Docride's Hermes Lazarus Thread (can this Hermes be Saved? )

[lovely2008]

HI Docride, I just find another one. It's '96 Kelly 32. This one look like toile with boxcalf. Off-white or beige? When I ask seller what color and leather is this bag, seller said it's beige with gold hardware and it's leather and horse hair. What do you think of its condition? I see the toile has worn down on the back near the handle, is this repairable? Will cleaning the toile, improve the fading part in the front? Are the cracks/tears on the belt wrapping part severe? It looked like it's from use or too dry? I hope I make sense. Does this bag have too many issues? Thanks!

 

[docride]

HI Docride, I just find another one. It's '96 Kelly 32. This one look like toile with boxcalf. Off-white or beige? When I ask seller what color and leather is this bag, seller said it's beige with gold hardware and it's leather and horse hair. What do you think of its condition? I see the toile has worn down on the back near the handle, is this repairable? Will cleaning the toile, improve the fading part in the front? Are the cracks/tears on the belt wrapping part severe? It looked like it's from use or too dry? I hope I make sense. Does this bag have too many issues? Thanks!

Hi there,
It’s a very cool vintage bag the bag has no toile on it ; what you are referring to as toile is crinoline which is horse hair textile. A doensit to crinoline is it will not be repairable by Hermes in future and if it’s stained generally those stains are permanent.
The cracks on the closure straps called
“sangles “if only on one side might not be terribly worrisome if the other side of the sangles is sturdy...
the light colored leather has stains and colorloss it’s hard to make a lighter colored bag with dark stains look good. Stains usually migrate up through white or light colored restoration finishes.
If you are looking for a cool vintage looking Kelly and some flaws associated with a vintage bag isn’t going to hamper your style then Go for it. However if your hopes are you can make this bag look super cleaned up and like new I’d say pass.
I hope this helped?
All the best doc

 

[lovely2008]

Hi there,
It’s a very cool vintage bag the bag has no toile on it ; what you are referring to as toile is crinoline which is horse hair textile. A doensit to crinoline is it will not be repairable by Hermes in future and if it’s stained generally those stains are permanent.
The cracks on the closure straps called
“sangles “if only on one side might not be terribly worrisome if the other side of the sangles is sturdy...
the light colored leather has stains and colorloss it’s hard to make a lighter colored bag with dark stains look good. Stains usually migrate up through white or light colored restoration finishes.
If you are looking for a cool vintage looking Kelly and some flaws associated with a vintage bag isn’t going to hamper your style then Go for it. However if your hopes are you can make this bag look super cleaned up and like new I’d say pass.
I hope this helped?
All the best doc

Thank you again for your help!

 

[MmeRouge]

It does not mater if the seller won’t cancel a transaction you ask eBay to step in
She did not disclose the bag was altered in the listing and then you found out afterward in the messages
eBay will stand by you .
All the best doc

Dear Doc - thank you so much for your advice. The seller has agreed to refund my money. I cannot tell you how grateful I am! The bag - which I have not used at all - looks worse by the day with cracks/cracks “opening up.” I suspect it’s because it’s drying from whatever was used on it. In any case, a BIG thank you!

 

[MmeRouge]

Hi again - another question, please Doc! Is older crinoline able to be stabilized or repaired? I see these areas on many older crinoline bags that seem to look like the fabric is pulling away from the trim - or maybe it has stretched and the weft threads (the horsehair) needs to be redistributed along the warp? Does Hermes crinoline use a cotton base (warp)?

These photos are from a seller to show me these areas on a bag I’m interested in, but I’m not sure what the issue is in the last photo. Maybe a stitching repair?
Thank you for taking a look!

 

[docride]

Hi again - another question, please Doc! Is older crinoline able to be stabilized or repaired? I see these areas on many older crinoline bags that seem to look like the fabric is pulling away from the trim - or maybe it has stretched and the weft threads (the horsehair) needs to be redistributed along the warp? Does Hermes crinoline use a cotton base (warp)?

These photos are from a seller to show me these areas on a bag I’m interested in, but I’m not sure what the issue is in the last photo. Maybe a stitching repair?
Thank you for taking a look!

View attachment 4228156View attachment 4228157View attachment 4228158

Hi there
You know I don’t know if Hermes uses cotton as the warp I thought it was linen warp and horsehair weft but I can be wrong for sure and will be again [emoji23]
As to Hermes working on or repairing crinoline
To my understanding they won’t work on crinoline or do crinoline repairs. But I imagine someone in Paris could get a different answer.. I’d go with NO and let it ride
Ok so, done interesting things about crinoline
Apparently moths like to eat it !
As to stabilizing I’ve seen folks use surgical suture glue or crazy glue on it... not that I’m recommending this but if you have zero other options and otherwise the bag would be beyond repair or usefulness then what the heck right?
Umm [emoji52] let’s see... did I answer all your questions?
Oh those areas of concern look cosmetic mostly the loss of some horsehair giving some bare patch’s but it’s not a biggie if the warp is strongly bound. Is it ?
As to being super picky about crinoline I wouldn’t be it is usually very vintage and will have flaws that kind of comes with the crinoline territory. If you don’t mind some prickly parts and you dig the super cool lightweight and unusual Crinoline I say go for it! Hermes crinoline bags rare gems and undervalued in my opinion; you can often find them at good prices. So according to your own sensibilities do the benefits out weight the drawbacks ? [emoji848]
That’s the head scratcher question[emoji6]
All the best doc

 

[docride]

Dear Doc - thank you so much for your advice. The seller has agreed to refund my money. I cannot tell you how grateful I am! The bag - which I have not used at all - looks worse by the day with cracks/cracks “opening up.” I suspect it’s because it’s drying from whatever was used on it. In any case, a BIG thank you!

I hope you went through the eBay disputes format to cover yourself ? That’s important
Hugs [emoji847] doc

 

[docride]

Thank you again for your help!

[emoji847]

 

[MmeRouge]

Hi there
You know I don’t know if Hermes uses cotton as the warp I thought it was linen warp and horsehair weft but I can be wrong for sure and will be again [emoji23]
As to Hermes working on or repairing crinoline
To my understanding they won’t work on crinoline or do crinoline repairs. But I imagine someone in Paris could get a different answer.. I’d go with NO and let it ride
Ok so, done interesting things about crinoline
Apparently moths like to eat it !
As to stabilizing I’ve seen folks use surgical suture glue or crazy glue on it... not that I’m recommending this but if you have zero other options and otherwise the bag would be beyond repair or usefulness then what the heck right?
Umm [emoji52] let’s see... did I answer all your questions?
Oh those areas of concern look cosmetic mostly the loss of some horsehair giving some bare patch’s but it’s not a biggie if the warp is strongly bound. Is it ?
As to being super picky about crinoline I wouldn’t be it is usually very vintage and will have flaws that kind of comes with the crinoline territory. If you don’t mind some prickly parts and you dig the super cool lightweight and unusual Crinoline I say go for it! Hermes crinoline bags rare gems and undervalued in my opinion; you can often find them at good prices. So according to your own sensibilities do the benefits out weight the drawbacks ? [emoji848]
That’s the head scratcher question[emoji6]
All the best doc

Thank you Doc. I had just now read your response, went directly to purchase the bag - and it sold just as I hit to purchase - despite being available for months. [emoji20] I’m both sad - and mad at myself. Oh well - live and learn.

Is crinoline still made by H? I’ve purchased it in the past for upholstery. Crazy expensive!

 

[docride]

Thank you Doc. I had just now read your response, went directly to purchase the bag - and it sold just as I hit to purchase - despite being available for months. [emoji20] I’m both sad - and mad at myself. Oh well - live and learn.

Is crinoline still made by H? I’ve purchased it in the past for upholstery. Crazy expensive!

Hi again
I don’t have not seen recently produced crinoline bags from Hermes ... who knows maybe they’ll bring them back?
Anyhow
There are still some vintage Hermes crinoline to be hunted and found! Happy hunting! And good luck [emoji256]
Doc

 

[PinkPeonies]

Hi again docride,

If I could possibly have your opinion regarding these handles. I have a bit of a suspicion that the handles may have been painted due to the strange way they are cracking. I’ve dealt with painted leather bags as I’ve done a few myself and this just looks reminiscent to it.

Or could it possibly be just the characteristics of this type of leather? From what I can tell it’s a 1996 Vache Natural.

Would conditioning the bag help?

Thanks for taking a look [emoji4]

 

[docride]

Hi again docride,

If I could possibly have your opinion regarding these handles. I have a bit of a suspicion that the handles may have been painted due to the strange way they are cracking. I’ve dealt with painted leather bags as I’ve done a few myself and this just looks reminiscent to it.

Or could it possibly be just the characteristics of this type of leather? From what I can tell it’s a 1996 Vache Natural.

Would conditioning the bag help?

Thanks for taking a look [emoji4]

View attachment 4228718
View attachment 4228719
View attachment 4228720
View attachment 4228721

Hi there,
Great questions!
Hermes Vache natural can have some times have semifinish on it which is like a light colored finish
Additionally sometimes we find vintage vache natural which has been after market treated with clear acrylic type coatings or even leather paint in attempts to prevent stains or cover flaws

In this case it looks like from the photos provided that it’s free from aftermarket leather paints. To my eyes this leather has an original semi-finish. Additionally the bag may possibly have some aftermarket clear spray on it but I can not tell that from the photos.

Conditioner? Sure give it a go.
Always test a small hidden area first to make sure you’ll be happy with the results before treating while panels.
Good luck [emoji256]
Doc

 

[PinkPeonies]

Thanks doc, that’s really good to know that it’s not a paint over job.

I have tried conditioner and no discolouring has happened. I’m trying to get my hands on Fiebings Aussie, one of the products you mentioned for VN.

I have done a water droplet test on the bottom of the bag and that doesn’t seem to penetrate or make a mark so a clear coating is making a lot of sense now.

 

[docride]

Thanks doc, that’s really good to know that it’s not a paint over job.

I have tried conditioner and no discolouring has happened. I’m trying to get my hands on Fiebings Aussie, one of the products you mentioned for VN.

I have done a water droplet test on the bottom of the bag and that doesn’t seem to penetrate or make a mark so a clear coating is making a lot of sense now.

If that’s the case, and you have cracking. You might not be able to penetrate the coating
I would try to get the coating off so conditioner can penetrate
I would not go with any heavy waxy products at this time at all so skip those types.
You want thinner liquid or lotion type conditioners at this time.
Doc

 

[PinkPeonies]

If that’s the case, and you have cracking. You might not be able to penetrate the coating
I would try to get the coating off so conditioner can penetrate
I would not go with any heavy waxy products at this time at all so skip those types.
You want thinner liquid or lotion type conditioners at this time.
Doc

Hi doc,

I had my bag authenticated and was initially described to be VN and was told that there was definite coating or colour as the sheen showing in photos is not consistent to VN, but due to the extra photos in authenticating it’s now more consistent to Veau Chamonix.