CITES, travel and exotics

[foodie007]

FYI: I called the San Francisco store and was told by the person in charge of intake of spa items that the company as a whole do not accept direct shipment.

I will be in Paris in a few weeks. I wanted to take the vintage croc bag to the flagship store. It's 30-50 years old and does not have a cite. Is this ill-advised? What are the chances of it being confiscated. Can I ask them for a new cite?

 

[papertiger]

I always have a CITES document in the pocket of all my exotics and I travel back and forth between NY and Paris and have never been asked for the CITES. I was told by some friends that CITES documents are no longer required if you are traveling with a bag that is for personal use and in your hand carry. I am not sure if this is 100% accurate but maybe can ask our own MrsJDS who used to work with US Customs and she can shed some light on this? I'd be interested to know if there has indeed been a change in CITES regulations (Misti maybe this part of the discussion can be moved to an existing CITES Thread? Thank you )

Rules have changed a little recently (I think from 5 Feb. 2015).

Hermes (and others) is now not allowed to sell any exotics/precious without a CITES. Pretty sure I used to have to ask.

Traveling with the bag from territory to another territory e.g. Asia to US, Europe to Australasia etc should be fine but I think I would always take the paperwork. The deal is when the bag is exported to another territory, sent without it's owner or changing hands, re-export CITES licences have to be sought every time.

Very confusing for pre-1975 vintage pieces. Pretty sure paperwork can be acquired for these as although some auction houses warn prospective buyers these are not allowed to leave the territory they're bought in but others say they can be obtained at a cost.

 

[Suncatcher]

My understanding from Claude (the beloved Madison artisan who recently retired) is they never change the original structure of the bag. So I can't offer much advice on the double rings.

As for your scratched hardware, as many of us have mentioned Madison and FSH have become a lot more selective about which bags to accept for repair because too many customers were sending bags to the spa which had barely noticeable "flaws" so they are now prioritizing those bags which require REAL repair work. But if your bag has a big obvious scratch, they would normally accept that at Madison. The lady who has recently accepted repair work at Madison is a lovely lady called Nia, was she the one you spoke to?



I always have a CITES document in the pocket of all my exotics and I travel back and forth between NY and Paris and have never been asked for the CITES. I was told by some friends that CITES documents are no longer required if you are traveling with a bag that is for personal use and in your hand carry. I am not sure if this is 100% accurate but maybe can ask our own MrsJDS who used to work with US Customs and she can shed some light on this? I'd be interested to know if there has indeed been a change in CITES regulations (Misti maybe this part of the discussion can be moved to an existing CITES Thread? Thank you )

Leah - in my recollection a CITIES certificate is only required for importation of goods. Having said that I would definitely - as you do Leah - carry a CITIES document just to avoid being hassled at customs by an uninformed officer. Just like I carry my original receipts in all my H bags to avoid being hassled at the border.

 

[Leah]

FYI: I called the San Francisco store and was told by the person in charge of intake of spa items that the company as a whole do not accept direct shipment.

I will be in Paris in a few weeks. I wanted to take the vintage croc bag to the flagship store. It's 30-50 years old and does not have a cite. Is this ill-advised? What are the chances of it being confiscated. Can I ask them for a new cite?

I always have a CITES document in the pocket of all my exotics and I travel back and forth between NY and Paris and have never been asked for the CITES. I was told by some friends that CITES documents are no longer required if you are traveling with a bag that is for personal use and in your hand carry. I am not sure if this is 100% accurate but maybe can ask our own MrsJDS who used to work with US Customs and she can shed some light on this? I'd be interested to know if there has indeed been a change in CITES regulations (Misti maybe this part of the discussion can be moved to an existing CITES Thread? Thank you )

Thank you MrsJDS and Papertiger for the info. Yes always better to travel with the documents but wish the CITES site was easier to navigate.
Papertiger, one of my sources of info on the (apparently updated) CITES regulations was an experienced exporter who regularly moves shipments around the world. Maybe I will write to CITES and ask specifically about traveling with, or shipping, vintage crocodile bags for personal use.

 

[jyyanks]

So glad I read this thread. I was eyeing a beautiful vintage croc piece from Europe but I've already had customs issues with another bag so I don't want to take a chance. I doubt the seller has the necessary paperwork and the last thing I need is to get it confiscated and for me to be put on a watch list!! It's too bad because I really would like to purchase this beauty.

 

[bababebi]

The CITES treaty came into force in 1973. I have always been under the impression that "vintage" pieces prior to that date don't need certificates.

But nevertheless I can't say that some customs person might not decide to hold the bag until it's clear about its age.

I wish this whole subject were clearer. Getting a licence to export an exotic which is missing it's CITES from any country is very complex.

 

[chicinthecity777]

The CITES treaty came into force in 1973. I have always been under the impression that "vintage" pieces prior to that date don't need certificates.

But nevertheless I can't say that some customs person might not decide to hold the bag until it's clear about its age.

I wish this whole subject were clearer. Getting a licence to export an exotic which is missing it's CITES from any country is very complex.

It's the same confusing situation here in the UK. I have had a major auction house refuse a vintage croc bag for consignment due to lack of original CITES but I couldn't find a way of getting one from the authority here. Oh well.

 

[Suzie]

I purchased a vintage croc Kelly about 5 years ago. I assumed that the seller had the CITES but he didn't, he was from Germany and had a farming certificate? Anyway to cut a long story short I said you have to get a CITES as I don't want the bag confiscated.

He sent the bag to Paris to verify and obtain the CITES, this took about 3 months. You can imagine my terror as I paid approx $15,000, anyhow they issued the CITES.

It did come in handy as I took the bag to the Sydney store to get some work done on the old girl (circa 1962) anyhow she was shipped off to Paris with the certificate and not a problem.

 

[Leah]

Suzie, speaking of Sydney interestingly the ONLY time I have ever been asked if I had a CITES was at the Sydney airport many years ago. The officer asked "You have the document for this?" (an H ostrich bag) I said "Yes I have the Cites somewhere here". And he said Ok just go ahead and barely glanced at the docu. I guess he realized we were on the same page, so to speak!

But I came prepared, fully aware of the fact that Sydney is perhaps one of the strictest airports when it comes to bringing in anything.

 

[bababebi]

That is interesting.

It was my understanding that Hermes uses South African Ostrich which is a CITES Appendix II Ostrich. Appendix II Ostrich is from non endangered countries. Only some countries have Ostrich that is endangered. They are the Appendix I countries:

http://www.cites.org/eng/gallery/species/bird/ostrich.html

And that therefore traveling with Ostrich is never a problem. The only time I have heard of a CITES being issued is when the bag in question was bought in Europe, perhaps because the EU has different rules?

I have seen a CITES for an Hermes Ostrich bag and it lists a type of Ostrich NOT endangered under CITES, South African Ostrich.

So beats me why there is a certificate for it.

I really wish all this were clearer.

 

[Leah]

Yes very confusing because CITES seems to change or update its rules on what is and what is not allowed (the rules are already complex and confusing for most people, to begin with.)

But all my Hermes exotics (croc, ostrich, lizard) were either from EU (mainly FSH) or a few South America H stores and all came with CITES.

Sample of one of my Hermes Ostrich Cites papers from FSH below.

 

[Suncatcher]

Suzie, speaking of Sydney interestingly the ONLY time I have ever been asked if I had a CITES was at the Sydney airport many years ago. The officer asked "You have the document for this?" (an H ostrich bag) I said "Yes I have the Cites somewhere here". And he said Ok just go ahead and barely glanced at the docu. I guess he realized we were on the same page, so to speak!

But I came prepared, fully aware of the fact that Sydney is perhaps one of the strictest airports when it comes to bringing in anything.

This illustrates why it is useful to carry the document around with you. 19 times out of 20 no one will pay attention to your bag, but once in a blue moon someone might - and just having it might save you a ton of hassle. Now, whether or not the officer himself or herself understands what constitutes CITES compliance is a different thing ...

That is interesting.

It was my understanding that Hermes uses South African Ostrich which is a CITES Appendix II Ostrich. Appendix II Ostrich is from non endangered countries. Only some countries have Ostrich that is endangered. They are the Appendix I countries:

http://www.cites.org/eng/gallery/species/bird/ostrich.html

And that therefore traveling with Ostrich is never a problem. The only time I have heard of a CITES being issued is when the bag in question was bought in Europe, perhaps because the EU has different rules?

I have seen a CITES for an Hermes Ostrich bag and it lists a type of Ostrich NOT endangered under CITES, South African Ostrich.

So beats me why there is a certificate for it.

I really wish all this were clearer.

I'm glad there is a certificate for it. Better than arguing with a border official that Hermes only uses non-endangered Ostrich! Perhaps the purpose of the certificate is to list what category of Ostrich has been used in the production of the bag, without which, one would not know whether any particular bag is in compliance or not.

 

[Pias]

Very interesting and complicated topic! I'm eyeing an Hermes Plume Ostrich from a reseller in Japan, but they refused to sell and ship to the US since they have no document for it. Maybe I should buy from H or resellers in the US.

 

[Leah]

Very interesting and complicated topic! I'm eyeing an Hermes Plume Ostrich from a reseller in Japan, but they refused to sell and ship to the US since they have no document for it. Maybe I should buy from H or resellers in the US.

Pias, I had a similar dilemma a few years ago. There was a very special and rare H exotic being offered by a store in the Ginza area in Tokyo. My friend who was there for a quick work trip saw it, took photos and immediately knew I would love it - which I did. Since my friend had left by the time I saw the photos, I contacted the store but they refused to ship it outside of Japan because of the complicated process involved with overseas shipping for exotics.

I had to eventually find a Tokyo-based friend who would buy it on my behalf and then keep it until we would see each other.
There are so many incredibly beautiful and super rare Hermes exotic bags to be found amongst some of the Tokyo resellers, but the shipping complexities for exotics make it difficult to purchase from overseas and the Japanese are (rightfully so) stickler for rules.

 

[Suncatcher]

Pias, I had a similar dilemma a few years ago. There was a very special and rare H exotic being offered by a store in the Ginza area in Tokyo. My friend who was there for a quick work trip saw it, took photos and immediately knew I would love it - which I did. Since my friend had left by the time I saw the photos, I contacted the store but they refused to ship it outside of Japan because of the complicated process involved with overseas shipping for exotics.

I had to eventually find a Tokyo-based friend who would buy it on my behalf and then keep it until we would see each other.
There are so many incredibly beautiful and super rare Hermes exotic bags to be found amongst some of the Tokyo resellers, but the shipping complexities for exotics make it difficult to purchase from overseas and the Japanese are (rightfully so) stickler for rules.

Dearest Leah - I am wondering how did you bring it back stateside? Did you get a CITES certificate for it? Was the issue that the reseller would not ship the bag with the CITES certificate? I was recently eyeing an exotic plume that was being sold by a Japanese reseller but figured without trying first that it would be too hard to bring over.