Authenticate this COACH

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#15,215
Hyacinth said:
Originally Posted by lov I just bought this. Unfortunately I bought it before having it authenticated.
These are the pictures from the seller.
Is this authentic? Its supposed to be a vintage legacy saddle bag 9988
TIA!
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8403/hippie1.jpg

http://img807.imageshack.us/img807/8643/hippie2.jpg

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/5620/hippie3.jpg

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/2892/hippie4.jpg



Originally Posted by Hyacinth If you accept the common Purse Forum definition of "vintage", it's technically not.

One thing I'm wondering about, DemRam - do you know when the A plant in NYC was officially closed down? I've never seen a bag even from as early as 1996 with an "A" plant code. According to MrHarley's guide the New York A plant was closed in the 1970s but recently we've seen several sample bags that are still apparently made by a skeleton staff in New York or at least in the US.
http://reviews.ebay.com/Authentic-vs...00000011701556

The Saddle Bag was officially introduced in the Spring 1997 catalog, so it's possible it's a pre-production model that was made in NYC as a sample or trial run. Otherwise that A code shouldn't appear in a 1996 bag. Without having more photos and a known genuine Saddle Bag to compare it to, it's a question mark.



Thanks, DemRam, that's what I thought too. And the information in MrHarley's guide contradicts itself.

That's a shame too, I thought he might actually be someone who had an accurate record of the creed and plant information for vintage bags but it seems we have to keep looking. Not only did we look at a Made In NYC Skinny Flight Bag that doesn't appear in Coach's catalogs until 1985 (possibly 1984, I don't have a catalog for that year) but I owned the same style bag (bought on FleaBay so its birthday isn't known) and it also had a Made In NYC creed. So NYC seems to still have been making bags at least until around 1985.

"Somebody please let me know who the company is that can identify a bag as authentic by the letters/numbers on the creed."

Hey, the employees of Coach do it all the time. And 95 percent of the time they're completely wrong. :noggin:

If you happen to have a Saddle Bag, can you take a look at LOV's photos when you have time? Thanks again!
Click to expand...

I'm absolutely GUESSING about this, but I think Coach probably continued to operate that NYC factory at least until they were purchased by Sara Lee in 1985.

I'm not sure what this statement means. It is under the "Expanding Under Sara Lee" information. I wonder if it means that the NYC factory was still operational even through 1988?

Coach solved its production problem by opening a plant near Miami, Florida, where its Lightweights collection was manufactured, in 1988.

Maybe I'm just hoping that the factory was in operation longer than it actually was.

Anyway, I dragged out my "Berkeley Saddle Bag" (Creed C6C-9014) which I believe has the same "pattern" and the same dimensions. I compared everything and I don't see anything that looks "off" about lov's bag.

:smile1:

9014-BerkeleySaddleBagFront.jpg


9014-BerkeleySaddleBag1.jpg


9014-BerkeleySaddleBag2.jpg
 
#15,216
DemRam said:
I'm absolutely GUESSING about this, but I think Coach probably continued to operate that NYC factory at least until they were purchased by Sara Lee in 1985.

I'm not sure what this statement means. It is under the "Expanding Under Sara Lee" information. I wonder if it means that the NYC factory was still operational even through 1988?

Coach solved its production problem by opening a plant near Miami, Florida, where its Lightweights collection was manufactured, in 1988.

Maybe I'm just hoping that the factory was in operation longer than it actually was.

Anyway, I dragged out my "Berkeley Saddle Bag", (Creed C6C-9014) which I think is the same "pattern" with the same dimensions. I don't see anything that looks "off" about lov's bag.

:smile1:

9014-BerkeleySaddleBagFront.jpg


9014-BerkeleySaddleBag1.jpg


9014-BerkeleySaddleBag2.jpg
Click to expand...

Thanks for the photos, they look alike to me too.

I wanted to get this posted before the storms hit. There's a good history of the company here:
http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Coach-Inc-Company-History.html

"By the early 1980s, the Coach plant occupied four floors of a building on West 34th Street. The company was manufacturing purses, briefcases, billfolds, and belts, using skilled laborers, many of whom had emigrated from Argentina. Paying their workers wages that were a dollar or more higher than rates in other factories, the Cahns enjoyed good labor relations with their employees, which allowed them to produce a steady flow of Coach products.

In the late 1970s and early 1980s, Coach took two steps to diversify its channels of distribution. Under a new vice-president for special products, the company began a mail-order business, and also began to open its own specialty stores, to sell Coach products outside a department store setting. Sales of Coach products grew steadily throughout this period, until demand began to outstrip supply. Department stores were selling all the Coach bags that the company could produce, and by the early 1980s it had become necessary to ration the products to various vendors. Despite the potential for vast expansion of their market share, the Cahns continued to run their business in the same way that they always had. They had little desire to move their factory out of its urban Manhattan setting, to a place where rents and taxes might be lower, space more readily available, and wages cheaper. In addition, they did not want to change their methods of production so that goods could be made more quickly, at the expense of quality or workmanship. Instead, they continued to run their business on a personal level, maintaining first-name relationships with many of their workers, and inviting department store buyers from New York to tour their factory, to observe the craftsmanship that went into each Coach bag...

"
Expanding Under Sara Lee in the Late 1980s
In July 1985, the Cahns cemented an agreement with the Sara Lee Corporation, which also sold foodstuffs and hosiery. In return for a sum reported to be around $30 million, the conglomerate took control of the company's factory, its six boutiques, and its flagship store on Madison Avenue in New York...

To keep up with growing demand for Coach products, the company doubled its workforce, leased additional space for factory operations, and expanded the work week to six days. Despite these measures, however, by the fall of 1987, Coach was again unable to meet all orders for its goods, and the company began to seek additional room for expansion. In addition, to better control the circumstances under which its products were sold, Coach slashed the number of department stores retailing its goods by 50 percent...

Coach solved its production problem by opening a plant near Miami, Florida, where its Lightweights collection was manufactured, in 1988. The plant's production supplied 22 freestanding stores and 300 different retailers, making Coach products available in more than 1,000 locations. Although the traditional line and the Lightweights products were emphasized, Coach further expanded its offerings to include more business items for men and women. Among the new products were briefcases, wallets, and diaries. Coach's first nonleather product was introduced in 1988..."

So it sounds like the original NYC plant "A" was operating at least through the mid 1980s. After that the article goes more into sales and distribution but their information on the first 2 plants seems to fit with what we see on the creeds. The creeds were changed to say Made in the United States" at the time the Miami plant was added so that must be around 1988? And by 1994 when Coach started adding the letter code for the plant to the serial number the NYC plant would have been close3d and converted to corporate offices so we never (normally anyway) see any "A" plant codes in bags.

Is all that the same as what you found?
 
#15,217
Thank you so much for your efforts! I appreciate it!

DemRam said:
I'm absolutely GUESSING about this, but I think Coach probably continued to operate that NYC factory at least until they were purchased by Sara Lee in 1985.

I'm not sure what this statement means. It is under the "Expanding Under Sara Lee" information. I wonder if it means that the NYC factory was still operational even through 1988?

Coach solved its production problem by opening a plant near Miami, Florida, where its Lightweights collection was manufactured, in 1988.

Maybe I'm just hoping that the factory was in operation longer than it actually was.

Anyway, I dragged out my "Berkeley Saddle Bag" (Creed C6C-9014) which I believe has the same "pattern" and the same dimensions. I compared everything and I don't see anything that looks "off" about lov's bag.

:smile1:

9014-BerkeleySaddleBagFront.jpg


9014-BerkeleySaddleBag1.jpg


9014-BerkeleySaddleBag2.jpg
Click to expand...


Hyacinth said:
Thanks for the photos, they look alike to me too.

I wanted to get this posted before the storms hit. There's a good history of the company here:
http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Coach-Inc-Company-History.html

"By the early 1980s, the Coach plant occupied four floors of a building on West 34th Street. The company was manufacturing purses, briefcases, billfolds, and belts, using skilled laborers, many of whom had emigrated from Argentina. Paying their workers wages that were a dollar or more higher than rates in other factories, the Cahns enjoyed good labor relations with their employees, which allowed them to produce a steady flow of Coach products.

In the late 1970s and early 1980s, Coach took two steps to diversify its channels of distribution. Under a new vice-president for special products, the company began a mail-order business, and also began to open its own specialty stores, to sell Coach products outside a department store setting. Sales of Coach products grew steadily throughout this period, until demand began to outstrip supply. Department stores were selling all the Coach bags that the company could produce, and by the early 1980s it had become necessary to ration the products to various vendors. Despite the potential for vast expansion of their market share, the Cahns continued to run their business in the same way that they always had. They had little desire to move their factory out of its urban Manhattan setting, to a place where rents and taxes might be lower, space more readily available, and wages cheaper. In addition, they did not want to change their methods of production so that goods could be made more quickly, at the expense of quality or workmanship. Instead, they continued to run their business on a personal level, maintaining first-name relationships with many of their workers, and inviting department store buyers from New York to tour their factory, to observe the craftsmanship that went into each Coach bag...

"
Expanding Under Sara Lee in the Late 1980s
In July 1985, the Cahns cemented an agreement with the Sara Lee Corporation, which also sold foodstuffs and hosiery. In return for a sum reported to be around $30 million, the conglomerate took control of the company's factory, its six boutiques, and its flagship store on Madison Avenue in New York...

To keep up with growing demand for Coach products, the company doubled its workforce, leased additional space for factory operations, and expanded the work week to six days. Despite these measures, however, by the fall of 1987, Coach was again unable to meet all orders for its goods, and the company began to seek additional room for expansion. In addition, to better control the circumstances under which its products were sold, Coach slashed the number of department stores retailing its goods by 50 percent...

Coach solved its production problem by opening a plant near Miami, Florida, where its Lightweights collection was manufactured, in 1988. The plant's production supplied 22 freestanding stores and 300 different retailers, making Coach products available in more than 1,000 locations. Although the traditional line and the Lightweights products were emphasized, Coach further expanded its offerings to include more business items for men and women. Among the new products were briefcases, wallets, and diaries. Coach's first nonleather product was introduced in 1988..."

So it sounds like the original NYC plant "A" was operating at least through the mid 1980s. After that the article goes more into sales and distribution but their information on the first 2 plants seems to fit with what we see on the creeds. The creeds were changed to say Made in the United States" at the time the Miami plant was added so that must be around 1988? And by 1994 when Coach started adding the letter code for the plant to the serial number the NYC plant would have been close3d and converted to corporate offices so we never (normally anyway) see any "A" plant codes in bags.

Is all that the same as what you found?
Click to expand...
 
#15,223
#15,225
teerash said:
Item: New/Tag COACH 15914 Poppy Leather SABRINA Purse BLACK
Listing number: 230619930012
Seller: kelsresale
Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Tag-COACH-1...012?pt=US_CSA_WH_Handbags&hash=item35b204dd9c

Comments: I am super new to Coach and usually can't tell that easily most fakes. But this one is definitely fake right? I would like to report if it is, because that isn't right.
Click to expand...

starrymaz said:
It's fine. Please don't report. Why do you think it's fake?
Click to expand...

teerash said:
That's why I asked because I didn't know. I guess the straps looked cheap to me. There are no photos of the creed or any other part of the bag. And the only picture posted is very blurry.
Click to expand...

There are more pictures, including a picture of the creed, if you scroll down in the listing. The first picture (the gallery pic) is actually a Coach stock photo. The seller has a camera and is able to take her own pictures, and there's no reason she should be using a stock photo as the gallery pic in any of her listings (not to mention putting her watermark on the stock photo!)
 
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