AUTHENTICATE this COACH

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hi, experts! i'm a kind of shy to ask this since i'm not going to purchase it. i'm just wondering if S plant code is for united states please? i believe it is a china plant code. many, many thanks in advance.

Item: VINTAGE COACH USA XTRA~LRG BRITISH TAN LEATHER BUCKET DUFFLE BAG PURSE HOBO W@W!
Listing number: 300960599941
Seller: abwitcht
Link: http://www.ebay.ph/itm/300960599941...X:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649#ht_1425wt_1139

Good catch! I'm glad you're not planning on buying it because there are several things that raise big red flags.

The metal ring on the top zipper pull is wrong, the inside pocket zipper looks too short, the seam around the base is wrong, the serial number is off-center, and not only is the font of the serial number wrong but the S plant came on line in China, not the US, in late 1995 for business and travel items, not handbags.
I'd like to add a comment. IMO, you needn't feel bad about posting a listing that you have no intention of buying. Posting a fake, making it known that its fake, and demonstrating to others that it is fake brings the listing to the attention of some who find and report fakes. In those cases and in others, doing so gets the listing removed, thereby protecting another buyer from getting ripped off.
Item: Coach Coin Purse Key Fob Gray Satiny Leather Gathered Front
Listing number:130980899633
Seller: alicarolaynne
Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coach-coin-...pt=US_Women_s_Accessories&hash=item1e7f11eb31
Comments: Could you please authenticate? Thank you!
Authentic
 
i think that you - or the seller mentioned, as the case may be, but i'll use "you" just to keep things simple - need to take the time to have coach items authenticated before listing, and this problem won't occur. The problems mentioned in those listings have been mentioned in several accepted analyses of invalid/fake serial numbers and those are available to sellers and buyers both here and at ebay.

Sellers are always welcome to ask for authenticity opinions here freely as long as they follow forum rules and don't advertise or link to their listings or stores, and by doing so can have the benefit of several opinions to help them decide whether or not a coach item is genuine. Ebay does require that all items be authentic, and if a seller doesn't take steps to be sure it is by getting other opinions, or doesn't take steps to find what details point to something being fake, they're not making a strong enough effort to be sure they're selling genuine coach products, and they run the risk of having counterfeit items removed by ebay.

A simple understanding of coach factory codes would have shown the seller mentioned that several of those bags weren't even close to having a valid month code. I can understand someone not knowing the plant location codes but to not know that coach month codes only go to "m", and on very rare occasions, "n", is hard to justify. That's basic coach knowledge for anyone who makes a living or fills a need by selling or buying coach products. And that's not the kind of mistake a plant would keep making over and over to where dozens if not hundreds of bags would be leaving plants with codes like "p" or "s" that have never appeared in genuine coaches and most of which show up in bags with other problems as well.

There's no reason a seller can't take advantage of the research that members here have already done, and there's a ton of other useful information here as well. Or they can post their own photos at ebay's shoes & purses forum and still follow that forum's labyrinthine rules by declaring in the post requesting authenticity opinions that they own the bag and the photos. Or they can use a professional authentication service. Self-authenticating your own listings is only for sellers who are experienced at spotting fakes and know where to find the information that helps them do it.

As for not recommending sellers - when a seller lists 3 or 4 counterfeits in the space of a month, something's wrong. and potential buyers need to be aware that there's a risk factor buying from that seller that some of us find unacceptible, especially when it doesn't have to happen. Judging a seller "by their record" is all well and good, but when listing and selling fakes becomes part of that record, what then? Is everyone supposed to just ignore it?

Understand something clearly - no one is here to hurt anyone's reputation. Everyone who authenticates here has gotten stuck with a fake at one time or another, and we don't want to see it happen to other people. The people in these forums who have taken the time to try and learn the subject of coach fakes backwards and forwards do so for one simple reason - because we don't want to see anyone get ripped off, either deliberately or accidently. Even if a seller didn't realize a bag was fake, what about the buyer? Time and money are lost since much of the time they won't be reimbursed for shipping charges if the fake has to be returned, and loss of trust in ebay sellers in general and sometimes in the whole ebay system. Nobody wins and everybody loses.

amen!!
 
"when looking at the creed is it just the spacing and positioning of the letters on the creed that are dead giveaways for authenticity?"
Only when compared to other creeds from the same plant, month and year and that use the same creed statement. In other words, you have to compare apples and apples and they'd better be from the same tree. A creed from the early 90s will be different from one just a few years newer. A D-plant serial number from 1995 will look totally different and have different fonts, spacing, and formatting from a serial number from the same month and year but made in the G plant. Every detail has to be weighed individually, nothing in Coach products was ever the same for every item across the board. Plants had different stamps and different ways of setting them, even down to whether or not they used a dash after the "No" or the prefix.

"I thought that creeds were implemented by Coach at or after 1994 but I saw something with a (for example) K1C-9870, which means it was made in 1991 right? Would that mean it's fake?"
No, you need to re-read the information on creeds and serial numbers - single-number year codes were used from 1994 (*4*) to 2003 (*3*). As of 2004 the zero was added to the year code (*04*), and as of 2010 a 1 was used instead (*10**), So a prefix K1C- means October (K), 2001 (1), C Plant. Since Coach only started using year codes in 1994, the 0, 1, 2, and 3 codes were used for 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2003.

That also means that any serial numbers with year codes of 00, 01, 02 or 03 would very likely be fake BUT there have been cases of code digits being scrambled especially in non-US plants in the mid-90s, and also of some bags made in the Costa Rica plant in 2004 that only show "4" as the year code. Every "mistake" has to be looked at individually, and we have to try and figure out if it may have been a legitimate mistake, or if something else in the bag is pointing to it just being fake.

The most consistent thing about Coach is its inconsistency.


Thanks @Hyacinth, that was very informative but my favourite piece from you is this:
"The most consistent thing about Coach is its inconsistency" lol
 
Both bags look authentic. I've never seen a leather bag fade from black to brown. I would steer clear of a bag with that problem. I believe the slouchier bag came be reshaped with a bath and proper stuffing.

Thanks Whateve, this is super helpful, as usual from you! I read some posts here about the bag bath and wouldn't be afraid of trying it since the bag is black anyway (no need to fear watermarks I suppose versus on a lighter bag). Have you tried the bag bath before?

PS, thanks as well on teaching me about the creed. Now that I reread my own post, I feel like a dummy.
 
Thanks Whateve, this is super helpful, as usual from you! I read some posts here about the bag bath and wouldn't be afraid of trying it since the bag is black anyway (no need to fear watermarks I suppose versus on a lighter bag). Have you tried the bag bath before?

PS, thanks as well on teaching me about the creed. Now that I reread my own post, I feel like a dummy.
You're welcome. You won't get watermarks on any color bag as long the entire bag is immersed. I have washed many bags. It is scary at first, but they always come out better.
On a black bag especially, conditioner will conceal the fading and scratches quite a bit.

Don't feel like a dummy. There is a lot to learn, and the best way to learn is to ask questions.
 
Do you not think it's best to leave the personal opinions out of the equation. It would seem when a potential buyer inquires about an item the answer should be an unbiased opinion concerning the item..not what you personally think about the seller. Targeting a seller & attempting to tear down a reputation should not be tolerated. While you are quite knowledgeable about this subject you are not infallible and neither are the sellers. Most are human & prone to mistakes and oversights. That does not make us all charlatans and 'terrible' sellers. Hopefully buyers have sense enough to judge the seller on his or her record and standing in the community.


I think that you - or the seller mentioned, as the case may be, but I'll use "you" just to keep things simple - need to take the time to have Coach items authenticated before listing, and this problem won't occur. The problems mentioned in those listings have been mentioned in several accepted analyses of invalid/fake serial numbers and those are available to sellers and buyers both here and at Ebay.

Sellers are always welcome to ask for authenticity opinions here freely as long as they follow forum rules and don't advertise or link to their listings or stores, and by doing so can have the benefit of several opinions to help them decide whether or not a Coach item is genuine. Ebay DOES require that all items be authentic, and if a seller doesn't take steps to be sure it is by getting other opinions, or doesn't take steps to find what details point to something being fake, they're not making a strong enough effort to be sure they're selling genuine Coach products, and they run the risk of having counterfeit items removed by Ebay.

A simple understanding of Coach factory codes would have shown the seller mentioned that several of those bags weren't even close to having a valid month code. I can understand someone not knowing the plant location codes but to not know that Coach month codes only go to "M", and on very rare occasions, "N", is hard to justify. That's basic Coach knowledge for anyone who makes a living or fills a need by selling or buying Coach products. And that's NOT the kind of mistake a plant would keep making over and over to where dozens if not hundreds of bags would be leaving plants with codes like "P" or "S" that have never appeared in genuine Coaches and most of which show up in bags with other problems as well.

There's no reason a seller can't take advantage of the research that members here have already done, and there's a ton of other useful information here as well. Or they can post their own photos at Ebay's Shoes & Purses forum and still follow that forum's labyrinthine rules by declaring in the post requesting authenticity opinions that they own the bag and the photos. Or they can use a professional authentication service. Self-authenticating your own listings is only for sellers who are experienced at spotting fakes and know where to find the information that helps them do it.

As for not recommending sellers - when a seller lists 3 or 4 counterfeits in the space of a month, something's wrong. And potential buyers need to be aware that there's a risk factor buying from that seller that some of us find unacceptible, especially when it doesn't have to happen. Judging a seller "by their record" is all well and good, but when listing and selling fakes becomes part of that record, what then? Is everyone supposed to just ignore it?

Understand something clearly - NO ONE IS HERE TO HURT ANYONE'S REPUTATION. Everyone who authenticates here has gotten stuck with a fake at one time or another, and we don't want to see it happen to other people. The people in these forums who have taken the time to try and learn the subject of Coach fakes backwards and forwards do so for one simple reason - because we don't want to see anyone get ripped off, either deliberately or accidently. Even if a seller didn't realize a bag was fake, what about the buyer? Time AND money are lost since much of the time they won't be reimbursed for shipping charges if the fake has to be returned, and loss of trust in Ebay sellers in general and sometimes in the whole Ebay system. Nobody wins and everybody loses.

Hyacinth is being pretty kind here - trafficking in counterfeit merchandise is a crime and a violation of the eBay terms of service. I am always one to give the benefit of the doubt to a seller because, as Hyacinth correctly points out, all of us have been taken in by a skillful fake at one time or another. That being said, sellers have an affirmative obligation to confirm the authenticity of their items before listing them. A pattern of missing obvious errors on Coach purses such as impossible month codes is the result of (1) willful ignorance or (2) intentional disregard - neither of which is permissible and suggests to me that the seller is relying on the ignorance of his or her potential buyers to make the sale.

If a seller relists a bag that has been identified as counterfeit without obtaining a credible opinion on authenticity - that is just the icing on the cake.

The eBay model Is based on trust and reputation. The reputation of any buyer or seller should be based on facts. Facts are more than the buyer or seller's feedback. I have no issues with a community, such as this one, informing potential buyers of the facts when sellers are known to engage in unethical or illegal practices. I also know that this community is self correcting and will remove posts/correct the record if a seller comes forward with different facts. The recent posts in this thread discussing a particular seller stated facts and the poster's opinion based on those facts. That is exactly what forums like this are for.
 
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Thanks Whateve, that was fast! And I'm happy to know the name. Do you know what year it might be? I'm still getting confused with the Leatherware on the creed, and the 4 number - 3 number serials.
The all number creeds with "Made in the United States" were made between 1988 and 1993. The xxxx-xxx format was introduced around 1989. You can sometimes narrow it down if the style was only made for a few years. My catalog picture for the Shelton was from 1993.
 
The all number creeds with "Made in the United States" were made between 1988 and 1993. The xxxx-xxx format was introduced around 1989. You can sometimes narrow it down if the style was only made for a few years. My catalog picture for the Shelton was from 1993.

Thank you! I really appreciate your time. I took a chance on this bag, not having it authenticated before I bid. Whew.:smile1:
 
A while back, I had asked about 6-digit, all numeral, style numbers (having read somewhere that Coach was using some.)

I believe the conclusion was that Coach does NOT use any, but I was asked to show an example if I came across one. I just saw this one:

Item: Coach Signature Purse C's Red Black Cross Body Or Shoulder Large Purse Rare Bag
Listing number: 111162066323
Seller: garcia.dan71619772011
Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coach-Signa...323?pt=US_CSA_WH_Handbags&hash=item19e1c68593

Comments: I am not familiar with most of the fabric bags, which is why I'm asking about this one. I am assuming that it is "rare" for a reason(?)

Thanks!
 
A while back, I had asked about 6-digit, all numeral, style numbers (having read somewhere that Coach was using some.)

I believe the conclusion was that Coach does NOT use any, but I was asked to show an example if I came across one. I just saw this one:

Item: Coach Signature Purse C's Red Black Cross Body Or Shoulder Large Purse Rare Bag
Listing number: 111162066323
Seller: garcia.dan71619772011
Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coach-Signa...323?pt=US_CSA_WH_Handbags&hash=item19e1c68593

Comments: I am not familiar with most of the fabric bags, which is why I'm asking about this one. I am assuming that it is "rare" for a reason(?)

Thanks!

The style number is not all-numeric, the last digit is an "E" which at the end of a style number seems to be a code used for bags made for specific stores or retailers. We still don't know what most of those codes stand for. The actual style number looks like 18797. Comparing it to the others on Ebay, it seems genuine. More opinions are welcome.

ETA - that same style was discussed here:

http://forum.purseblog.com/coach-shopping/authenticate-this-coach-694619-408.html#post20813514
http://forum.purseblog.com/coach-shopping/authenticate-this-coach-694619-409.html#post20817690
 
The style number is not all-numeric, the last digit is an "E" which at the end of a style number seems to be a code used for bags made for specific stores or retailers. We still don't know what most of those codes stand for. The actual style number looks like 18797. Comparing it to the others on Ebay, it seems genuine. More opinions are welcome.
Thanks, Hyacinth - I could have sworn it was an "8" - that's what I get for trying to read sideways!

Thanks again.
 
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