DISCUSS the Hermes AT Thread
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I haven't said anything about my personal experience on the AT thread because it was a very painful few days for me.
I came here with the best intentions. I was selling my two year old baby Birkin (bought at Hermes by me), because I'd never even fully taken her out of her box in all the time I'd owned her. Now, that's just wrong! :shame: One of the people asking questions about my purse asked if I was a member here. I told her "No" but my interest was piqued, and I went looking for a link.
You can imagine how shocked I was to see my purse being discussed on the AT thread. And, not just discussed, but rather being trashed as fake. What did I do? I stuck around, defended by purse vigorously, and once I had feedback from the buyer, I invited everyone to take a look.
Let me say how happy I am now that everything happened as it did. Had there not been lively debate on the thread, I might have looked around the Forum, and said, "Interesting site," and moved on.
I felt personally attacked at the time. But, rather than leaving the site, I stuck around and read, read, read. I went way back into old, old posts and started to see how valuable this Forum is to anyone devoted to Hermes.
I came to realize that things said in the moment, usually aren't meant to be personal attacks (though, it can feel like it at the time). I've made some lovely friends here, and I wouldn't trade them for anything.
I guess my point is that anyone who's really interested in knowing whether the purse in question is authentic or not, won't let a few words deter them. Can things be said in a kinder gentler way, you bet! But, let's face it, how many ways in one day can you kindly and gently say, "I'm sorry, but I can't recommend this purse." When, what you're thinking is, "Good Lord, another fake piece of s***."
I for one will take the advice given here, and when I see a post that is beyond the pale on the rudeness scale, I'll report it. In my opinion, that's all we need.
CG
I came here with the best intentions. I was selling my two year old baby Birkin (bought at Hermes by me), because I'd never even fully taken her out of her box in all the time I'd owned her. Now, that's just wrong! :shame: One of the people asking questions about my purse asked if I was a member here. I told her "No" but my interest was piqued, and I went looking for a link.
You can imagine how shocked I was to see my purse being discussed on the AT thread. And, not just discussed, but rather being trashed as fake. What did I do? I stuck around, defended by purse vigorously, and once I had feedback from the buyer, I invited everyone to take a look.
Let me say how happy I am now that everything happened as it did. Had there not been lively debate on the thread, I might have looked around the Forum, and said, "Interesting site," and moved on.
I felt personally attacked at the time. But, rather than leaving the site, I stuck around and read, read, read. I went way back into old, old posts and started to see how valuable this Forum is to anyone devoted to Hermes.
I came to realize that things said in the moment, usually aren't meant to be personal attacks (though, it can feel like it at the time). I've made some lovely friends here, and I wouldn't trade them for anything.
I guess my point is that anyone who's really interested in knowing whether the purse in question is authentic or not, won't let a few words deter them. Can things be said in a kinder gentler way, you bet! But, let's face it, how many ways in one day can you kindly and gently say, "I'm sorry, but I can't recommend this purse." When, what you're thinking is, "Good Lord, another fake piece of s***."
I for one will take the advice given here, and when I see a post that is beyond the pale on the rudeness scale, I'll report it. In my opinion, that's all we need.
CG
It is a conscious decision not to address this thread. Also appreciation for the authenticators is not a late breaking phenomenon just on this discussion thread, but noted throughout the AT thread, been going on as long as I have been a member here and will continue. What has been discussed here that is really that offensive? Better to bottle it up and move on? That's just another form of insincere nicety.
I'm not really sure what can be done or said now to the regulars that can smooth things over but also what is the harm of honesty? None of this came out of a parallel universe and may have well been simmering for a long time. There's definitely a sense of "us vs. them" theme which should not be the spirit of this discussion...but it is.
Merika, its a very good idea to have the mods discuss privately with the regulars how to move beyond because you're right, they are not going to discuss it here in the open, prob thinking it would lead to another barrage.
I really think there is a lack of true communication going on right now.
There is absolutely no way that I or others could understand the entire AT thread in full without being a part of all 590+ pages. NO WAY. I can look at 10-15 pages, but that will still not give me the full picture. I will not know what happened previously to the authenticators, to those asking for authentications, etc. So I will not claim that at all.
But I do think that there is no possible way to move forward without really trying to hear people out and trying to not be defensive, but understand what every side is saying. If everyone is already defensive and not willing to understand others, then we will get no where fast.
I like to open up discussions. If some members are not posting their thoughts or feelings, we can not do anything about that. But some of those members and I have spoken via PM and I am having a better time understanding what is going on.
Everyone here is human. We will all misunderstand, judge, jump to conclusions, be short-tempered, be helpful, gracious, giving, humorous, etc at times. That is what makes us all individuals. There has definitely been some misunderstandings in my opinion.
The past page or so here has seemed geared toward specific members, and I was not thinking this thread would go there. The personal issues can be handled privately, and I am actively looking into that. But we all need to be open minded about solving problems, not to continue pointing fingers.
I want this thread to remain open, but it is going circular now rather than forward... any chance we can get it forward again?
There is absolutely no way that I or others could understand the entire AT thread in full without being a part of all 590+ pages. NO WAY. I can look at 10-15 pages, but that will still not give me the full picture. I will not know what happened previously to the authenticators, to those asking for authentications, etc. So I will not claim that at all.
But I do think that there is no possible way to move forward without really trying to hear people out and trying to not be defensive, but understand what every side is saying. If everyone is already defensive and not willing to understand others, then we will get no where fast.
I like to open up discussions. If some members are not posting their thoughts or feelings, we can not do anything about that. But some of those members and I have spoken via PM and I am having a better time understanding what is going on.
Everyone here is human. We will all misunderstand, judge, jump to conclusions, be short-tempered, be helpful, gracious, giving, humorous, etc at times. That is what makes us all individuals. There has definitely been some misunderstandings in my opinion.
The past page or so here has seemed geared toward specific members, and I was not thinking this thread would go there. The personal issues can be handled privately, and I am actively looking into that. But we all need to be open minded about solving problems, not to continue pointing fingers.
I want this thread to remain open, but it is going circular now rather than forward... any chance we can get it forward again?
Time for a healthy injection of "testosteronic" reason. 
From what I gather out of all this is that feelings are hurt, the regular authenticators feel unappreciated and are on a strike, others are scared to step into the AT domain in fear of not being accepted / heard or not really belonging into the tightly knit club.
First of all, due to technical reasons beyond the scope of this thread, the current AT thread will need to be retired and renewed in the next few days anyway.
This being said, it is time for everyone to hug, kiss, make up and start anew. I want there to be no misunderstanding about everyone's appreciation the wonderful contributions of every single authenticator there is on TPF, the regulars especially. If it was not for your selfless contributions, TPF wouldn't be what it is - the premier place online for everything handbag. As a matter of fact, if it was not for personal commitment, contribution, interaction and spreading of knowledge, the Internet as a whole would not be what it is. There would be no Youtube, no Wikipedia, no other resource sites loaded with topical information would exist. So yes, it is you all who fuel the social internet. And we love you for it. And those being helped love you for it. I do not think there is anyone really objecting that.
Having worked with online communities for nearly a decade now, I do realize that there is special relationships that form, unique cliques that spring up through common interests and passions, and often times these cliques/groups develop their own lingo, their own insider jokes, their own behaviors that will seem as offensive or rude to outsiders. The whole concept of misinterpretation of tone of the written word contributes to this greatly, but that's a whole different story. Fact is, if you get chummy and joke with a close friend publicly, you are bound to piss someone off who doesn't "get it". This being said, I do realize that there was some behavior from regular authenticators that was perceived as rude, bullying and inappropriate by outsiders, even though it may have all stemmed from an insider circle-type chatter that was simply misunderstood? I do not know, I don't know much about Hermes.
I do not expect everyone to be on their A-game at all times, attitudes do happen and often times, they are not necessary. It was Megs' and my vision from the beginning that we were going to enforce a respectful community, one where regular and newbie would feel comfortable and welcomed alike. With a forum of this size, it is a challenge of massive proportions to keep everyone happy, often times this goal is just unattainable.
For the sake of trying to make everyone happy though, I would like to extend out to those in hiding, and I am all ears and would like to know what I can do to make your life easier. I do realize that the desire and will to help out is still there, otherwise the many individuals authenticating wouldn't have done it for this long.
Does the whole AT need a completely redone interface, a custom solution of sorts that would facilitate the process? Did it all outgrow its format?
Come out of hiding and tell me what I can do to facilitate this grand service.
From what I gather out of all this is that feelings are hurt, the regular authenticators feel unappreciated and are on a strike, others are scared to step into the AT domain in fear of not being accepted / heard or not really belonging into the tightly knit club.
First of all, due to technical reasons beyond the scope of this thread, the current AT thread will need to be retired and renewed in the next few days anyway.
This being said, it is time for everyone to hug, kiss, make up and start anew. I want there to be no misunderstanding about everyone's appreciation the wonderful contributions of every single authenticator there is on TPF, the regulars especially. If it was not for your selfless contributions, TPF wouldn't be what it is - the premier place online for everything handbag. As a matter of fact, if it was not for personal commitment, contribution, interaction and spreading of knowledge, the Internet as a whole would not be what it is. There would be no Youtube, no Wikipedia, no other resource sites loaded with topical information would exist. So yes, it is you all who fuel the social internet. And we love you for it. And those being helped love you for it. I do not think there is anyone really objecting that.
Having worked with online communities for nearly a decade now, I do realize that there is special relationships that form, unique cliques that spring up through common interests and passions, and often times these cliques/groups develop their own lingo, their own insider jokes, their own behaviors that will seem as offensive or rude to outsiders. The whole concept of misinterpretation of tone of the written word contributes to this greatly, but that's a whole different story. Fact is, if you get chummy and joke with a close friend publicly, you are bound to piss someone off who doesn't "get it". This being said, I do realize that there was some behavior from regular authenticators that was perceived as rude, bullying and inappropriate by outsiders, even though it may have all stemmed from an insider circle-type chatter that was simply misunderstood? I do not know, I don't know much about Hermes.
I do not expect everyone to be on their A-game at all times, attitudes do happen and often times, they are not necessary. It was Megs' and my vision from the beginning that we were going to enforce a respectful community, one where regular and newbie would feel comfortable and welcomed alike. With a forum of this size, it is a challenge of massive proportions to keep everyone happy, often times this goal is just unattainable.
For the sake of trying to make everyone happy though, I would like to extend out to those in hiding, and I am all ears and would like to know what I can do to make your life easier. I do realize that the desire and will to help out is still there, otherwise the many individuals authenticating wouldn't have done it for this long.
Does the whole AT need a completely redone interface, a custom solution of sorts that would facilitate the process? Did it all outgrow its format?
Come out of hiding and tell me what I can do to facilitate this grand service.
I think one thing that I have heard repeatedly from the authenticators is that they do not want to be PM'd from members asking for authentication services. I think this should be incorporated into any new set of guidelines, and any PMs received like this in violation of the rules should be forwarded to a mod to handle for them.
Also, the format- I think that any post not in the right format should either be ignored and we as mods, or if members want to, should simply post "please use the proper format to aid the authenticators. Thank you."
Also, the format- I think that any post not in the right format should either be ignored and we as mods, or if members want to, should simply post "please use the proper format to aid the authenticators. Thank you."
I also wanted to add that Meaghan and I both stand 100% behind Swanky and jag in how they intervened in the AT thread.
Look, the rules are simple. Respectful behavior is expected and will be enforced by our mods. If a comment is flagged as rude/inappropriate, the moderators will point this out, no matter who it comes from or who reported it.
Look, the rules are simple. Respectful behavior is expected and will be enforced by our mods. If a comment is flagged as rude/inappropriate, the moderators will point this out, no matter who it comes from or who reported it.
i think it's mostly the latter rather than the former. i presume there is little incentive for them to participate in this thread where the criticism continues - what's the point? a single unpleasant instance has lead to broad, sweeping and hurtful generalizations and characterizations. they're already hurt and discouraged, and to continue reading about how some people think they are rude, unwelcoming and unpleasant is just rubbing salt in their own paper cuts.
they're smart birds - i'm sure they GET that some think they were over-zealous in their response. as a some-time authenticator i want the community to GET that we are passionate about stamping out the fakes and, being human, from time to time we may over-react. given all that's involved in authenticating, i'd like to be cut a little slack in return when it does, inevitably, happen. all that was needed in that exchange was a simple "ladies, please play nicely on the chance that posters really are innocent and not scammers."
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all that was needed in that exchange was a simple "ladies, please play nicely on the chance that posters really are innocent and not scammers."[/quote]
There are no winners here, I think the mods Vlad Megs have made it quite clear now
I for one am very dissapointed, entrenched positions just cause wars not peace,
It just takes one Desmond tutu sadly there is only one Desmond Tutu but ohh how we can learn from him if we choose too. thats the question
Megs and Vlad - you guys rock. Thank you for not only having this forum but also for being so open with it- open to suggestions, open to personalities, open to everything. Your job maintaining this and making it a wonderful (and FREE) place to spend (way too much of, sometimes) our time is invaluable and a true gift to us all. I personally think it's amazing that you guys are taking so much time trying to make this work in a way that's best for everyone and are really hearing everyone out.
Personally, having read this thread, I do think both sides have been heard and it's time now for implementation. And even if it seems more on one side- I think that's a side that normally is not heard: people who are usually too afraid or intimidated to speak up. And I think it's great for them to be able to be fully expressed. I truly hope those who are taking a break from authenticating come back. The reality is everyone needs a break every once in a while. From our jobs, our families (oy, families), our friends, even the forum. Hopefully that's all that is and they will come back renewed, refreshed and with a brand new, easier to use AT thread.
Anyway that's just my 2 cents. Hope I don't get called a facist for my opinion.
Personally, having read this thread, I do think both sides have been heard and it's time now for implementation. And even if it seems more on one side- I think that's a side that normally is not heard: people who are usually too afraid or intimidated to speak up. And I think it's great for them to be able to be fully expressed. I truly hope those who are taking a break from authenticating come back. The reality is everyone needs a break every once in a while. From our jobs, our families (oy, families), our friends, even the forum. Hopefully that's all that is and they will come back renewed, refreshed and with a brand new, easier to use AT thread.
Anyway that's just my 2 cents. Hope I don't get called a facist for my opinion.
Hlfinn- our posts crossed. This was in response to ardneish and DQ's posts.
Well wait a minute.
I have had to post warnings in the AT thread, and elsewhere, that have said just that - please play nicely. And you know- the fact is, the warnings are often ignored. We can only do so much, and we try to do our best.
But I think everyone needs to understand that this was not merely one event, nor just one poster. Rather, I have received numerous PMs from members on both sides of this issue, and many who are afraid to participate and post their feelings or even participate in the AT thread because they have been made to feel unwelcome for whatever the reason. AND IN EVERY INSTANCE, I try to encourage everyone to be respectful, treat others the way they want to be treated. I say that pretty uniformly and when I have to say more, I do no matter how much I love the people i am warning. That is my job as a mod. It sucks sometimes, but I do it because even though I have to be the "bad guy" sometimes, it helps the overall community. So I do it.
As we have seen before in other subforums here, sometimes we all need to take a step back and get perspective so we can figure out how to make things better. I for one am taking that opportunity now so that I can make sure things run more smoothly here and everyone feels welcome to participate. I hope everyone joins in the positive discussion together!
Well wait a minute.
I have had to post warnings in the AT thread, and elsewhere, that have said just that - please play nicely. And you know- the fact is, the warnings are often ignored. We can only do so much, and we try to do our best.
But I think everyone needs to understand that this was not merely one event, nor just one poster. Rather, I have received numerous PMs from members on both sides of this issue, and many who are afraid to participate and post their feelings or even participate in the AT thread because they have been made to feel unwelcome for whatever the reason. AND IN EVERY INSTANCE, I try to encourage everyone to be respectful, treat others the way they want to be treated. I say that pretty uniformly and when I have to say more, I do no matter how much I love the people i am warning. That is my job as a mod. It sucks sometimes, but I do it because even though I have to be the "bad guy" sometimes, it helps the overall community. So I do it.
As we have seen before in other subforums here, sometimes we all need to take a step back and get perspective so we can figure out how to make things better. I for one am taking that opportunity now so that I can make sure things run more smoothly here and everyone feels welcome to participate. I hope everyone joins in the positive discussion together!
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