Docride's Hermes vintage bag nightmares & Hermes leather care

[Pias]

Hello
I wanted to do a little lesson about "Natural" when describing Hermes leathers ...funny thing natural can mean "a color" such as pale tan or buff for instance on a finished leather; or it can mean that the leather surface is naked such as in unfinished leathers such as Barenia ( all of the barenia colors are still unfinished leather olive,fauve,black or indigo) or Vache natural (which is usually semi finished). What was once called "natural" barenia is now called fauve.

The color "natural" can be found on many finished leathers such as Epsom, Charmonix, Courchevel, Ardennes,clemence and I'm sure some others which I did not mention...

A finished leather generally means one or more clear or colored top coats has been applied on top of the surface of the leather.
Most leathers today are finished leathers, that's why they can often be restored or touched up by applying a matching colored finish to areas of wear or stains or color-loss .

Ive gone into greater depth on this subject on my blog if interested

I love how you explain to us deliberately. Thank you so much for always helping and teaching us. I'm glad that I didn't go ahead with that bag as I don't think I would like Vache Natural as much as Chamonix. I don't really like seeing pale color leather turn dark brown with use. It is just me...
Btw, I would like to also thank you for your service. I just compared the Kelly bag I got it back from you and pictures I took before sending to you. She looks really good and shiny, much better after your service! Thank you!!
Happy New Year to you, DocRide! May this year bring you more joy and better health!

 

[docride]

View attachment 3528714
Hi @docride... I thought I'd add this photo so that you can see the effect I'm looking for... I know I should be patient, but I'd love to condition my bag so that it looks like this!! Please let me know how to achieve this gorgeous patina. Thank you so much!!

That Barenia Birkin bag in the photo if I'm not mistaken is a bag I once owned or looks just like it.. if it is then the color you see is its original color its not had a bunch of conditioning to achieve that color. Barenia can have many shades of color and still be all considered fauve/natural. Generally Barenia over time and with use gets a distressed relaxed look to it, Vache Naturelle can look more even and better over time if cared for ... becoming deeper in color .... and depending upon how much semi-finish is present and what is below the semi finish as to how even the results will be...
Both of these leathers are earthy and organic they gain patina and will look singularly beautiful from any other .... these leathers are best for those that enjoy that relaxed non dressy look...
I hope this helps? All the best,doc

 

[docride]

I love how you explain to us deliberately. Thank you so much for always helping and teaching us. I'm glad that I didn't go ahead with that bag as I don't think I would like Vache Natural as much as Chamonix. I don't really like seeing pale color leather turn dark brown with use. It is just me...
Btw, I would like to also thank you for your service. I just compared the Kelly bag I got it back from you and pictures I took before sending to you. She looks really good and shiny, much better after your service! Thank you!!
Happy New Year to you, DocRide! May this year bring you more joy and better health!

Thank you and a Happy New year to you and yours also

 

[docride]

Hi again Doc, decided against the light Chamonix Kelly given the stains so I'm thinking of getting this rouge H Kelly, it is a stamp C in Togo leather. I'm aware Togo in different years look quite different - is this indeed Togo? I was also thinking could it perhaps be Ardennes? And if so, how do I clean off a small black mark at the back ? Photos attached! Thanks!

True story, clemence when it has tiny grains can look like togo... generally togo has higher and small grains and a matte dry stiffer appearance , clemence has flatter larger grains and a slight sheen buttery and softer appearance. So looking at your bag my first thought is.. hmm i'm not sure.... LOL kind of leaning toward togo but a whole bag shot photo would help nail it...
When you look at your bag a whole shot seeing the whole bag which of the qualities can you see in your bag?
All the best,doc

 

[Miss Al]

Hi doc,

I have some light scratches on my rouge h box calf Kelly. What can I do to minimise the scratches. Thanks in advance.

 

[Tonimichelle]

Hi doc, I'm so glad you're back! I purchased a vintage box Kelly in November and have been desperate to ask some questions I sent her to H Paris for corner repair and a new handle (although I didn't know I needed that until I read this thread!). Any how, when she comes back, I really need advice on how to care for her please? She seemed a little dry in areas, I'm hoping Hermes will have helped but should I condition her, how often and what with? Also, I live in the uk, it rains! Quite a lot! And frequently when it was dry in the morning when you left the house! Just how fragile is box? Should I be terrified to use her when there is a cloud in the sky?! I feel that as she is probably at least 50 years old it is unlikely she never got caught in the rain, but I've read so much info I'm worried I'm going to be scared to use her when she finally comes back from Paris. Thank you for your help

 

[Bagthatbag]

Hello Docride,

If I may ask you a question, I recently purchased this vintage box Kelly For a very reasonable price and knowing it was not new by any means. Still, I hope with a little tlc to turn her into a beauty. See pic's below, what do you think? I am most worried about the cracking leather on the straps and the difference in color. Should I contition and waterproof and use dye or meltonian with color?

 

[Bagthatbag]

Thank you so much in advance!

 

[docride]

Hi doc,

I have some light scratches on my rouge h box calf Kelly. What can I do to minimise the scratches. Thanks in advance.

Hi there, A nice neutral polish or a conditioning can help blend those scratches and make them less noticeable. especially if those scratches are light ones... I like to condition my box calf bags and then polished with a neutral (no color) polish ... buffing the bag with a buffing cloth can help blend scratches blend back into the patina in between polishes.
I hope this helps?
All the best,doc

 

[Miss Al]

Hi there, A nice neutral polish or a conditioning can help blend those scratches and make them less noticeable. especially if those scratches are light ones... I like to condition my box calf bags and then polished with a neutral (no color) polish ... buffing the bag with a buffing cloth can help blend scratches blend back into the patina in between polishes.
I hope this helps?
All the best,doc

Thanks for the reply. Which leather conditioner would you recommend?

 

[docride]

View attachment 3564177 Hi doc, I'm so glad you're back! I purchased a vintage box Kelly in November and have been desperate to ask some questions I sent her to H Paris for corner repair and a new handle (although I didn't know I needed that until I read this thread!). Any how, when she comes back, I really need advice on how to care for her please? She seemed a little dry in areas, I'm hoping Hermes will have helped but should I condition her, how often and what with? Also, I live in the uk, it rains! Quite a lot! And frequently when it was dry in the morning when you left the house! Just how fragile is box? Should I be terrified to use her when there is a cloud in the sky?! I feel that as she is probably at least 50 years old it is unlikely she never got caught in the rain, but I've read so much info I'm worried I'm going to be scared to use her when she finally comes back from Paris. Thank you for your help

Hello there, well she's a real beauty! That's my favorite color of Rouge H on Box Calf.. and there are many! A well conditioned and cared for box calf is a treasure and can be expected to last for generations. I believe most vintage Box Calf should have its old polish removed, the bag cleaned, conditioned and re-polished at least every couple of years even if its just being stored in a box.. but that's me.. you may wish to do less than that. If you bag is going to see heavy weather use a weather shield product or a good conditioners and a polish will help protect it from water damage and blistering. You're in the UK so can find Saphir , Kelly or Woly conditioning and neutral polish products I believe...you will also want a shine cloth and soft shoe brush Always test products in a small hidden area like the back side of a strap to make sure you like the way the product and your bag get along before moving on to whole panels or large areas.
I hope this helps?
All the best,doc

 

[Tonimichelle]

Hello there, well she's a real beauty! That's my favorite color of Rouge H on Box Calf.. and there are many! A well conditioned and cared for box calf is a treasure and can be expected to last for generations. I believe most vintage Box Calf should have its old polish removed, the bag cleaned, conditioned and re-polished at least every couple of years even if its just being stored in a box.. but that's me.. you may wish to do less than that. If you bag is going to see heavy weather use a weather shield product or a good conditioners and a polish will help protect it from water damage and blistering. You're in the UK so can find Saphir , Kelly or Woly conditioning and neutral polish products I believe...you will also want a shine cloth and soft shoe brush Always test products in a small hidden area like the back side of a strap to make sure you like the way the product and your bag get along before moving on to whole panels or large areas.
I hope this helps?
All the best,doc

That's a massive help doc, thank you! So just to clarify, when she comes back from Hermes I shouldn't apply any conditioners or polishes for a while? I don't want to remove anything they have done, just keep her moisturised and give some protection if I get caught in a shower?

 

[Aileenlnbh]

I would ask that if you have an Hermes leather or restoration question your would post it here
Thank you.
All the best doc

hi doc how do you protect and/or maintain peau porc pls - the item is a Jige

 

[missmabel5]

Hello -
First, thanks to Doc and all who have posted here and in the box calf nerd thread about care of vintage box calf. Your advice is so useful and much appreciated. I have a question I'm hoping Doc or others can weigh in on.

I have just gotten up the courage to try to in-house (gulp) condition my vintage box Kelly. She is in beautiful condition, but I want to avoid the leather getting dry and generally keep her well cared for, and wait times for the spa at the moment are 6 months in my area.

I'm not able to get Doc's recommended Blackrock, but I did have Saphir Medaille d'Or Nappa Baum on hand, and based on the advice from Doc and others previously mentioned, decided to test it in a small patch on the bottom of the bag. I can now see, very lightly when turned just so in the light, the small buffing circles where I applied the Saphir. (The bag is blu indigo - although it may not have been called that then, I guess - with a nice shine and 'mirror'', so it's probably also comparatively easy to see the marks.) I have only applied the Saphir maybe 20 minutes ago, but have rebuffed to see if this goes away, and so far no. It is almost as if there is a light residue collecting in some of the natural cracks of the bag, which is visible. Perhaps I need a special buffing cloth? I am only using a soft cotton cloth currently. I've used the Saphir in this way on skins before, but never on box. Any tips or advice would be appreciated - I'm not going to apply to any other part of the bag until I'm sure this is going to go away. TIA for any advice!!

 

[docride]

Hello -
First, thanks to Doc and all who have posted here and in the box calf nerd thread about care of vintage box calf. Your advice is so useful and much appreciated. I have a question I'm hoping Doc or others can weigh in on.

I have just gotten up the courage to try to in-house (gulp) condition my vintage box Kelly. She is in beautiful condition, but I want to avoid the leather getting dry and generally keep her well cared for, and wait times for the spa at the moment are 6 months in my area.

I'm not able to get Doc's recommended Blackrock, but I did have Saphir Medaille d'Or Nappa Baum on hand, and based on the advice from Doc and others previously mentioned, decided to test it in a small patch on the bottom of the bag. I can now see, very lightly when turned just so in the light, the small buffing circles where I applied the Saphir. (The bag is blu indigo - although it may not have been called that then, I guess - with a nice shine and 'mirror'', so it's probably also comparatively easy to see the marks.) I have only applied the Saphir maybe 20 minutes ago, but have rebuffed to see if this goes away, and so far no. It is almost as if there is a light residue collecting in some of the natural cracks of the bag, which is visible. Perhaps I need a special buffing cloth? I am only using a soft cotton cloth currently. I've used the Saphir in this way on skins before, but never on box. Any tips or advice would be appreciated - I'm not going to apply to any other part of the bag until I'm sure this is going to go away. TIA for any advice!!

Hello,
I not longer recommend Blackrock or Obenaufs LP because too many had application problems. On vintage box calf you can use many different conditions and be ok the main thing is to test a hidden area first to make sure you like the results before moving to large visible areas. You could use what you have it shouldn't do any hard though it is not specifically for box calf., a nice light conditioning leather cream or lotion would be best, and avoid any straight oil or fat type products.
OK so you applied a small amount of conditioner or cleanser over old polish I presume? So if you circle marks are not going away with buffing tem you mayb have partially removed the old polish and that the problem? I really cant tell because I cant see... a photo would help.
I'll check back...don't panic... most of these things can be fixed easily enough.
All the best,doc