I NEED a return/refund option! How about you? Seller and buyer opinions all welcome!

[SweetDaisy05]

As a buyer returns are always awesome. On the seller end, returns can cost me money, time, and maybe a headache (difficult people). There are many different types of buyers on the pre-owned market. I prefer a decisive buyer that has realistic expectations on a pre-owned bag. I am all for waiting for the right buyer to buy my bag without using best offer and generous returns. In my experience, relying just on my listing with detailed pictures and descriptions brought the right buyers. The one time I tried to go for a quick sale I got a flake. Most buyers that want a return do not want to pay shipping. They will just claim SNAD. Shipping on expensive bags is costly, especially when the seller paid both ways. I also don't want to pay the shipping for a buyer to tryout the bag. It is too costly and my bag could lose its value. There is a beauty in being patient in selling for me. When I see a seller with no returns, I understand but of course I would love returns.

 

[SomethingGoodCanWork]

No one is questioning returning a fake or a bag that is significantly not as described.
As a buyer, I try to do my research on the bag well before I buy it online. I have tried it on, looked at colors, and made an informed decision as to whether I want it. This goes for store purchases as well, if possible. Unless something is beat up, scuffed, etc., I would not seek to return.
I will admit, though, after getting a couple of bags described as pristine that were clearly well-used, I try only to buy new bags. I am picky.

I'm curious lulilu, did you/were you able to return the bags that weren't as pristine as the seller promised?

I've purchased quite a few pre-loved Balenciagas that were up to 10 years old. It would be impossible to find that color/leather combo these days, so sometimes, it's not a choice if you're in a love with a bag they no longer make.
But, there was only one time I bought from an individual. It was on Bonanza, and I realized she was on TPF - with thousands of posts, and an extensive Bal collection. So I took my chances.
Otherwise, I buy from known pre-loved stores, not individuals. These places rely solely on their reputations so they don't sell fakes or items in terrible condition. There's always full disclosure so I'm comfortable buying.

With all that said, sellers aren't in the business of sending out an item for inspection, and waiting to see if there's buyers remorse. I know that's not what you mean, but it sounds a little like that's what you're saying. So as long as the item is described properly, I don't see the big deal for no returns.
If the item is not as described, the return policy won't make a difference. That's just fraud and any good CC company would start a claim against the seller and issue you a refund anyway.

I'm beginning to feel that TPF is one of very few places where you can actually trust opinions on bags because of the fantastic authenticators and everyone else here because you really know your brands. I'm a newbie but even I have learnt a couple of things about for ex Bal bags. I was a bit chocked when I recently saw that a very reputable site in the UK with actual in house specialists was selling a Bal fake and couldn't even differentiate between a City and a First in their listing. I could definitely have bought that fake bag a couple of months ago, not knowing any better.

 

[Sparkletastic]

I'm curious lulilu, did you/were you able to return the bags that weren't as pristine as the seller promised?

I know you were addressing this to @luliu but I thought I'd add my experience.

Over the years, I've bought perhaps 50 preloved bags. I've only gotten 2 items that weren't in the condition described. In both cases, I sent pictures of the (previously undisclosed, unphotographed) wear / damage to the sellers as soon as I opened the box so that there wasn't a question of me having worn the item. One seller quickly apologized and accepted the return. eBay forced the return on the second.

I also have bought two fake bags - one on Tradesy and one the now defunct Myhabit. In both cases, I supplied the statements from the authenticators to the company and quickly received a refund. Tradesy also blocked the seller (who seemed to be a small business v an individual)

 

[SomethingGoodCanWork]

As a buyer returns are always awesome. On the seller end, returns can cost me money, time, and maybe a headache (difficult people). There are many different types of buyers on the pre-owned market. I prefer a decisive buyer that has realistic expectations on a pre-owned bag. I am all for waiting for the right buyer to buy my bag without using best offer and generous returns. In my experience, relying just on my listing with detailed pictures and descriptions brought the right buyers. The one time I tried to go for a quick sale I got a flake. Most buyers that want a return do not want to pay shipping. They will just claim SNAD. Shipping on expensive bags is costly, especially when the seller paid both ways. I also don't want to pay the shipping for a buyer to tryout the bag. It is too costly and my bag could lose its value. There is a beauty in being patient in selling for me. When I see a seller with no returns, I understand but of course I would love returns.

I agree that the buyer should pay all shipping costs for a return, traceable and insured if necessary.

 

[bernz84]

Generally I don't accept returns because I'm not a reseller and I will explicitly state this on my listings depending on the selling platform. However, if a buyer is pushy enough and just a pain in the ***, I will relent so long as the buyer returns the bag at her cost. With that said, I've never had anyone request a return from me (*knock on wood*). I always make sure I take good pics, encourage as many questions as possible, and emphasize in the listings that the bags I'm selling are used. I always encourage buyers to ask questions before buying. I know some sellers hate that, but I'd rather have someone ask me a zillion questions than deal with a buyer who wants to return because I "missed" something. Generally most of my buyers have told me that the bags they get from me look better than I described! So that makes me happy.

I think of all the years I've sold bags (and I don't sell a lot), I've only had one really bad buyer and I regret ever selling to her. She didn't ask for a return, though.

I've noticed that most sellers who offer returns or a return policy are high-volume resellers or online consignments; those who don't offer returns tend to be people who don't sell that much or just want to unload their closets. It's really up to you if you want to buy from this seller or that one. There are gains and risks to both. If an item was SNAD, a return should be mandatory regardless if you are a power seller or not.

 

[Sparkletastic]

Generally I don't accept returns because I'm not a reseller and I will explicitly state this on my listings depending on the selling platform. However, if a buyer is pushy enough and just a pain in the ***, I will relent so long as the buyer returns the bag at her cost. With that said, I've never had anyone request a return from me (*knock on wood*). I always make sure I take good pics, encourage as many questions as possible, and emphasize in the listings that the bags I'm selling are used. I always encourage buyers to ask questions before buying. I know some sellers hate that, but I'd rather have someone ask me a zillion questions than deal with a buyer who wants to return because I "missed" something. Generally most of my buyers have told me that the bags they get from me look better than I described! So that makes me happy.

I think of all the years I've sold bags (and I don't sell a lot), I've only had one really bad buyer and I regret ever selling to her. She didn't ask for a return, though.

I've noticed that most sellers who offer returns or a return policy are high-volume resellers or online consignments; those who don't offer returns tend to be people who don't sell that much or just want to unload their closets. It's really up to you if you want to buy from this seller or that one. There are gains and risks to both. If an item was SNAD, a return should be mandatory regardless if you are a power seller or not.

I 100% agree with you on questions. I never understand why people get frustrated with questions. I'd rather the buyer ask every single question they have so they are sure of what they're buying and I put that in my listings: "Please ask all questions before buying / bidding as all sales are final." I feel that as a seller I'm supposed to answer all the buyer's questions. I always try to put all my questions in one email so I don't send a barage of messages to the seller. But even if a buyer sent me multiple messages with multiple questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

And if an item is SNAD (or fake which is SNAD) eBay, Tradesy and PayPal require the seller to give a return. The buyer does not pay return shipping.

I like selling on Tradesy because if a buyer returns an item for any reason other than SNAD, Tradesy keeps the item and the buyer gets a store credit - not their money returned. That causes the buyer to have some "skin in the game" and buy carefully.

 

[jellyv]

I think a return policy should be fair to a buyer, but the online environment has to recognize the difference between individual sellers and bricks and mortar businesses or full-time sellers who sell online. For the occasional sale by a private person, accepting returns is a real burden not compensated for in any way--no overhead or losses to write off, no staff to help, etc. So I believe buy it and it's yours, except if the item is really truly not as described (and in my world, that would include odor issues, although eBay doesn't include that as a SNAD reason). Otherwise, a blanket OK-to-return policy forces out or at least unduly burdens casual sellers--many of us on TPF-- with buyer's-remorse shoppers.

Some people need to shop in stores only!

 

[bernz84]

I 100% agree with you on questions. I never understand why people get frustrated with questions. I'd rather the buyer ask every single question they have so they are sure of what they're buying and I put that in my listings: "Please ask all questions before buying / bidding as all sales are final." I feel that as a seller I'm supposed to answer all the buyer's questions. I always try to put all my questions in one email so I don't send a barage of messages to the seller. But even if a buyer sent me multiple messages with multiple questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

I have to agree! I'm a member of some Facebook BST groups, and some people get so irritated over people asking tons of questions. Even if the person who asks doesn't end up buying, I don't take it personally. It's the nature of the business! Maybe it's because I don't sell a lot, I don't know.

I have bought several preloved items from private collectors who stated "no returns" but I always did my homework...I checked out the feedback, looked at all the pics in the listing, and did research on the bag. If everything looked good on my end, I bought it. I've saved lots of $$$ as opposed to buying from a popular consignment.

I think a return policy should be fair to a buyer, but also the online environment has to recognize the difference between individual sellers and bricks and mortar businesses or full-time sellers who sell online. For the occasional sale by a private person, accepting returns is a real burden not compensated for in any way--no overhead or losses to write off, no staff to help, etc. So I believe buy it and it's yours, except if the item is really truly not as described (and in my world, that would include odor issues, although eBay doesn't include that as a SNAD reason). Otherwise, a blanket OK-toreturn policy forces out or at least unduly burdens those casual sellers--many of us on TPF--stuck with buyer's remorse shoppers.

Some people need to shop in stores only!

Word.

 

[southernbelle43]

Other parts of Scandinavia are similar law-wise but on certain larger sell sites I think the feedback system functions more like a kind of terror balancing "you give me bad feedback, I'll give you worse so don't you even dare!!!"-sort of situation. In such cases it's definitely better to just let it go. But luckily most people aren't like that and will work to resolve a situation.

I hope she at least thanked you for going out of your way like that!



Yes to everything



That's more than fair. I don't mind a no return policy for something if it's not that expensive but when something is costing several thousand EUR. or more I'd feel awful if what I purchased didn't live up to my expectations (imagined or not ).




I feel the same and no, it's not paranoia. It's common sense whether you are a buyer or seller to be careful. I can see it from both points.

I'm not an American but thank your husband for the service he and others in his profession are providing to try and keep us all safe. You are both brave

Thank you very much; I am very proud of what my husband did for many years before he retired. He was always fair, professional, kind and a credit to the profession.

 

[Cloudburst2000]

When buying new designer items, returns and refunds are generally no problem. Most webbshops have very generous return policies in my opinion, often for free.

But then we have the pre-owned market. Most private sellers state that they don't accept returns. Which I, as a potential buyer, think is a shame for a couple of reasons. Many pre-owned designer bags can still be quite pricey. Whether it's a new item or a pre-owned, you just will not know if you love something until you see and feel it for real for yourself and not just on a screen. The seller may miss out on a sale.

Now, how do I feel about this as a seller? Returns can probably be a huge pain. Right now I can't remember anyone wanting to return anything I've sold (which could also be due to the mutual hostage situation we are all held in as sellers and buyers due to various sale sites' feedback systems )

If you feel you have given it your honest all describing what you are selling, posting tons of pictures (and answering umpteenth type questions. I know I've asked some ) I understand it can be exasperating. To add insult to injury, maybe you had to sell at a lower price than you expected. Or have been hassled with ridiculous price suggestions.

But seeing it from both sides, I think at least 1-2 days is fair to let someone make up their mind. Especially if they are paying you a substantial amount of money. No more than 1-2 days though, unless agreed on and sold to someone you know of beforehand. And buyer pays for shipping plus traceable return shipping of course.

Please share your opinions and experiences!

I think a huge reason why many individual sellers don't accept returns is the likelihood of dealing with a fradualent buyer who buys the real thing and tries to send back a fake. As an individual seller, I wouldn't accept returns either. Just safer that way. I have never sold a bag but if I ever do will probably go through consignment like Yoogi's Closet or Fashionphile so they deal with the fraudulent buyers. There as many fradualent sellers as there are fraudulent buyers though (trying to sell a fake or seliing bag that does not have an accurate description, etc). I don't buy pre-owned often but when I do I stick with trusted resellers like Yoogi's Closet and Fashionphile.

 

[Jaime]

I only buy new this is one of the reasons. Where I live it is not law for shops to accept change of mind returns and some don't. I select shops that do because sometimes I do change my mind when I get it home. But I would never expect a private seller selling old second hand items they no longer want or use to accept returns. They aren't shops just trying to recoup some money possibly for their next purchase.
They are obligated to describe and list items accurately or they would have to refund based on that but for simple change of mind I don't believe they should offer it if they don't want to. Often, unless the item is out of production, you can try the item on in a store or something similar which could help deciding on a purchase. Otherwise buy new from stores that accept returns. The trade off for a cheaper price second hand is often that all sales are final or pay extra (as in full price) for the privilege/option in store.

 

[the_black_tie_diyer]

Hi!

I have done quite a few "cleaning out the closet" type sales on ebay, also with some of it being high-end designer type stuff.

I generally state that I'm a private seller (which I am) and I will not accept returns. I will also not accept PayPal for certain items - and this has in 2 cases saved my butt from loss, because buyers never bothered to pay for the item. Which I'm sure would have lead to some sort of fraud if I had given them the opportunity to pay via PayPal. eBay and PayPal (guidelines, TOS) are great for buyers but are a pain for sellers.

When I list something, I generally consider it a full loss until the item is paid for and positive feedback has been received. This way I'm not loosing any sleep over it.

A month ago I sold something via eBay and underestimated the weight at first = printed a shipping label that wouldn't cover actual shipping. So I cancelled that label a couple of minutes after creating/paying for it and created a new one. I shipped the item, buyer is happy, positive feedback given. All good. Weeks later I think of that cancelled shipping label - and can't find the refund. So I ask about it and get the answer that eBay (Germany) sets out a 21 day period to refund cancelled shipping labels. So I wait for 21 business days and re-check, and of course I didn't get any refund. (We're talking about 5,99 Euro...) So I call eBay and ask whats up with that. Answer: They need more time to process/check/*whatever*. Couple of days later I get an E-Mail that they need even more time. And that's were I am now.

To me this "case" is closed - I'm done. I will not spent more time running after a couple of lousy bucks - but it shows nicely what I mean when I say that eBay and PayPal are absolutely not seller friendly.

Back to not accepting returns: I upload at least 4 high-def, not altered (except for lighting), images per listing and generally point out to everything a potential buyer might want to know/ could have a "problem" with. I generally describe the item a little "worse" than it actually is. Currently I have 100% positive feedback, and the worst of the detailed seller feedback being "shipping costs" with 4.8 from 5 stars - that is because I don't offer any low budget shipping - I never ship without insurance and tracking.

Now if someone is unhappy with an item purchased from me and asks about a return in a civil/polite manner for whatever reason, which happened exactly one time, I will take it back regardless of what I stated in the auction details. Not making mountains outta molehills. BUT if a buyer is trying to "test" me, insulting and threatening - well, good luck with that. (I generally consider my PP/eBay account disposable, no funds in it, no CC tied to it - and I'm willing and more than ready to fight if necessary)

As buyers have a right to choose from whom they buy, sellers have a right to choose to whom they sell to, and if my auction details/policies as a PRIVATE seller turn a buyer off/away - so it be.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[girleuro]

I buy and sell bags on sites like eBay.

Of course, I don't like the no return policy as a buyer. LOL! But I understand it. Out of the last 15 bags I've bought (new and preloved) 8 had a no return policy. It makes me pause to make sure the seller seems to be trustworthy, the listing is accurate and complete and that I want the bag before I buy. But it doesn't stop me from buying. I always know that if the item isn't as described (damage not reported, it's a fake, etc.) I can return it. And if it is as described, I want it. So no worries.

As a seller I have a no returns policy because I accurately describe the items I sell. In fact if anything I really undersell them so the buyer will be very happy to avoid issues. So after providing a very detailed description and the maximum allowable number of photos, I expect the buyer to know what they are buying and be confident they want it BEFORE buying.

If they decide they don't want it because they misjudged the color, size, etc, I expect them to keep the bag as that was their error. If they try it out and feel it won't meet their needs I still expect them to keep it. That was their misjudgement. (When I make those kind of mistakes when buying on an eBay kind of site, I keep the bag and resell it. I don't send it back - the seller wasn't in error or fraudulent. I kick myself for not buying better and accept the consequences. I don't expect the seller to make up for my error.)

Also, people buying from me are getting a discount because I'm an individual not a store. I can't charge the same price that Fashionphile, etc can charge on the exact same bag. So as a trade off of the buyer enjoying that discount, they don't get the generous return policy a store, which does a volume business, can give. If they want that privilege, they need to pay a little more with a store.

One other issue with returns is people rarely care for your item. I used to accept returns within 15 days of receipt. Then I got one bag returned in a box much too small for the bag. So I now had a damaged bag I had to sell for less. Same with a pair of sunglasse that didn't have a case. I sent them padded in a rigid box. The buyer returned them with no padding in a flimsy box and they got broken in transit back to me. eBay doesn't make the seller "whole" in those circumstances. I also got several other returns just because the people didn't want it. I was out the original shipping and in some cases insurance. I'm not a store. I can't absorb those losses because someone changes their mind. And I shouldn't have to. So now I don't accept returns because I know more often than not my items won't come back as I sent it and I don't want to be out postage and insurance for someone doing a lookiloo instead of taking the time to really know they want the item. The better buyers know what they want and are educated on the item. I'm happy to pass up indecisive or uneducated buyers that have a higher likelihood of being a problem down the road.

I may sound a little hard line on this but I think that with transactions between individuals (vs. with a store) everyone has significant responsibility. The seller needs to be very up front and accurate on what they are selling. No excuses for not being able to take good pictures or measurements or clearly note flaws. Get the listing right if you want to sell. Then the buyer has a responsibility to read the listing, give the purchase some meaningful thought and only buy when they know they truly want the thing. Then they need to keep it when they just change their minds or decide they want something different.

At the end of the day, buying new retail with a return policy is an option. If someone wants a bargain, (like I do!) they have to accept they aren't getting the full retail experience.

Absolutely agree with you 100% !
I do buy and sell on EBay as well. I take time to research great sellers and a lot of times I research the items I buy and check other seller measurements and compare,check designer runway pictures if it's available.Ask questions and if I completely satisfied then I buy.
So I expect others to do the same. I am not the store and I can't afford to lose my time and money.

 

[JuneHawk]

I've recently had a bad experience as a seller with a buyer who didn't bother to look at the pictures well and then claimed I misrepresented the item. To me, it sounds like the person just had a case of buyers remorse and was hanging on to anything they could to make a case, but of course, I can't prove that. In the end, eBay sided with the buyer, which is screwed up because these days sellers have little to no protection from eBay. So now I'm stuck with the item again and I'm out shipping twice since part of the offer I accepted included free shipping and I have to pay shipping of the item back to me.

Long story short, as a buyer, don't be an douche either. Small fries like me are not big businesses who can afford all this back and forth. I sell my own stuff, I'm not a store. So if you are buying used, know that the finality of the purchase (except of course, in cases of true misrepresentation), is part of the territory.

 

[JuneHawk]

Just me but I will not purchase from anyone if there is a no return policy. I will keep hunting until I find what I want with a return policy. I have just read too much about fakes, etc., to take the chance. Plus being married to a law enforcement professional makes me more paranoid than most.

But if an item you purchase on eBay, say, is truly a fake, the no return policy does not apply. You can always open a case and I doubt eBay will side with the seller.