Hermès and Ethics: Sustainability, Animal Testing and Treatment, Corporate Social Responsibility
- Thread starter QuelleFromage
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the only thing that will make the fashion industry less environmentally taxing is by producing less and creating less waste. However, this is in direct contradiction to a corporate's fiduciary duty: shareholder wealth maximisation. Don't get me wrong, I love H, I only recently completed a research project that investigates their annual reports amongst others, but any of the brands (vegan or 'real' leather) still want to sell as much as possible... synthetics are not necessarily better for the environment....
what makes me feel better (false psychology I am sure...) is that with H, I am actually buying into a sustainability mindset because I can get my expensive bags refurbished. That in itself is worth the premium prices to me -
what makes me feel better (false psychology I am sure...) is that with H, I am actually buying into a sustainability mindset because I can get my expensive bags refurbished. That in itself is worth the premium prices to me -
I do feel that buying fewer bags that should last forever, is a better move in terms of sustainability than chasing new "it bags" every year. But yes, to a certain extent any packaged goods company, not just fashion, is going to create waste as a byproduct of corporate profits.
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NOTE:
When posting this, I was thinking in terms of cruelty free. Regarding the eco-friendly factor, it would depend on what the specific composition of the material is. There are synthetics that are not as damaging to the environment as others and while I'm not an expert
, I do hope those are the kind of synthetics Hermes uses.
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absolutely - one of the big reasons I am comfortable with H is that they offer the long-term sustainability concept built into their business model and their products. It makes spending a big amount on a bag much easier. I feel that any of these bags might outlive me
. fast fashion for sure is a killer in so many ways. at the same time, H still wants us to buy more than anyone would really 'need'
Sorry if this is not totally related to the topic at hand but I thought it was suitable when we talked about Hermes and CSR.
I'm working in sustainability and I'm really battling a personal dilemma. I love luxury leather goods and I invest in them and it brings me joy. I currently have 3 Hermes bags, 3 Chanels, and a bunch from other brands. I love every bag I own and I only buy timeless pieces that I plan to keep in my collection forever. But at the same time I feel ashamed of using these products because a lot of people who I interact with everyday are animal activists. How do I deal with this dilemma? I also feel bad because although I own a lot of nice leather bags, they barely get to see the light of day as I can't carry them a lot in my everyday life.
I'm working in sustainability and I'm really battling a personal dilemma. I love luxury leather goods and I invest in them and it brings me joy. I currently have 3 Hermes bags, 3 Chanels, and a bunch from other brands. I love every bag I own and I only buy timeless pieces that I plan to keep in my collection forever. But at the same time I feel ashamed of using these products because a lot of people who I interact with everyday are animal activists. How do I deal with this dilemma? I also feel bad because although I own a lot of nice leather bags, they barely get to see the light of day as I can't carry them a lot in my everyday life.
I have this issue, too. I am moving away from leather as much as makes sense for me. HOWEVER, I also factor in the impact of faux leathers on the environment (some are fine, some are terrible) and the longevity of items.
Non-H example: In moving away from leather I bought a pair of vegan "Uggs" (obviously a non Ugg version) to replace my 16 year old Uggs which had finally worn down. (Let me be clear: I ONLY wear these to the dance studio and boxing gym, post surfing, and occasionally in the house - as Uggs are intended to be worn lol! No judgment but for me Uggs aren't shoes haha).
The vegan "Uggs" wore out in six months of this light use, and I am now thinking I just buy another pair of real Uggs. Animal skin yes, but will last another decade and a half. Far less wasteful than this vegan pair which will still end up in landfill.
With my H bags I know they will last forever - one is already almost 70 years old. I am also happy to know the leather used is a byproduct of food animals (although I rarely eat meat, I do not think it is going away in France anytime soon). BUT I am continuing to minimize my leather use and am selling many of my bags to get down to a minimal but forever edit. In my daily life when working in activist/conscious circles or in the developing world, I carry something vegan and plain but not wasteful, like a natural fiber tote bag.
I guess what I am saying is that it is a continuum. You can try to be "pure", go vegan and wear only sustainable fiber clothing and shoes - but it's also ok to just try to minimize impact and harm. Do what YOU can live with, not what others need to do for their personal beliefs.
Thanks for this great reasoning! I also agree so much that good quality leather products outlast synthetic products. I try to limit my meat intake and I do also feel less bad knowing that the skin is coming from an animal who is most likely been slaughtered for the meat anyway. For now I have only invested in investment pieces that I do believe I will pass on to my children. My bags that are over 10 years old still show very little sign of wear and tear. But my synthetic stuff like nylon and cloth bags and such always wear out after a few months.
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This is a very good topic and a very good conversation. Since I've been struggling with the same questions and considerations, I find your different thoughts and perspectives very informative. Thanks for posting them!
I just found this thread and am so glad I did - I have definitely been struggling with these thoughts! Sorry for the forthcoming word vomit!
Why am I ok with a leather bag but would never own a fur? What is truly the difference? The sustainability reports linked here may not have fully assuaged my guilt, but have made me feel “less bad” about my purchases with H. I very much appreciate using the skins of animals already being raised for food, at least we are getting closer to a whole animal/less waste mentality. I am far from perfect, my husband and I eat a good amount of meat, but try to only buy from local butcher shops that are part of a coop with regional farms which certify the animals’ living conditions and treatment (5 freedoms I think they call it). We also try to limit disposable plastic in our home (you should see the way my in-laws go though single use plastic storage bags and water bottles!
)
I am also from a very rural part of the US where most people (my parents included) hunted to put food on the table. I still have several deer hide items made out of those animals and very much appreciate them. Are they pristine skins? Absolutely not but I appreciate the animal they came from and that they’ve lasted 20+ years. My husband does occasionally go back to join on hunting trips. I suppose I wouldn’t be opposed to a goose down or rabbit fur item coming from those trips, as there wasn’t any “cruelty” per se or inhuman farming involved, just a continuation of the food chain with humans being the ultimate apex predictor (but that’s for another rant...)
Curious on thoughts about Ostrich? It’s somewhere in between cowhide and reptile exotics, and I noticed there wasn’t as much included in the reports about Ostrich. I know parts of the world eat ostrich meat, but not where I’m from, so I don’t have a great sense of whether the farming practices fall more towards the cow (use of hides of animals already being raised) or more toward the croc/gator where they are farmed mostly for skins.
All of this to say: I do feel better spending my money with a company who at least attempts to increase sustainability and humane practices. It’s also another data point in my thinking to start consolidating my spend to H, rather than different brand(s) with aggressive price increases, who shall remain nameless
thank you for to my TedTalk
Why am I ok with a leather bag but would never own a fur? What is truly the difference? The sustainability reports linked here may not have fully assuaged my guilt, but have made me feel “less bad” about my purchases with H. I very much appreciate using the skins of animals already being raised for food, at least we are getting closer to a whole animal/less waste mentality. I am far from perfect, my husband and I eat a good amount of meat, but try to only buy from local butcher shops that are part of a coop with regional farms which certify the animals’ living conditions and treatment (5 freedoms I think they call it). We also try to limit disposable plastic in our home (you should see the way my in-laws go though single use plastic storage bags and water bottles!
)I am also from a very rural part of the US where most people (my parents included) hunted to put food on the table. I still have several deer hide items made out of those animals and very much appreciate them. Are they pristine skins? Absolutely not but I appreciate the animal they came from and that they’ve lasted 20+ years. My husband does occasionally go back to join on hunting trips. I suppose I wouldn’t be opposed to a goose down or rabbit fur item coming from those trips, as there wasn’t any “cruelty” per se or inhuman farming involved, just a continuation of the food chain with humans being the ultimate apex predictor (but that’s for another rant...)
Curious on thoughts about Ostrich? It’s somewhere in between cowhide and reptile exotics, and I noticed there wasn’t as much included in the reports about Ostrich. I know parts of the world eat ostrich meat, but not where I’m from, so I don’t have a great sense of whether the farming practices fall more towards the cow (use of hides of animals already being raised) or more toward the croc/gator where they are farmed mostly for skins.
All of this to say: I do feel better spending my money with a company who at least attempts to increase sustainability and humane practices. It’s also another data point in my thinking to start consolidating my spend to H, rather than different brand(s) with aggressive price increases, who shall remain nameless
thank you for to my TedTalk
Reading this thread is an interesting one. Several thoughts:
1. Luxury brands, no matter what they do or say in their social responsibility programmes, are all geared for profit. The trick they need to always consider is about making that change sustainable - particularly to their business model, supply chains and impact on customer perception. I prefer to read these CSR statements with a pinch of salt. I'm sure if you compare against LVMH and Kering, you'll find equally impressive statements. Sometimes its not whats said, but what is NOT said.
2. Being environmentally friendly may not necessarily tick the sustainability box, as sustainability is a broader concept that includes social and economic factors. For eg, A brand may choose not using cow leather anymore and this may be good for the environment, but it may completely decimate a village or community that relies on selling leather. Hence, on balance, this may not be the best option as this village might either start selling a different type of leather or clear forests etc to plant corn.
3. I'm not a fan of fur but I've read that animals bred for fur are usually well taken care of, as a terribly kept mink or fox will show in its fur. So these companies are commercially incentivised to provide a good environment for these animals. I highly doubt that such motivation exists in the cow leather industry.
Good topic to have but I still think that Hermes having higher price points does contribute to sustainability causes (especially if the bags are 100% repairable).
1. Luxury brands, no matter what they do or say in their social responsibility programmes, are all geared for profit. The trick they need to always consider is about making that change sustainable - particularly to their business model, supply chains and impact on customer perception. I prefer to read these CSR statements with a pinch of salt. I'm sure if you compare against LVMH and Kering, you'll find equally impressive statements. Sometimes its not whats said, but what is NOT said.
2. Being environmentally friendly may not necessarily tick the sustainability box, as sustainability is a broader concept that includes social and economic factors. For eg, A brand may choose not using cow leather anymore and this may be good for the environment, but it may completely decimate a village or community that relies on selling leather. Hence, on balance, this may not be the best option as this village might either start selling a different type of leather or clear forests etc to plant corn.
3. I'm not a fan of fur but I've read that animals bred for fur are usually well taken care of, as a terribly kept mink or fox will show in its fur. So these companies are commercially incentivised to provide a good environment for these animals. I highly doubt that such motivation exists in the cow leather industry.
Good topic to have but I still think that Hermes having higher price points does contribute to sustainability causes (especially if the bags are 100% repairable).
The thread is here for everyone struggling with, or just interested in, these issuesI just found this thread and am so glad I did - I have definitely been struggling with these thoughts! Sorry for the forthcoming word vomit!
Why am I ok with a leather bag but would never own a fur? What is truly the difference? The sustainability reports linked here may not have fully assuaged my guilt, but have made me feel “less bad” about my purchases with H. I very much appreciate using the skins of animals already being raised for food, at least we are getting closer to a whole animal/less waste mentality. I am far from perfect, my husband and I eat a good amount of meat, but try to only buy from local butcher shops that are part of a coop with regional farms which certify the animals’ living conditions and treatment (5 freedoms I think they call it). We also try to limit disposable plastic in our home (you should see the way my in-laws go though single use plastic storage bags and water bottles!
I am also from a very rural part of the US where most people (my parents included) hunted to put food on the table. I still have several deer hide items made out of those animals and very much appreciate them. Are they pristine skins? Absolutely not but I appreciate the animal they came from and that they’ve lasted 20+ years. My husband does occasionally go back to join on hunting trips. I suppose I wouldn’t be opposed to a goose down or rabbit fur item coming from those trips, as there wasn’t any “cruelty” per se or inhuman farming involved, just a continuation of the food chain with humans being the ultimate apex predictor (but that’s for another rant...)
Curious on thoughts about Ostrich? It’s somewhere in between cowhide and reptile exotics, and I noticed there wasn’t as much included in the reports about Ostrich. I know parts of the world eat ostrich meat, but not where I’m from, so I don’t have a great sense of whether the farming practices fall more towards the cow (use of hides of animals already being raised) or more toward the croc/gator where they are farmed mostly for skins.
All of this to say: I do feel better spending my money with a company who at least attempts to increase sustainability and humane practices. It’s also another data point in my thinking to start consolidating my spend to H, rather than different brand(s) with aggressive price increases, who shall remain nameless
thank you for to my TedTalk
I don't know much about ostrich that is used for skin...off the cuff it seems they'd likely have to be raised for leather as opposed to being a food byproduct, but we can hope. Maybe someone else has a better informed perspective
Either way, thank you for adding to the discussion !
I’ve seen ostrich meat in the normal grocery stores with some frequency! My mom used to get it occasionally to cook with because it’s a red meat that’s apparently healthier than beef. I know the eggs have cuilinary uses as well, seen on menus, but I haven’t seen those for sale in grocery stores or markets.The thread is here for everyone struggling with, or just interested in, these issues
I don't know much about ostrich that is used for skin...off the cuff it seems they'd likely have to be raised for leather as opposed to being a food byproduct, but we can hope. Maybe someone else has a better informed perspective
Either way, thank you for adding to the discussion !
I understand finding confort in using leather that is a by-product of food, I want to think that too because it is true. At the same time, the reality is that often the hide is the most profitable by-product of the animal, particularly if it is a good hide that can be used by a luxury house... And also, that if we stop eating meat (I eat very little and almost no beef at all), then what? We end up breeding cows or sheep only for the hide?
It is all very difficult.
One thing though, I understand that Hermes has been buying its own tanneries in France and other European countries, to ensure supply and quality. So they are in a privileged position to do something about ensuring that the animals they use are being treated well and to enforce some minimum standards on that. So that is I thing we should expect from them...
It is all very difficult.
One thing though, I understand that Hermes has been buying its own tanneries in France and other European countries, to ensure supply and quality. So they are in a privileged position to do something about ensuring that the animals they use are being treated well and to enforce some minimum standards on that. So that is I thing we should expect from them...
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