Chanel’s Rise & STALL: Defects, Difficulties & Deflection (formerly the 19 tote saga thread)

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#617
ntntgo said:
They use price harmonization as the excuse. That’s their go-to explanation for every price increase, globally. Either they don’t understand the purpose of moving from value-based pricing to harmonized pricing or they think we don’t.
All of the luxury brands who have moved to price harmonization in the last 11 years have done it for two reasons. Either they are stabilizing their pricing to go e-comm or to sell.

Anyone willing to pick up a book and educate themselves or who has been watching the Chanel trends over the last 5 years, can easily see that it’s likely the latter. However, Hermes dipping their toe into the e-comm arena with bags, some of which are quota bags, makes me think we might see Chanel start doing the same. Especially with the ”VIP boutiques” being announced. Notice it’s in quotes. They already exist within the current boutiques.

Regarding the EU price increase, it has no effect on residents of the EU countries as they don’t buy Chanel anyway, only expats. I noticed that the prices weren’t raised in Switzerland or Norway or Denmark or pick any country that’s part of the EU but doesn’t use the Euro. All of those countries’ currency are at the same rate against the USD. I‘ve also heard nothing about a price increase in the UK. That’s will give us way more insight to what their real endgame is. If any of our UK members here know differently, please chime in.
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Just a note, Switzerland or Norway are not part of the EU. The Eurozone (countries that use the Euro are different). Denmark is in the EU but didn't switch to the Euro.

It's true that fluctuations in currency will affect prices. In addition, Chanel were one of the first lux companies that equalised prices a few years ago so that prices in many countries in Asia and and other territories that were prohibitively high, are now effectively subsidised by prices in Europe (and perhaps elsewhere).

Here is a PB article by Amanda Mull from 2015 (last updated last year): https://www.purseblog.com/news/chan...ellers-and-prepare-for-eventual-online-sales/
 
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#618
bagsaremyjam said:
Unless you’re a leather expert who works with, or has worked with leather, it’s silly to assume to know what you’re talking about. I’m not saying Chanel doesn’t have quality issues or can have quality issues, but to start making statements or assuming the bags are made of fake leather is ridiculous imo.

I watched a YouTube video of someone complaining about their 22 bag’s leather coming apart, and there was one comment stating the leather was bonded and a zillion pieces were put together, another stating the leather is spray painted, etc. Then someone commented who works with leathers every day confirm the bag is indeed leather, but the leather has been mixed with a type of color, which appears to be causing this (ie, the metallic in the bag, or something mixed in the color). This was my thought exactly - the bags with metallic or bright colors did not mix well, something happened. The metallic leathers are extremely sensitive to water, to anything really, and this is when they’re in a structured shape like a mini, let alone on a hobo bag. It seems Chanel tried something out with these new unstructured bags that has clearly backfired.

I’ve personally noticed improved quality on all the bags I’ve purchased the past couple years. I’ve also noticed it on the bags I’ve handled in store.

And to those referring to a plasticky feel, that’s the caviar that they’re creating. And the “plasticky” feel someone mentioned on a Chanel 19 is the lamb coating to make it more durable. Side note, my 19 bag is made from goatskin and I can promise you it’s full leather. And that all my bags are.

The caviar reserved for classics is now not put on seasonal bags. Back in the day seasonal caviar used to resemble more of the classic caviar grains, now they have made a zillion different caviar grains for seasonal bags to differentiate from the classics. Most caviar is almost always going to have some sort of plastic feel because you can see the caviar is glazed and coated to create hardened pebbles for durability. It’s why those bags last so long. Treated leather will always last longer.

Lamb is so delicate it’s absurd. Clearly some more than others, but you can see the differences of lamb depending how much treatment/coating is put on it. I don’t know what kind of lamb they used for vintage bags, but they were certainly more durable. But they also feel nothing like Chanel lamb bags now. Vintage lamb bags are nothing close to being super buttery and luxe, which they are now. But you pay a price for that buttery, luxe lamb. It doesn’t wear well. At all.

So many Chanel lamb purses have a raw like coating, meaning they appear to have very little alterations to the leather, which means they have very little durability. This gives a more luxe feel and look, but it’s also the reason for the bags being extremely delicate. This is why I will never buy lamb bags for daily use unless I know it’s coated. And even then, it’s still the most sensitive leather.

Regarding the original OP’s photo. It’s looks like whatever you wore rubbed against the lamb leather, which appears to be extremely delicate. BUT. It’s lamb. If you wear anything rough with a lamb bag or don’t baby it, that will happen to most bags. Even in one hour.

Chanel lamb is notorious for being extremely delicate. I don’t know why Chanel would make a tote in untreated lamb. And to be honest, I feel like Chanel needs to (generally speaking) make their lamb more durable. But then you’ll have complaints about that.

And peoples ideas of “wear” are also so relative. I’ve seen so many people say their bag is in perfect condition after years of wear and I’m like, are you seeing what I’m seeing??? Because in my mind it couldn’t be farther from the truth. I bring up wear because it’s hard to trust when people say their lamb bags are much more durable than people say.

Have you owned lamb bags form Celine, LV, or other brands? No matter how much you baby the bag, it’s inevitable the leather will get marks, indentations, scratches.

Everyone has their own opinions on leather, but it seems people are so divided with Chanel. There are people who want the feeling and look of lamb but they complain when their bag wears so easily. They want durability but complain of the plastic feel of caviar or any coated bags, but that feeling is what keeps those bags looking amazing for so long.

Chanel caviar, especially in the classic bags, is the most durable leather next to Hermes epsom. Have you ever bought a bag from another designer and notice the calfskin looks and feels great, but over time (no matter how careful you are) the leather will start to wear and soften dramatically. It just will not stand the test of time. But caviar leather often will.

I’m not saying Chanel doesn’t have quality issues, but oftentimes I feel like people buy bags in certain leathers and have unrealistic expectations. I’m on the extreme with OCD so this is why I will always choose caviar, goat or calfskin first, and will almost never buy lamb.
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But shouldn't the leather be dyed through? It should not peel off to show a totally different color.
 
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#620
bagsaremyjam said:
I said almost all their lambskin is delicate, with the exception of the 19. I don’t recall if I disclosed that, but I believe I did. I know that’s the only Chanel lamb that isn’t. I said almost all lambskin is extremely delicate, that’s a fact.

I’m not saying Chanel doesn’t have issues, they absolutely do!!! But to make a blanket statement that their bags are all made from bonded leather, etc, I believe is false. There’s a difference here. I have purchased SO many Chanel bags. And a lot of people have owned Chanel for a long time with no issues on their bags.

I’m not going to keep going back and forth with you. Stop buying Chanel then. You’re complaining about your one lamb bag being treated so much that you’re questioning the material. To me the original bag you posted doesn’t look anything like the 22 bag issues, it looks like the rubbing of your clothes ripped the lamb off.

I only came on here originally to say something about all the fake leather statements. I never said you were wrong. But I’ve literally never had your experience with chemical smelling products either.

I don’t think you want to see the other side to your argument. Just stop buying the bags and be done with it.
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Lamb does not "rub off" from one's clothes to reveal a different material underneath. That lamb looks thinner than a piece of paper!
 
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#621
papertiger said:
Just a note, Switzerland or Norway are not part of the EU. The Eurozone (countries that use the Euro are different). Denmark is in the EU but didn't switch to the Euro.

It's true that fluctuations in currency will affect prices. In addition, Chanel were one of the first lux companies that equalised prices a few years ago so that prices in many countries in Asia and and other territories that were prohibitively high, are now effectively subsidised by prices in Europe (and perhaps elsewhere).

Here is a PB article by Amanda Mull from 2015 (last updated last year): https://www.purseblog.com/news/chan...ellers-and-prepare-for-eventual-online-sales/
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You are correct. I should have said European countries. TBH, I didn’t even know that so many European countries didn’t use the Euro until I started working in Europe.

In travel, we always just exchanged money through our global banker so, I never paid much attention to the currency in non EU countries.

I’m going to read that article. I’ve been saying for years that Chanel Ltd was either going toward selective e-comm or sell.

As I have the big 3 companies that have acquired the fashion houses as my clients, I’ve been involved in meetings regarding where the future of Chanel appears to be going. The Wertheimers use the high profits from Chanel Ltd to invest/purchase/move money into a highly focused portfolio of health, sustainability & biotech. At some point, they’re going to ditch Chanel completely unless they can get rid of most b & m boutiques to move toward e-comm.

Thank you for correcting me in my description of EU vs European countries.

Edited for grammar & clearer explanation
 
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#623
papertiger said:
I think we discovered (thread on this forum) there was a bag in the 1970s that had the CC catch already (from a vintage photo), it was just launched big-time in 1983. Prob KL found the model in the archives. Looking at the timeline it sound the most likely, project concept, development and realisation of accessories is quite a long process and KL only joined 1982.
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There was a few prototype CFs with the CC turnlock made as gifts for a select few highly photographed women in the mid-1970s but it wasn’t available as anything other than a gift until 1983.

I’d be very very surprised if anyone on this forum owns an authentic one of the 1970s CC turnlock bags.
 
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#624
DamierEbene said:
@ntntgo no offense taken :smile:

I am curious about Chanel finally taking the e-comm route. Even if it would just be a small selection…
…how/ in what time frame could that become reality? And how would that affect the quality and further price increases?

Thanks for any insight !
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I’m not sure of a date but Hermes started it last year. Some of us received access codes but now anyone can go on the Hermes site and buy them. It’s like concert tickets though. You never know when they’re putting the bags up and the go fast.

I suspect that Chanel will copy the Hermes model.
 
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#625
ntntgo said:
There was a few prototype CFs with the CC turnlock made as gifts for a select few highly photographed women in the mid-1970s but it wasn’t available as anything other than a gift until 1983.

I’d be very very surprised if anyone on this forum owns an authentic one of the 1970s CC turnlock bags.
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Thanks you for the info!

No, we found a picture.

As I said earlier, I have an inherited early-'70s bag, like a Mademoiselle but with woven chain straps. Archives of these Houses are constantly used as inspiration. The finesse and workmanship on that bag is beyond question superior not only to bags now but bags my mother bought in the '90s and mine from the '00s.
 
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#626
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#627
ntntgo said:
I’ve been saying for years that Chanel Ltd was either going toward selective e-comm or sell.
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DamierEbene said:
I am curious about Chanel finally taking the e-comm route.
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Selective e-commerce, yes - for fragrances, make up, etc. Not for ready-to-wear or bags.

Bruno Pavlovsky stubbornly explains in this video why they won't expand e-commerce, at the 12:20 mark.

Just like Hermès, Chanel understands and knows scarcity marketing. If they do go fully e-comm, it will be to their detriment.

Incidentally, despite expanding their e-comm offering, Hermès sales are not near Chanels, whose figures came close to LVMH last year.

Let's be honest here: the allure of CHANEL is keeping its access very INaccessible. Scarcity marketing cultivates desire. It's a proven psychological phenomenon and that's why Hermès' game works. People want it more when they cannot get it easily. Exclusivity sells.
 
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#629
JamaisAssez said:
Selective e-commerce, yes - for fragrances, make up, etc. Not for ready-to-wear or bags.

Bruno Pavlovsky stubbornly explains in this video why they won't expand e-commerce, at the 12:20 mark.

Just like Hermès, Chanel understands and knows scarcity marketing. If they do go fully e-comm, it will be to their detriment.

Incidentally, despite expanding their e-comm offering, Hermès sales are not near Chanels, whose figures came close to LVMH last year.

Let's be honest here: the allure of CHANEL is keeping its access very INaccessible. Scarcity marketing cultivates desire. It's a proven psychological phenomenon and that's why Hermès' game works. People want it more when they cannot get it easily. Exclusivity sells.
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I watched the video. Thank you!

Insightful…. and so calculating as he states that Chanel wants customers to have the experience, feel, touch everything etc…
He also says that you walk into Chanel knowing what you want, leaving with something else.
He calls it a dream and a surprise when you go into boutiques, haha…sure ..
I panic bought in the past out of fomo and as you say: Chanel’s scarcity marketing. I am totally guilty of falling for this. Completely…:oh: it’s no surprise/ dream. It’s buy now or never.

BUT
absolutely correct: if Chanel raised production by 300% or more and everyone could buy anything online and in store, there were sales every six months including bags that didn’t sell… well we all know we wouldn’t buy Chanel like we did/do/will do.
 
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