MFF markings/grading on 'FP deletes'?

[cypher12]

Hello, I'm new to the forum but not to Coach. I still consider myself a newbie though so I'm hoping someone on here can help clear up some things.

I've recently purchased a couple 'flagship deletes' at my local outlet, namely the Swagger 27 in denim colorblock (F37772) and Market tote in denim (F58849). After researching more about the Swagger, I realized both bags have MFF markings on the creed (starting with F after dash) and has a white dot on the black tag. I know coach re-tags their FP deletes now, but I find it odd that the market tote has the same style number and is at the flagship section, but marking and grading is MFF. Am I missing something?

Any help or guidance is much appreciated! I figured this not really an 'ID my bag' or 'authentication' question so I started new thread.

 

[crazyforcoach09]

Hello, I'm new to the forum but not to Coach. I still consider myself a newbie though so I'm hoping someone on here can help clear up some things.

I've recently purchased a couple 'flagship deletes' at my local outlet, namely the Swagger 27 in denim colorblock (F37772) and Market tote in denim (F58849). After researching more about the Swagger, I realized both bags have MFF markings on the creed (starting with F after dash) and has a white dot on the black tag. I know coach re-tags their FP deletes now, but I find it odd that the market tote has the same style number and is at the flagship section, but marking and grading is MFF. Am I missing something?

Any help or guidance is much appreciated! I figured this not really an 'ID my bag' or 'authentication' question so I started new thread.

Is there ab af on the bag creed serial number? If not then its an Retail item. Some outlets changes the price tag. Most dont. To much work

 

[cypher12]

Is there ab af on the bag creed serial number? If not then its an Retail item. Some outlets changes the price tag. Most dont. To much work

There's an "F" on the creed before the serial numbers and a white dot on the "made in" fabric tag. I don't have the bags with me right now so I can't take pics. Given the "F" and dot, I'm guessing these are MFF but please do correct me if I'm wrong. I'm wondering if anyone has seen MFF bags with the exact same style number as FP bags. I've always thought style numbers will be different?

I've read about the "split personality dinky" issue so this is making me a bit unhappy with coach. I feel like I was deceived by the impression that these were boutique items and hence "bigger" markups (I love deals [emoji28]). The market tote I purchased is exactly the same, look-wise, as the FP market tote. My understanding was there was the outlet version of it, city tote(?)

 

[Dinky22]

There's an "F" on the creed before the serial numbers and a white dot on the "made in" fabric tag. I don't have the bags with me right now so I can't take pics. Given the "F" and dot, I'm guessing these are MFF but please do correct me if I'm wrong. I'm wondering if anyone has seen MFF bags with the exact same style number as FP bags. I've always thought style numbers will be different?

I've read about the "split personality dinky" issue so this is making me a bit unhappy with coach. I feel like I was deceived by the impression that these were boutique items and hence "bigger" markups (I love deals [emoji28]). The market tote I purchased is exactly the same, look-wise, as the FP market tote. My understanding was there was the outlet version of it, city tote(?)

What is the "split personality dinky" issue? I too have purchased dinkies and market totes at the outlet, and was under the impression they were deletes. If they aren't deletes and we are getting a "lesser" quality item made specially for outlets, I feel a little deceived by Coach.

 

[momtok]

Yeah, that dot on the "made in" tag is telltale MFF. That's true on both MFF bags and slgs. Been there for years, and is actually the fastest way I use to discern deletes from MFF.
And yes, an F in the creed number (specifically *after* the dash), is also telltale MFF.

As far as style number being repeated, I'm not surprised. There have been a number of bags that were originally boutique styles, that were then "moved" to being manufactured for the outlets (MFF). Boroughs, Isabels (or was that Isabellas?). Kristins (my I'm dating myself). Didn't Kelsey do that too? I have no personal experience with the specific styles that made that leap --- from manufactured for boutique, to manufactured for outlet --- but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they kept the style number the same.

(disclaimer, I am not criticizing MFF. Two of my favorite Coach bags are my MFF Cora's. I also have an old-fashioned style gathered Sophia that was MFF, and I swear it's the same leather. That was when it looked like they were using up the 'old-style gathered' leather to make MFF bags, while the boutique Madison line was switching to a new style of 'gathered'. Anyway, my point is that I am not at all slagging on MFF. )

 

[katev]

I have seen some of those "split personality" bags at my local outlets. I remember a few months ago, one of the local outlets had a lot of "flagship bags" including genuine 1941 bags. There were a lot of Dinky bags and some of them were retail bags (no F in front of the style number on the creed patch and no dots on the small tags) and each of those bags came with a dust bag inside.

But there were other Dinkys that had the same style number as the retail bags, but these had an F in front of the style number on the creed patch - and they did not come with a dust bag. I checked the small tags inside several of those Dinkys, and none of them had a dot on the tag. These MFF Dinkys were displayed with the FP delete Dinkys as Flagship bags, and they were marked the same price.

I asked a manager about the similarities (and differences) between the bags and she said that "Coach makes a lot of similar bags and they are trying to combine the names and numbers of common styles, to make things less confusing" but these split personality bags just confused me even more!

Another explanation that I've heard is that "sometimes they make too many of some styles and so they just mark them as MFF during manufacture and send them directly to the outlets."

But I don't know if any of these explanations are the actual truth.

 

[cypher12]

What is the "split personality dinky" issue? I too have purchased dinkies and market totes at the outlet, and was under the impression they were deletes. If they aren't deletes and we are getting a "lesser" quality item made specially for outlets, I feel a little deceived by Coach.

The "split personality" is a just a term I came across in another thread so I take no credit for it. I think the issue was referring to a dinky that has F on the creed but no dot on the "made in" tag. If you want to read more about it, I believe it's somewhere on this thread: https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/coachs-changing-terminology-for-fp-delete-bags.963035/page-6

My dinky purchases have always been at boutique/online so I don't know much about the MFF dinkies, or if there are even MFF dinkies. And same here! I honestly couldn't tell the difference unless looking at the creed/fabric tag, which I didn't before purchasing...I guess I got too excited lol. What irks me is it's a MFF bag, which I'd assume will have lower MSRP than boutique price, but was placed with FP deletes and with FP delete 50% discount. It makes me feel like they were purposely trying to throw people off, making them think it's FP deletes.

 

[cypher12]

Oops I did not refresh before posting! It looks like @katev has already answered the question about 'split personality' bags.

Coach makes a lot of similar bags and they are trying to combine the names and numbers of common styles, to make things less confusing" but these split personality bags just confused me even more!

Yes! It makes sense they're trying to sell overstock of those MFF boutique-style bags at outlets, but now it makes it more complicated to get FP deletes lol. I mean why would someone get a MFF "split personality" bag over the other bag that is clearly FP delete if they're both marked at same price

I'm not saying the MFF bag, namely my market tote or swagger, are inferior quality. They can definitely still pass for boutique bags, the detailing, the 'softness' of the leather, etc. But these different grading/marking makes it harder to figure out the 'original' prices and how much of a discount they are. Another thing I've noticed with my local outlet is they seem to be receiving 'flagship' stocks all from JAX, so I'm guessing the semi-annual/annual sale leftovers won't go there anymore. I live in Canada so I'm not sure when they started this practice.

 

[crazyforcoach09]

There's an "F" on the creed before the serial numbers and a white dot on the "made in" fabric tag. I don't have the bags with me right now so I can't take pics. Given the "F" and dot, I'm guessing these are MFF but please do correct me if I'm wrong. I'm wondering if anyone has seen MFF bags with the exact same style number as FP bags. I've always thought style numbers will be different?

I've read about the "split personality dinky" issue so this is making me a bit unhappy with coach. I feel like I was deceived by the impression that these were boutique items and hence "bigger" markups (I love deals [emoji28]). The market tote I purchased is exactly the same, look-wise, as the FP market tote. My understanding was there was the outlet version of it, city tote(?)

Was the number. F123-12345 or 1234-F1235

 

[momtok]

>These MFF Dinkys were displayed with the FP delete Dinkys as Flagship bags, and they were marked the same price.

Well if that's what "split personality" means, then that's not new. Not new AT ALL. That trick is years and years old. Nine, at least, by my count.

October 2009 was when I first discovered that was happening. I can even give you the date, because I posted about it here.
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/my-outlet-finds-today.513484/page-2#post-12648527 (then again six months later, in a link I pasted below).

I remember it vividly, because it was truly a surprise for me. Remember the Zoe's from way back when? Limerick outlet had a table with about six of the graphite/silver patent medium Zoes. Five of them ended in serial number: -F12735, while ONE ended in the serial number -12735.

Literally, there were five MFF, and one boutique delete, mixed in together on the same table. And you'll note, those MFF had the F after the dash, denoting MFF, (nothing to do with F's at the front of the creed which mean month made). I assure you, I knew what the F *after* the dash meant at the time, and I knew what the F at the beginning of the creed means (it denotes month made). And I know exactly what I was looking at. ------- I was looking at five MFF and one FP delete, all with identical appearing leather (patent leather, same color), exact same style, looked identical, exact same style number, exact same appearing hardware. The only difference was that the FP delete ended with -12735, while the other five MFF ended in -F12735. Had I had a cellphone that took pics at the time, heck, I'd have taken pics. And I can even tell you where the table was located at Limerick outlet, because it was that much of a shock to me. Burned into my memory.

I even explained it in more detail about six months later, here, at the bottom of this post:
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/made-for-factory-julianne.575433/page-5#post-14886907

I guess my point is that this trick in particular, has been around since at least late 2009. I even documented it, so I know I'm quoting accurate dates.

So, yes, I can personally testify that they did a round of these "split personalities" nine years ago already. I know. I stood there at the table with my mouth hanging open.

Disclaimer:
And again, I will empahsize, it was NOT mistaken identity. I know (and knew then already, as my older posts will attest) exactly the difference between an F at the beginning of the creed (month made), and an F after the dash (MFF).

One more disclaimer:
And I am also NOT talking about the later version of MFF Zoe's that Coach made for the outlets. Those had longer straps included, different colors, different style number, etc. What *I* saw was identical in appearance to the FP deletes -- identical leather, identical hardware, to the point that I had to dig through all of the creeds to find the one creed that did NOT have the F after the dash.
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads...ene-and-a-few-questions.623733/#post-16545803

 

[momtok]

. .

Sorry, I should have quoted you when I replied. Post is just above.

 

[katev]

>These MFF Dinkys were displayed with the FP delete Dinkys as Flagship bags, and they were marked the same price.

Well if that's what "split personality" means, then that's not new. Not new AT ALL. That trick is years and years old. Nine, at least, by my count.

October 2009 was when I first discovered that was happening. I can even give you the date, because I posted about it here.
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/my-outlet-finds-today.513484/page-2#post-12648527 (then again six months later, in a link I pasted below).

I remember it vividly, because it was truly a surprise for me. Remember the Zoe's from way back when? Limerick outlet had a table with about six of the graphite/silver patent medium Zoes. Five of them ended in serial number: -F12735, while ONE ended in the serial number -12735.

Literally, there were five MFF, and one boutique delete, mixed in together on the same table. And you'll note, those MFF had the F after the dash, denoting MFF, (nothing to do with F's at the front of the creed which mean month made). I assure you, I knew what the F *after* the dash meant at the time, and I knew what the F at the beginning of the creed means (it denotes month made). And I know exactly what I was looking at. ------- I was looking at five MFF and one FP delete, all with identical appearing leather (patent leather, same color), exact same style, looked identical, exact same style number, exact same appearing hardware. The only difference was that the FP delete ended with -12735, while the other five MFF ended in -F12735. Had I had a cellphone that took pics at the time, heck, I'd have taken pics. And I can even tell you where the table was located at Limerick outlet, because it was that much of a shock to me. Burned into my memory.

I even explained it in more detail about six months later, here, at the bottom of this post:
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/made-for-factory-julianne.575433/page-5#post-14886907

I guess my point is that this trick in particular, has been around since at least late 2009. I even documented it, so I know I'm quoting accurate dates.

So, yes, I can personally testify that they did a round of these "split personalities" nine years ago already. I know. I stood there at the table with my mouth hanging open.

Disclaimer:
And again, I will empahsize, it was NOT mistaken identity. I know (and knew then already, as my older posts will attest) exactly the difference between an F at the beginning of the creed (month made), and an F after the dash (MFF).

One more disclaimer:
And I am also NOT talking about the later version of MFF Zoe's that Coach made for the outlets. Those had longer straps included, different colors, different style number, etc. What *I* saw was identical in appearance to the FP deletes -- identical leather, identical hardware, to the point that I had to dig through all of the creeds to find the one creed that did NOT have the F after the dash.
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads...ene-and-a-few-questions.623733/#post-16545803

I've seen it happen before a few times also, the MFF Nomads come to mind, but at least most of them were different colors than the retail bags.

What surprised about the MFF Dinky's is that they are 1941 bags. Coach originally promoted 1941 as "exclusive, high-quality, and with low production numbers" and SA's told customers that although they may occasionally be offered at a discount at the boutiques stores or on coach.com, they were unlikely to sold in the outlets. That's what 1941 was supposed to signify, that Coach was reclaiming their status as a maker of high-quality, expensive, exclusive designer bags.

But now they are making MFF versions of the Dinkys and loading up the outlets with them, and mixing them in with the real FP bags; and what's so exclusive about that?

At my area outlets the FP deletes usually come with a dustbag inside. Occasionally I've found a delete in clearance without a dustbag - probably a return. My experience is that the lack of a dustbag in bags displayed as "Flagship" products, is a good signal that this is probably not a genuine boutique bag; but it is still a good idea to check the markings and look for the F immediately after the hyphen on the creed patch, and/or a dot on the "Made in" tag to decide whether or not it is a MFF version.

There's nothing wrong with MFF bags but I like to know what I am buying!

 

[Pagan]

If the creed has F it’s MFF and I do not consider it to be a boutique bag. I certainly don’t consider it to be 1941.

If Coach’s response is that the bags are identical then they are really saying that the boutique bags are no different and not worth paying a premium for. I’ve bought MFF jackets before but never MFF bags because I don’t find them to be of the same quality as Coach 1941. An actual from boutique bag is different, but if they’re now making 1941 MFF bags I will never buy another.

There are plenty of other designers who do do not play these games, both contemporary and premium.

 

[momtok]

Yeah, I didn't realize they were doing it again (ie. the Dinky's). I had really hoped that when the company revamped themselves, took on Vevers (who's fascination with bedazzling I'm not a fan of, but that's another topic), and came up with the 1941 idea, they'd actually stick to their new guns.

"Never go to outlets, or be made for outlets" has been said so, so, SO often in the past (Legacy stuff, Boroughs, etc), but then violated, that it's almost a given *not* to take them at their word.

*EXCEPT* ... when they revamped themselves, I thought, "Ok, this is their chance to say it, and actually mean it. Their chance for actual follow-through. Now or never." Kind of a 'watershed' moment. .....

I admit it's disheartening to discover they backed out on their claims yet again --and to such a drastic extent. It's disheartening not just for the "next generation" of Coachies that were taken in again, but because it speaks directly to integrity, especially after such a public and dramatic reboot. The best definition I've ever heard of integrity, is something they say at the school where daughter takes martial arts. They teach it to the kids as: "Integrity is doing what you say you're going to do."

Wow.... yeah, that's pretty much a nail in the coffin for their 'integrity', at least in terms of company policy.

 

[katev]

Well, this tops them all! @lizmil reports that the outlets are expecting MFF Rogues!
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads...scussion-thread.913051/page-496#post-32855527