Hermès Faces Class Action Suit Over Birkin Sales Practices

[haute okole]

Well recently Chanel won a significant ip case that has potential significant impact on how others can use their marks and with reselling. Legal world was surprised the court went so far. California I think tends to favor consumers? It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

For those thinking about joining the suit they very well may get blacklisted if H wins out. Other brands do some level of what H does but H appears to be the most egregious.


Edit:
And for those who think there is lack of evidence on tying bags to prespend aren’t there multiple threads on this topic just on here? Bkc prespend and maintaining a relationship? What to buy? What ratios? Let’s be real.

Both Plaintiffs live in LA. The attorneys filed in the Federal Court in Northern California, which is in San Francisco. They chose this court presumably because they believe this court may be more anti big corporation. We shall see. This was such an unprofessional pleading. The Plaintiffs’ counsel should all be embarrassed.

 

[lovejoysunshine]

I am not sure anonymous social media posts can be admitted in court as evidence in such a case. This is not an online defamation, harassment or stalking or incitement to violence or terrorism case. Maybe if the posters were willing to provide their full names and personal details to the plaintiffs’ lawyers and sign sworn statements with names of SAs/SMs of specific locations with details of conversations and what was bought and sold to prove the practice of linked selling. Or maybe if ex-employees are willing to give statements/testify. Perhaps a US lawyer can chime in.

Anyway, am interested to see how this plays out too. I don’t necessarily see a move to the wishlist system in Europe as more beneficial for most shoppers. The VIPs/celebrities/big spenders will probably still have access. Maybe more people with little shopping history will get lucky but there may just be fewer bags to go around for the regular shoppers who like boutique merchandise but are not big spenders and slowly spend and build SA relationships over a few years.

Don’t think this has negatively impacted Hermès stock price, it seems to have recovered amidst a broader sell-off of luxury stocks today. Some other luxury stocks are faring significantly worse.

 

[SDC2003]

Customers speculating online is hardly court worthy proof...

We have seen more than just speculation but comments from clients that sa said this or that here and elsewhere. And besides everyone knows that one has to prespend. You are one of preeminent experts here and have weighed in heavily on prespend. How much is enough to be considered for a bag? We don’t know the exact amount but the prespend is needed.

Edit: relatedly I think management will be clamping down on bag discussion given this suit. Will be interesting to see how Sa’s respond going forward while this suit is pending.

 

[jenayb]

The system at least in the US is quite opaque. For every one of us who contribute our own experience to the prespend thread, there are many who say that they walk in and are offered the bag of their dreams.

Plus, a class action of those coerced to buy beautiful luxury items. Good luck with that

ETA: re the post above that mentioned watches, Luxury watch companies that limit production (not referring to a large scale like Rolex here) do limit the offer of their most coveted models to current clients of the house. But, it’s hardly considered coercion and certainly not tied to acquisition of product.

Try, for example, walking into Patek to ask for the olive green faced limited nautilus lol.

Yes. This. If you read comments on social media as this story makes its rounds, let's just say that the general populous is not dripping with sympathy for those who have spent and have not been offered a QB.

 

[foxyqt]

 

[haute okole]

Anonymous social media posts are inadmissible hearsay and not evidence in court. To prove tying, Plaintiffs will have to bring in a witness who can testify under oath, in deposition or in a declaration, that they experienced this situation firsthand at Hermes. Even better, they may try to obtain evidence from an Hermes insider to admit under oath that they used this tying sales tactic to sell “Birkings” or “Berkins.”

 

[I AM GPT]

Imagine using random internet forum posts as evidence in this case.

Better hope their lawyers dont discover the Influencer thread here.

 

[Love Of My Life]

I am not sure anonymous social media posts can be admitted in court as evidence in such a case. This is not an online defamation, harassment or stalking or incitement to violence or terrorism case. Maybe if the posters were willing to provide their full names and personal details to the plaintiffs’ lawyers and sign sworn statements with names of SAs/SMs of specific locations with details of conversations and what was bought and sold to prove the practice of linked selling. Or maybe if ex-employees are willing to give statements/testify. Perhaps a US lawyer can chime in.

Anyway, am interested to see how this plays out too. I don’t necessarily see a move to the wishlist system in Europe as more beneficial for most shoppers. The VIPs/celebrities/big spenders will probably still have access. Maybe more people with little shopping history will get lucky but there may just be fewer bags to go around for the regular shoppers who like boutique merchandise but are not big spenders and slowly spend and build SA relationships over a few years.

Don’t think this has negatively impacted Hermès stock price, it seems to have recovered amidst a broader sell-off of luxury stocks today. Some other luxury stocks are faring significantly worse.

Disgruntled employees make for hostile witnesses in addition to many of the comments made
are hearsay & there needs to be substantial proof & backup for any credibility.
These plaintiffs shopped at their own free will & how they felt they were "coerced" remains to be seen
It will be interesting to see how all this plays out & also to see if others from the USA will come forward to participate in this class action suit & whoever does will likely be blacklisted & well deserved...all this for a bag?

 

[addiCCted]

Unless they get official Hermes documents of such practices I think everything is heresay. Or video footage of undercover sa showing management mentioning that. But even then it could be argued as rogue employee.

That’s probably why they have lucky walk in qb offers. Exactly to prove cases where linked sales is not the case.

But it can see them arguing the bags are handmade so there will never be enough bags for everyone who wants one. So what now? The govt can force manufactures to make sure everyone’s demands are met?

I'm thinking this will just be dropped by the court/judge.

Depends on if judges and/or spouse also has a birkin or not.

I jest

 

[880]

Disgruntled, would be, birkin buyers are not a protected class

I say this as a regular client who would like the right bag to come along and is waiting lol

ETA: I tally prespend as a voluntary contribution to the relevant TPF thread, with the understanding that experiences differ. I don’t think of my shopping as coerced

 

[acrowcounted]

We have seen more than just speculation but comments from clients that sa said this or that here and elsewhere. And besides everyone knows that one has to prespend. You are one of preeminent experts here and have weighed in heavily on prespend. How much is enough to be considered for a bag? We don’t know the exact amount but the prespend is needed.

And as I've stated countless times, prespend is not an actual policy of the store nor the brand. Hermes has fewer bags than people who want to buy the bags. They HAVE TO come up with a way to determine who to sell them to. The current solution seems to be for a consumer to have an on-going client relationship with the house. My experience has never been "buy this and I'll offer you that". Never. I am a good client, purchase things that I want and love and use and once in a blue moon, my SA likes to make me happy by surprising me with an amazing piece available for me to purchase. I do not consider this linked sales. (Also there is almost always at least one retort to any prespend advice that I give of "well I just walked in and they offered me 37 bags as a new client walk in!!" )

Should it be illegal to hold a table at a popular restaurant for a couple that comes in every Saturday night at 7pm for 20 years? Is that linked sales? (I'll sell you dinner next week so long as you buy one this week!!) Should a boutique hotel who orders 100 floral arrangements from a small floral shop each week not get first choice to the new exotic bloom that the vendor just delivered? What about volume discounts? Shouldnt that be illegal ("you can pay less linked to the purchase of more!!") In the US, a private company can choose not to sell to anyone they don't want to for any reason as long as the reason doesn't violate a protected class (age, disability, national origin, race, religion, sex, veteran status, and genetic information). It is perfectly legal to think: I won't sell to you because I don't know you well enough (because you haven't shopped here as much as someone else). Prespend calculations are just a way for clients to gauge the strength of the relationship vs other shoppers. (I also find it amusing that this method of shopping is romanticized when talking about the classic French consumer but vilified for US Hermes)

I'd really be curious to hear from these plaintiffs, or anyone who is vehemently against the current "relationship with the house" method of offering the coveted goods, how they would fix the problem without torpedoing the company's bottom line? If we are to believe that the only reason most clients are buying non-bag items is because of prespend, then eliminating the relationship model will annihilate revenue. If H increases bag production to meet demand, exclusivity will be annihilated and demand will follow for all of the company's good as the perceived prestige level falls. Even in the wishlist system as in Europe/UK, there is still obvious evidence of the highest spenders getting the most/best bags so that system would still be a violation no different than the current system. I'm guessing the proposed solution would be some form of "make it completely random...just make sure I'm one of the lucky ones who are randomly selected..." The only true way to eliminate the customer profile and make bags accessible without killing revenue or exclusivity would be for Hermes to increase the price of all bags by at least 5x (or more if 5x doesn't do the trick). But I'm guessing these plaintiffs don't want to spend $60k for a basic togo Birkin either...

 

[hermesgeek]

***30 pages deep in the overheard thread***

 

[acrowcounted]

To get extremely nit-picky, isn't any multi-piece item technically a linked sale? I cannot buy a left shoe from basically any store anywhere unless I also agree to buy a right shoe. I cannot buy a new Apple Watch from Apple unless I also pay for a new band. I cannot buy five Oreos from the pack unless I also agree to buy the other 42 Oreos. I think I may have just stumbled onto an infinite money glitch; time to contact my lawyers!!

Or maybe H should make "Birkin bundles" similar to their belt kits. For $35k you get this pair of shoes, this Rose Gold diamond necklace, this bomber jacket, this belt, and this B30! Hmmm...

 

[jag]

To get extremely nit-picky, isn't any multi-piece item technically a linked sale? I cannot buy a left shoe from basically any store anywhere unless I also agree to buy a right shoe. I cannot buy a new Apple Watch from Apple unless I also pay for a new band. I cannot buy five Oreos from the pack unless I also agree to buy the other 42 Oreos. I think I may have just stumbled onto an infinite money glitch; time to contact my lawyers!!

Or maybe H should make "Birkin bundles" similar to their belt kits. For $35k you get this pair of shoes, this Rose Gold diamond necklace, this bomber jacket, this belt, and this B30! Hmmm...

I think it has more to do with this (not that i am saying I agree or disagree): https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance...s/single-firm-conduct/tying-sale-two-products

 

[nashpoo]

Lmao 😴