Is this marketing email from Fashionphile cultural appropriation?

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You quoted me, but I don’t see a response? I equally dislike how woman are portrayed. That doesn’t detract from this conversation if that was directed at me. Although, I’m not sure I would call my response outrage or upset. It’s an opinion.
I quoted you by error. Sorry.
My comment was not directed at anyone. Just stating an opinion. The news every day contains something about a person or a group being upset over perceived verbal or written injustices, some outraged. I would to see the same attention paid to the depicting of women as nothing more than sex objects. That is all.
Now back to bags which we all enjoy and love!
 
No worries, no need to be sorry, I just wasn’t sure if you were talking to me directly.

I don’t think any marginalized group should take priority, however, there is lots of outrage over woman in media. Geena Davis actually started an institute dedicated to the topic so it can be scientifically qualified to allow for factual answers to a lot of the deflective types of comments that are seen in relation to this issue in formal debate. Here is the org’s website: https://seejane.org/
 
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Personally I dislike the term 'mixed-race' although I have yet to find anyone to share my opinion. Either we're one race or we're not. A lot of terms and ideas that should have been buried in 1945 seem to be in common usage.


In terms of the original question:

Most Fashionphile customers will perhaps see the composed message the way the brand means it. In a pop-culture collage or quick reference points.

The shared signifier of zebra (print) is I supposed to = Zebra/Africa. Zebra not common except in Zoos in North America. There are cultures in Africa that also see different individuals and groups as having a deep connection to that animal, and for example Hermes pays tribute/commercially expoits this in its scarf Ndop (which I own and is one of my favourite scarves) https://www.businessincameroon.com/...pired-from-the-cameroonian-traditional-attire businessincameroon.com).

The phrase "spirit animal' is of course a Fashionphile (fashion) reference to zebra-print. It supposed to make us think in terms of across decades/designers and how we can group together our own preferences from pre-loved as well as current clothing trends.

That few people have any real understanding of the idea of First Nation spirit animals is a sad reflection not only of our times but the past too. When we see full regalia or cheap copies of ceremonial head-dresses used as adult 'cos play' at festivals there is a worrying factor. I am very glad that you are exploring this in your lectures as hopefully it will make people think more about all of these issues.

I do however also agree very strongly with @Sheikha Latifa. The more we share the better. I personally don't mind when 'outsiders' play 'our' music and sing our songs. Someone went to such trouble to learn difficult languages and sing complicated songs/rhythms without digging deep into the culture and the history, but maybe if a brand emailed me, putting together 3 stereotypical images together and stuck an orientalist caption underneath so that I could spend money with them it may be a different story.
Personally, I totally cringed when I saw this email earlier today. Full disclosure, I m currently teaching a course on Native American dramatic literature so I m a bit immersed in this topic at present.

When people live together, they learn from each other thereby enriching each other's culture. I always thought it is good. I personally am proud when I see references to my culture - it means that people appreciate it.

I agree with this though there are people who would consider those things you mentioned cultural appropriation. IMO, it is a first world problem to spend so much time worrying about cultural appropriation.

I don’t think it is appropriate. It’s the use of another culture’s spiritual beliefs to advertise. And that seems disrespectful to me. This is something they hold sacred.

As someone who is currently studying anthropology, I think the notion of cultural appropriation is nonsense especially when culture is shared,adaptive and learned. Culture survives through exchanges and it isn't a linear sequence someone can claim ownership of. An example of this would be the idea of individual creation that, by random chance, happened other places too such as the production of stone tools. Besides, where do we draw the line when it comes to cultural appropriation?

I don’t know that “cultural appropriation” necessarily fits but it’s still inappropriate in my mind to be glib about a person’s religious beliefs.

Majority of my reply here could be totally irrelevant... I think this could be an example of microaggression - we probably would agree that a. This email has no ill intent; b. This email is seen as inappropriate by some people. You can find all the controversies around this microaggression concept.

I totally get the idea of ‘sick of people being too easily offended’, however I also believe that everyone has a different ‘thresholds’ (not sure what’s the best word for it) of getting offended based on their own experience, and everyone is entitled to express their feelings and the reason behind it. I may or may not be able to understand it or to relate to it, but I try to empathize. Everyone is busy with their own lives so if anyone doesn’t have time to listen to others, or cannot put themselves in others’ shoes, I think it is also quite understandable.

What makes me sad however is in some cases - nothing related to this thread though - the minimal empathy. There are people just don’t care if others are hurt. To disguise this indifference most of the time they just blame the ‘victims’. This actually occurred to me when I came across a thread in chanel forum. The divisive replies in that thread even drove me to search whether there are studies about relationship between wealth and empathy level...

Back to OP’s question - I didn’t think too much when I saw the image and the text; I thank all the contributors here for all the knowledge they share about this term.

I agree with all of you above!

So interesting to read people’s thoughts here. This connects to several of the big debates of our times which extend to concerns as various as blasphemy, ‘micro-aggressions’, trigger warnings, minority group issues such as gender self-identification and the impact of that and similar issues upon the rights and sensitivities of other groups, and many other matters.

My position would be that freedom of speech is one of the most important fundamental principles in a free society, so we need to tread extremely carefully when addressing matters related to cultural appropriation, and not hand a veto to individual groups, because handing such a veto to one group diminishes the rights of others to free speech.

The difficulty tends to arise when ‘appropriation’ relates to the culture of a people which has been or is at some point oppressed or dominated by another. That an arguable power relationship of this type justifies the dominated or ignored culture having a greater right to determine who is and who isn’t allowed to borrow ideas or images from their culture is ethically probably unsound. My belief is that on the whole, in principle, no such right should exist in a society where free speech and action (within the law) are fundamental. There are, rightly, laws against racial and cultural discrimination and to cover hate speech and incitement to hatred, but there should be no right not to be offended.

I’m uncomfortable philosophically with the concept of ‘micro-aggression’ I believe that aggression implies intent. If there is no intent to harm or belittle, there is no aggression. There may be offence, which could arise from ignorance, poor taste, disrespect or disregard, but I don’t believe I have a right not to be offended, whether I fall into a group without cultural dominance or a group with it. Most of us experience offence to some group of which we are a part. There’s a chilling effect on free speech in this concept of micro-aggression, and the danger is that discourse becomes infantilised and we become actually more rather than less divided, as we tiptoe around each other.

However, beyond the fundamentals, it’s a matter of good taste and mutual respect and empathy. I would attempt never knowingly to trivialise somebody’s religious or ethical beliefs; I would also expect respect for my belief in freedom of speech and expression, and hope for a mature recognition that not all adaptation of concepts picked up from different cultures is intentionally offensive, trivialising, oppressive or serious. I think there is a real risk of going round in ever-decreasing circles and forgetting about the bigger problems in the world that need solving.

Mostly where some people would see cultural appropriation I would see cultural appreciation or cultural influence, or just ideas that are in the air. Digging deep back into history there are few cultures which have been hermetically sealed from each other, and actually decoding our own accepted practices is far from simple and mostly reveals more interconnection than purity. I don’t think I would want to comment on the particular concept regarding ‘spirit animals’, other than to say that borrowing from or referring to another culture can create a metaphor without denigrating or diminishing the original culture. The concepts that enter our language over centuries are very rich, and hard to unravel, and don’t necessarily imply disrespect, on the whole. Sometimes where such tropes of language or image originally did imply disrespect, this disrespect is long since diminished and forgotten, and the tropes have undergone such transformation over time and usage that they now mean something quite different. I rather feel that the commercial aspect doesn’t make much difference.
 
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I appreciate your point of view but please don’t put words in my mouth and read my posts carefully before replying. I never said I was offended, I simply asked a question. I specifically addressed the fact that I was not part of that community, and that, consequently, do not claim to be offended.

You may disagree, but I do believe that I have the right to ask a question about cultural appropriation—even though I am white. I am a well-educated person with an interest in this topic and I am simply trying to engage our lovely tpf community on a difficult but important conversation. I am not “patronizing “ anyone and I am not telling anyone “how to feel.” :drinks:

This, in my opinion, is why some people may be tired of the discussion. Why is it okay to say to someone that they should not have a voice just because of the color of their skin? isn't this one of the things that these discussions are designed to change? If you want to promote change, then all voices need to be heard, whether you agree with them or not. If someone tells a person that what they think does not matter, they will eventually stop listening or participating in the discussion. I, too, was not offended by the question. However, telling an entire race that their opinion is of no consequence is not the way to win favor to your cause.

I would like to have seen this put in the general discussion forum rather than handbags and purses, though. This is not because I am culturally ignorant, as some would imply because I am white, but it is because this is not the reason that I visit the handbags and purses forum. So I will bow out of the discussion now so that I can go back to mindless reading about beautiful handbags :)
 
I have never said such a thing... not sure where you picked this up. :shocked:
I read it that @cbarrus was agreeing with your point that you shouldn’t be excluded from a discussion about cultural appropriation because you’re white, and was emphasising that she wasn’t offended by you asking the question that started your thread? That’s why I liked her post, I agreed you and I with our white skin should have a voice as much as anyone else. :smile:

And I think there may have been a little confusion over @2cello ’s post that you were replying to in the post @cbarrus quoted, because the words weren’t yours but from the Teen Vogue you quoted. I thought she just meant it was logically inconsistent but she thought that because she maybe mistook the quote from Teen Vogue for your own words.

I think actually everyone was possibly on the same page?
 
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I read it that @cbarrus was agreeing with your point that you shouldn’t be excluded from a discussion about cultural appropriation because you’re white, and was emphasising that she wasn’t offended by you asking the question that started your thread? That’s why I liked her post, I agreed you and I with our white skin should have a voice as much as anyone else. :smile:
I misunderstood then. Thanks for helping clarify.
 
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To me, it's similar to the dichotomy that exists with a lot of etiquette. When it comes to certain events/milestones, it's rude to ask someone for a gift, but it's also rude not to give one.

I am not personally offended by a lot of things, but I try my hardest not to give offense. I do not have any indigenous heritage, so it doesn't really matter if I'm offended or not, but I also would have never used "spirit animal" in this context and do find it problematic. (Especially since there are so many any other good turns of phrase out there, e.g. "animal instinct," "party animal").
 
I’m uncomfortable philosophically with the concept of ‘micro-aggression’ I believe that aggression implies intent. If there is no intent to harm or belittle, there is no aggression.
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Well you may be uncomfortable, but "microaggression" is a neologism that actually means, among other things, unintentional aggression. So the word serves a fitting purpose in fleshing out forms of aggression. We all know what passive aggressive behavior is, for example, and it too is a way of describing behavior whose deliberateness is a matter of debate.

The whole postmodernist lit-crit mission of analyzing power relationships via linguistics has taken over grad school programs in at least a couple of fields for the last, oh, 30-40 years or so. I'm still surprised to find it holding such powerful sway in academia, when far more nuanced understandings are out there about how subgroups in society interact. The appropriation discussion reflects this bias toward seeing mostly exploiters and the exploited. It was cutting-edge once, maybe, but it strikes me now as ahistorical, simplistic, and tired, intellectually. Better work is out there today that examines how pluralistic societies feature hybridity, exchange, and bidrectional or multidirectional influences.
 
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The whole postmodernist lit-crit mission of analyzing power relationships via linguistics has taken over grad school programs in at least a couple of fields for the last, oh, thirty years or so. I'm still surprised to find it holding such powerful sway in academia, when far more nuanced understandings are out there about how subgroups in society interact. The appropriation discussion reflects this bias toward seeing only exploiters and the exploited. It was cutting-edge once, maybe, but it strikes me now as ahistorical, simplistic, and tired, intellectually. Better work is out there today that examines how pluralistic societies feature hybridity, exchange, and bidrectional or multidirectional influences.
Sorry @jellyv, but I find your argument quite insulting to my field of research and terribly misinformed.
 
Well you may be uncomfortable, but "microaggression" is a neologism that actually means, among other things, unintentional aggression. So the word serves a fitting purpose in fleshing out forms of aggression. We all know what passive aggressive behavior is, for example, and I bet you do recognize that as a legitimate idea, and it too is a way of describing behavior whose deliberateness is a matter of debate.

The whole postmodernist mission of analyzing power relationships via linguistics has taken over grad school programs in at least a couple of fields for the last, oh, thirty years or so. I'm still surprised to find it holding such powerful sway in academia, when far more nuanced understandings are out there about how subgroups in society interact. The appropriation discussion reflects this bias toward seeing only exploiters and the exploited. It was cutting-edge once, maybe, but it strikes me now as ahistorical, simplistic, and old-fashioned intellectually. Better work is out there today that examines how pluralistic societies feature hybridity, exchange, and bidrectional or multidirectional influences.

Yes, my point is really that I feel consideration of power relationships, exploiter/exploited, should not hold such sway over fundamental pillars of free society such as free speech, yet it still seems to. It seems often to be the first port of call in dictating who is and isn’t allowed an opinion or voice, while everyone should have a voice. Probably because it’s taken a while to filter down and newer thought hasn’t fully entered general culture? Or maybe just where I live? As you say, there are far more nuanced understandings available. (Whether free speech is indeed an appropriate fundamental right would be a different discussion - believe it is, within the commonly accepted limits that are enshrined in law in the UK, Europe, I am less familiar with US rights and laws - but for these purposes I am accepting it as fundamental.)

When I say I’m not comfortable with the concept of micro-aggression, I mean that I believe the neologism is ill-founded. I think if it means unintentional aggression, it is a contradiction in terms, and is not a very helpful concept because it can distort mutual understanding. I don’t believe it to be analogous to ‘passive aggression’ which I suppose I understand as meaning a particular kind of behavioural expression of intentional aggression. Intentionality in that concept may be up for debate too, despite how we tend to use it. I certainly have no up-to-date expertise here, though, I’m not a psychologist, and it’s been a good while since I dug into contemporary linguistics and philosophy; terminology and understanding will undoubtedly have evolved. I just believe that aggression in by definition implies intent, and the common use of the word ‘micro-aggression’ makes me wince somewhat, because it is so often used, and results in misunderstanding of motivation.

It doesn’t necessarily matter too much for this discussion though to define the term, I only mean to say that I believe that intention is often imputed in the discussion of cultural appropriation when it is not there. I believe in the real world the empathy needs to go in both directions, and mutual respect is important, and consideration for others’ dearly held beliefs matters very much, but there is also no right not to be offended, because of more fundamental principles.
 
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