag that i very much need because it holds my life. i have great friends that have the money time and lives for a birkin and many preffer chanel or more recently the Givenchy pandora i NEED my birkins , im just placing my imput on that particular note on your original post since i feel it is important to clarify that as comercial as the line is to me its not a purse or a bag its a birkin. hope it helps LOVE Birkel.

 

[ferrip]

You make some good points here. I think you're right that the skunk issue is unprecedented and the individual stores probably didn't get good guidance (at least not at the beginning) re. how to deal with the issue.

But as a larger issue of general quality, Hermes does not have to compete with the Hermes of old. Yes, they will lose some older, longtime customers but those customers are far outnumbered by the new wealthy clientele coming in. H doesn't have to compete with its older self, it only has to compete with other current luxury brands, and most of them seem to be having problems as well.

So insightful! This is a great analysis - and in some weird way makes me feel better! haha

 

[MarvelGirl]

But as a larger issue of general quality, Hermes does not have to compete with the Hermes of old. Yes, they will lose some older, longtime customers but those customers are far outnumbered by the new wealthy clientele coming in. H doesn't have to compete with its older self, it only has to compete with other current luxury brands, and most of them seem to be having problems as well.

Just look at the CSGMs, H still has the best design and quality there is no question about it. (Sorry Loro Piana fans.)

You said it all. Thank you for making it sharp and short.

This. Agree with you all 100%

 

[Leah]

But as a larger issue of general quality, Hermes does not have to compete with the Hermes of old. Yes, they will lose some older, longtime customers but those customers are far outnumbered by the new wealthy clientele coming in. H doesn't have to compete with its older self, it only has to compete with other current luxury brands, and most of them seem to be having problems as well.

SOOO Well said!

And this newer clientele perhaps has different needs and is attracted to Hermes for VERY different reasons compared to the "older" customer base.

And for better or worse, I fear Hermes is responding to meet the needs of this newer demographics who, in my personal opinion, aren't so big on quality but are more keen to be seen as "wearing Hermes, THE expensive luxury brand."

I mean even on this forum, having been here since 2006, I've seen the dynamics change. Whereas before there was much ooh-ing and aah-ing over the "intangibles"....the beauty of even the most minute things like the stitching, the soft texture of the various leathers, the symmetry of scales or follicles, there were more of those discussion before.

Now there's more threads about "what is the hottest and newest H colour that I should look for??" "Should I buy this? Is this hard to get? Will this have a high resale value?"

In general, I'm sensing less interest today on the H heritage & history, the old world feel and "stealth wealth-ness" of Hermes. It's now more about THE BRAND.