Kelly in Epsom vs Kelly in box: pros and cons

[ladysarah]

This is the photo of a box bag which should serve as a cautionary tale. This is what happens to neglected box bags. More here: https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/share-a-train-wreck.434757/
So clearly, is not a given that box will age well. It depends what you do to it...

 

[QuelleFromage]

Thank you ladies all for your insightful comments. Papertiger, I did not know that about older box being more resilient...

The past week I ve been using my new Epsom Kelly 28 daily and I can vouch for its resistance to rainy London. The vintage green Kelly stays safely wrapped up in its dust bag at home... so I guess it depends if you want a Kelly to use often or a Kelly to collect.

Summing up and please feel free to add or delete or comment from your own experience.

Epsom
pros

Most weatherproof leather (water simply slides off and can be wiped)
Holds its shape really well in sellier styles
Doesn't mark or scratch easily
Resistant to wear & tear - virtually bullet proof
For anyone who likes colours, Epsom leather takes colour exceptionally well
Mat discreet finish- contemporary look.

Cons
It's not a particularly tactile leather.
Wear in the corners may not be refurbished to look invisible (but I can tell you, it takes decades for corner wear to actualise.)

Box
Pros
Green & ecological choice: Vintage options are plentiful
Surrounded with mystery with an aura of vintage romance
With regular care the leather refurbishes beautifully
It can look better with age, that cannot be said of many things!
Tactile leather, though beware of fingermarks. Twillies are advisable.

Cons
Marks & scratches very easily. You breath too close and it gets marked. (Nerves of steel are required to take this)
Rain drops can leave permanent blemishes, like small pox. Quite horrible!
Without care the leather has a tendency to dry. Look at some horrid older bags
Shiny finish which may or may not be to everyone taste.
Old box can be stretched and misshapen, does not hold its shape well

It appears to me that you prefer Epsom and are going to continue to press the disadvantages of Box. It's pointless to try to discuss it as these are just matters of taste.
I never really understand why anyone starts a thread with their mind already made up.

 

[ouija board]

View attachment 4036130 This is the photo of a box bag which should serve as a cautionary tale. This is what happens to neglected box bags. More here: https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/share-a-train-wreck.434757/
So clearly, is not a given that box will age well. It depends what you do to it...

The exact same can be said about any leather, including Epsom. An Epsom bag of the same age, if you can find it, will look as much of a train wreck as that Kelly given the same abuse. The difference is that a trip to Hermes or even a wipe of conditioner will result in obvious improvement of the Box bag. Not so for the Epsom bag.

I like and own both Box AND grained leathers (no Epsom only because I’ve never had the chance to buy one). They serve different purposes in my closet.

 

[minuit]

View attachment 4036130 This is the photo of a box bag which should serve as a cautionary tale. This is what happens to neglected box bags. More here: https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/share-a-train-wreck.434757/
So clearly, is not a given that box will age well. It depends what you do to it...

Seems like that Kelly has been through a lot! I do think that it seems like an extreme case, would be curious as to which of the Hermes stamped leathers is oldest (Courchevel?) and yes, that bag in a stamped leather would probably look equally destroyed if put through the same paces.

I think the main differences between box and Epsom on a day to day wear and tear basis are 1) water resistance 2) light scratches that wouldn’t show up on Epsom at all. However, if I were seeking a Sellier Kelly with those properties, I would just go for a natural grained leather like Chèvre or Togo rather than a stamped leather like Epsom because I do think the stamped grain is too artificial for my taste, and Chèvre and Togo spa better. I prefer smooth leather, so I don’t own any bags in those leathers, but I can appreciate their natural beauty and texture (I adore the veining actually), and would imagine they age better than Epsom because the texture isn’t just stamped on.

 

[ladysarah]

It appears to me that you prefer Epsom and are going to continue to press the disadvantages of Box. It's pointless to try to discuss it as these are just matters of taste.
I never really understand why anyone starts a thread with their mind already made up.

On the contrary. I adore box and I own a black box Kelly, a brown one as well as the green one in the first photo. I don't mind imperfections and I am vintage lover. I live in a house from the 1820's so I know all about charm & imperfections.

However I am keen to broaden my horizons and to hear other members experience as well as personal preference. It would appear that poor Epsom is the most maligned leather and I would very much like to hear from ladies who actually own it and use it what they think. You most certainly do not have to read my posts if you are not interested...

 

[ladysarah]

Seems like that Kelly has been through a lot! I do think that it seems like an extreme case, would be curious as to which of the Hermes stamped leathers is oldest (Courchevel?) and yes, that bag in a stamped leather would probably look equally destroyed if put through the same paces.

I think the main differences between box and Epsom on a day to day wear and tear basis are 1) water resistance 2) light scratches that wouldn’t show up on Epsom at all. However, if I were seeking a Sellier Kelly with those properties, I would just go for a natural grained leather like Chèvre or Togo rather than a stamped leather like Epsom because I do think the stamped grain is too artificial for my taste, and Chèvre and Togo spa better. I prefer smooth leather, so I don’t own any bags in those leathers, but I can appreciate their natural beauty and texture (I adore the veining actually), and would imagine they age better than Epsom because the texture isn’t just stamped on.

If you check out the train wreck thread posted above, there are some older courchevel bags on display. Not for the faint hearted...

 

[ladysarah]

If a vintage bag hasn't been used, then it will of course look like new. If a box leather bag has been used, it's a different look. Used look. The scratches on box leather cannot be refurbished to disappear. No scratches can be undone and box leather is very prone to scratches. That's just a fact.

Very true and of course some of those beautifully maintained older box bags, are from an era when things were kept 'for best'. I have older plumes in box and Epsom, both very well used but I think condition is about the same. By the way is that your new pink Kelly ? It is delectable! Perfect example of how epsom takes lovely colour...

 

[calexandre]

It does sometimes. It does not need to look battered. This baby is 38.

QF this is dreamy! And one of my dream bags, actually. I definitely need some Rouge H box in my life.

I have a 1981 Black Box Kelly (so close to yours in date!) that always shocks SAs with her age. Sure, if you hold her up about a foot from your face and focus, you see scratches and scuffs (including one from an unfortunate skid across concrete face-down, after her shoulder strap unclipped). But from normal viewing distance she shines like a mirror and looks better than new. Having ended up with several early-80s box bags, I do feel there is something special about that era in box. Not as plush as 90s box by a long shot, but they are as close to ageless as box bags can get.

 

[QuelleFromage]

QF this is dreamy! And one of my dream bags, actually. I definitely need some Rouge H box in my life.

I have a 1981 Black Box Kelly (so close to yours in date!) that always shocks SAs with her age. Sure, if you hold her up about a foot from your face and focus, you see scratches and scuffs (including one from an unfortunate skid across concrete face-down, after her shoulder strap unclipped). But from normal viewing distance she shines like a mirror and looks better than new. Having ended up with several early-80s box bags, I do feel there is something special about that era in box. Not as plush as 90s box by a long shot, but they are as close to ageless as box bags can get.

Thank you
The Box Calf Through the Ages/Box Calf Nerds thread is a good place for both Box eye candy and to see differing eras/ages of box calf.
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/box-calf-veau-box-through-the-years-boxcalfnerds.874863/
I am grateful to Mr. Box for this leather (yes there was a Mr. Box....).

 

[ladysarah]

QF this is dreamy! And one of my dream bags, actually. I definitely need some Rouge H box in my life.

I have a 1981 Black Box Kelly (so close to yours in date!) that always shocks SAs with her age. Sure, if you hold her up about a foot from your face and focus, you see scratches and scuffs (including one from an unfortunate skid across concrete face-down, after her shoulder strap unclipped). But from normal viewing distance she shines like a mirror and looks better than new. Having ended up with several early-80s box bags, I do feel there is something special about that era in box. Not as plush as 90s box by a long shot, but they are as close to ageless as box bags can get.

Sounds just delectable! Do post a photo if you can. Most 'imperfections' in bags are only spotted by aficionados at TPF and are invisible to everyone else in the physical world. How often do you use your box Kelly though?

 

[calexandre]

Hi ladysarah, here she is from two angles in natural light. There are some reflections at the edges that look like fading, but those really are just tricks of the light.

Even after moving to the UK, this is still by far my lowest cost-per-use bag. I couldn’t possibly even estimate the number of times I’ve carried her since I bought her about 8-9 years ago. She’s gone all over the world and has been used with utter abandon: she rides rammed public transit, gets stuffed in overhead bins, bumps into people or things off and on, sits on the floor of dive bars.... I trust this bag completely! I am far, far, far more cautious with my courcheval and chèvre bags.

Sounds just delectable! Do post a photo if you can. Most 'imperfections' in bags are only spotted by aficionados at TPF and are invisible to everyone else in the physical world. How often do you use your box Kelly though?

 

[Hat Trick]

How beautiful.

 

[HermesFanKelly]

I have only one K (can't seem to ever get comfortable with it tbh...awkward to get stuff into and out...just can't seem to make it work ) But for my B's...just love them...I have epsom, swift, and togo... I love that for pop or intense colors...epsom really does color a great justice... so epsom imo is fantastic to show off some of those amazing colors that H does. For epsom as a leather (wear and tear wise)...I find it amazing, and I do not "baby" a bag..so i can vouch that epsom can take a bit of abuse lol. As for box...I own a couple accessories (not easy to find, but i've found a couple, and I own K boots)...I find the scratches and nicks irritating. If that happened to a bag it would irritate me as I am not a lover of that worn look. I will note that I am an equestrian and so I do appreciate fine leathers and I know very well how to take care of them to say the least lol...but imo box (although beautiful when it starts out...smell and all), doesn't age in a way that I feel its a great leather for a handbag. Now one could say..."you don't own a box bag, so how can you say that" lol....quite true, however I have many friends, relatives and such who do...and if they really use their bags...they sure look exactly like I would expect, based on my experience with my own leathers and such. I feel that for a handbag, box has too many downsides to make me comfortable to spend over 10k on it. Again, just my opinion.

 

[ladysarah]

I have only one K (can't seem to ever get comfortable with it tbh...awkward to get stuff into and out...just can't seem to make it work ) But for my B's...just love them...I have epsom, swift, and togo... I love that for pop or intense colors...epsom really does color a great justice... so epsom imo is fantastic to show off some of those amazing colors that H does. For epsom as a leather (wear and tear wise)...I find it amazing, and I do not "baby" a bag..so i can vouch that epsom can take a bit of abuse lol. As for box...I own a couple accessories (not easy to find, but i've found a couple, and I own K boots)...I find the scratches and nicks irritating. If that happened to a bag it would irritate me as I am not a lover of that worn look. I will note that I am an equestrian and so I do appreciate fine leathers and I know very well how to take care of them to say the least lol...but imo box (although beautiful when it starts out...smell and all), doesn't age in a way that I feel its a great leather for a handbag. Now one could say..."you don't own a box bag, so how can you say that" lol....quite true, however I have many friends, relatives and such who do...and if they really use their bags...they sure look exactly like I would expect, based on my experience with my own leathers and such. I feel that for a handbag, box has too many downsides to make me comfortable to spend over 10k on it. Again, just my opinion.

Thank you for this! almost no-one dares admit they like epsom more than box - its like box aficionados took over the galaxy! I rather like worn box look and dont mind a few marks, BUT as you say epsom is amazingly resilient. In sellier it has a very elegant clean look, which is very appealing. Anyone here has an epsom kelly that looks stunning? lets see some photos...

 

[catsinthebag]

Hi ladysarah, here she is from two angles in natural light. There are some reflections at the edges that look like fading, but those really are just tricks of the light.

Even after moving to the UK, this is still by far my lowest cost-per-use bag. I couldn’t possibly even estimate the number of times I’ve carried her since I bought her about 8-9 years ago. She’s gone all over the world and has been used with utter abandon: she rides rammed public transit, gets stuffed in overhead bins, bumps into people or things off and on, sits on the floor of dive bars.... I trust this bag completely! I am far, far, far more cautious with my courcheval and chèvre bags.

View attachment 4040364 View attachment 4040365

On the floor in dive bars? Really?! My hat is off to you — I wish I was that daring with my Box Kellys! Do you treat it with anything? It looks pristine!