Authenticate This COACH - **see first post for format**

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IMPORTANT READ-ME

Please post authenticity questions related to COACH in this thread. No PMs please.
For further information, please refer to the first post on page 1 of this thread.

Please follow the following requests:
  • Before you submit a request for authentication, please search this thread to make sure that the item has not previously been authenticated by searching the seller ID and/or item number. This is not a thread to ask general questions about COACH, please refer to our main Coach forum for such information.
  • Note that authenticators have the right to refuse any requests. This is a free service, but it is imperative that you help our authenticators by using the following format:
  • FOR ITEMS LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Listing number:
    Seller and site where listed
    Link:
    Comments:

  • FOR ITEMS NOT LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Where purchased or how obtained
    Comments:
BASIC PICTURES REQUIRED (but more may be requested): If necessary pictures are in the listing, it's not necessary to upload and duplicate them.
  • Front of item
  • Back of item
  • Full clear and legible creed text and serial number
  • Made in tags (when available)
  • Measurements
  • For bags with turnlock closures, show pictures of back of female side of turnlock
  • For bags with magnetic snaps, show pictures of the male part of the snap so that the numbers and letters on it can be read
  • If applicable, search interior of bag and/or pockets for small white tag with production information and include a picture of that.
Thank you and be safe!
 
We've seen a ton of inexpensive genuine Coaches and a ton of very expensive fakes. DON'T use price as an indicator of authenticity. The ONLY real indicator of authenticity are the details of the bag. Period.

Genuine.
Great! Glad to know its genuine Coach. Thank you! I wasn't going based off price alone. The person selling it is not the original owner so I wasn't sure if they could actually verify it. I also have never seen the Est 1941 on a Creed before, but like I said I know very, very little about Coach bags!
 
Great! Glad to know its genuine Coach. Thank you! I wasn't going based off price alone. The person selling it is not the original owner so I wasn't sure if they could actually verify it. I also have never seen the Est 1941 on a Creed before, but like I said I know very, very little about Coach bags!

Coach creeds change constantly. That's why we keep reminding everyone NOT to compare different styles made in different plants or years or even months. Even bags made within 30 days of each other can have different creeds especially if they're made of different materials. Every bag has to be judged based on its own details, not just compared to something similar unless they're actually production twins. Apples and apples!
 
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It has a serial number prefix we've seen before in genuine bags from a plant that had been Coach's original New York City plant but had been mostly turned into offices except for a small production area used for making samples and handling temporary production demand that other plants couldn't handle. The creed stamp matches those other bags and so do all the design details including the fonts used in the creed and serial. It also has large magnetic snaps made by a brand that has been used by Coach for decades and that so far at least has never been found in fake bags. Everything about it is exactly what I'd find on a genuine Coach. THAT'S what proves authenticity - not one or two details that can be copied by fakes makers, like correct serial numbers or the totally BS "YKK zippers", but having every detail from the fonts used in the serial number to the small details of stitching and hardware be exactly what they're supposed to be when you compare them to known genuine items from the same year, month and plant. And to do that requires a massive library of photos and text files.
The seller of this vintage Coach just said she worked at the NY headquarters from 1988-94. Is it possible this bag was actually made in the mid 1990s as a sample/pilot rather than the 80s like she previously stated? Also, you mentioned the creed of the bag matches creeds from different styles, is it possible to have a real Coach creed on an inauthentic bag? I really want to take her word for it that its authentic. However, the inconsistencies you pointed out do make me hesitant. Would it help if I got pictures of the zippers? I know that still would be no guarantee, since you said it's not possible to tell with this bag.
 
The seller of this vintage Coach just said she worked at the NY headquarters from 1988-94. Is it possible this bag was actually made in the mid 1990s as a sample/pilot rather than the 80s like she previously stated? Also, you mentioned the creed of the bag matches creeds from different styles, is it possible to have a real Coach creed on an inauthentic bag? I really want to take her word for it that its authentic. However, the inconsistencies you pointed out do make me hesitant. Would it help if I got pictures of the zippers? I know that still would be no guarantee, since you said it's not possible to tell with this bag.
I doubt there would have been silver zipper parts available at Coach before 1996 since every bag before 1997 had only brass hardware. It is possible that someone got an authentic creed or copied one perfectly and put it on a fake bag. It is also possible to have creeds without numbers even when the styles should have numbers, but it is very hard to prove these bags are authentic. It is possible to have creeds with the wrong wording in authentic bags. The silver zipper is IMO the one piece of evidence that is very hard to explain away.
 
The seller of this vintage Coach just said she worked at the NY headquarters from 1988-94. Is it possible this bag was actually made in the mid 1990s as a sample/pilot rather than the 80s like she previously stated? Also, you mentioned the creed of the bag matches creeds from different styles, is it possible to have a real Coach creed on an inauthentic bag? I really want to take her word for it that its authentic. However, the inconsistencies you pointed out do make me hesitant. Would it help if I got pictures of the zippers? I know that still would be no guarantee, since you said it's not possible to tell with this bag.

A zipper photo wouldn't prove anything. And nothing can explain the rest of the silver color hardware either, especially those square-ish rings holding the handles. They simply did NOT exist on Coach handbags until 1997. Silver hardware first appears on handbags in a few styles and colors in the Soho line in Summer 1997 but NOT in that kind of strap or handle hardware. It never appeared on any handbag as early as 1994, not even close. The smooth leather with pigskin trim also wasn't used on any Coaches until late 1998 for the 1999 style year. Those are dates right from the Coach catalogs. The very FIRST examples of nickel or any silver-color hardware was in the Early Fall 1997 catalog but for black briefcases ONLY. The top of the page even says " A new developement: BLACK AND NICKEL" and there aren't any pieces of nickel hardware like the ones on that bag. That "Coach New York" stamp on the front of the bag was also a detail that didn't even appear on Coach bags of any kind in any catalog until early 1998.

Once again I'm going to say it - there's simply no way to prove it's genuine because there's no verified history of any other one like it. and for me personally, a 1994 date just doesn't fit with the details on the bag.
 
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Hi whateve,

Sorry for another question. Is the vintage coach regina made in 1996? Is this right?

View attachment 4348801
Creed photo

Many thanks in advance for your help [emoji120]

The serial number on the creed is H8C-9983. The bag was made in August of 1998 at Coach's "C" plant. The style number 9983 is the Regina bag's style number.

You can learn more about decoding Coach creeds and serial numbers here:
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/salearea-guides.983575/
 
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The material that the side of the bag is made of doesn't matter in the description of the bag's materials. The creed description is about the MAIN material used in the item.

The seller says "I bought it when I worked at Coach in the 80's at their NY headquarters and I am selling it for a low price since it's just sitting in my closet." That 1980s date is IMPOSSIBLE. The creed statement, the leathers used, and the lining are all from the mid-1990s and didn't even exist before then. The real problem for an earlier date is the hardware, those squarish silver metal handle mounts also didn't even exist until 1997, since ALL Coach hardware before then was brass or brass-plated metal. The very FIRST use of nickle or silver color metal on handbags didn't happen until 1997, and then only as buckles and on certain styles (a few briefcases and travel items from 1996 also had silver-color hardware which was different than the hardware on handbags). The silver color handle mounts on handbags weren't introduced or even MADE until late 1997 or maybe early 1998, and that's according to actual Coach catalogs from those dates. A few silver hardware pieces were made in 1997 for the Soho line but the strap handle mounts were a very different shape My catalog library goes back to 1981 and those silver handle mounts in that shape weren't even introduced until 1998 for the Bridle and Hudson lines. That combination of smooth calfskin, if that's what it actually is, with straps, trim and side panels made of pigskin, is something that was ONLY used in the Bridle line from 1998-2000..

While it's possible that the seller doesn't actually remember exactly when she worked for Coach, there's a big difference between "the 1980s" and 1997, which is the absolute earliest year a bag would have been able to be constructed with THAT silver hardware, that striped lining, that pigskin trim (also introduced on the Bridle line in 1998!) and that creed patch wording. It's hard for me to believe that a seller could be that far off on the dates when she would have worked for an important company like Coach. I'm over 70 years old and I can still remember the places I've worked for since age 16 and the dates within a year or two.

Another problem is that that style simply doesn't exist anywhere. In almost 15 years of studying and collecting Coach, I've never seen it before. If it was a pilot or sample bag, it usually would have an outlet stamp, or if it was sold to an employee it should usually have a white-stamped "FS" for Final Sale or some other stamp indicating an Employee Sale item. Sample or pilot bags from that period would also have had a serial number stamp at the bottom of the creed stamp. The incorrect creed wording that doesn't match the bag's construction is possible if it was a pilot or sample, but trying to resell it would be a huge problem since it can't be authenticated and it has an inaccurate creed statement and no serial number. If it's actually a product of the Italian plant, that would explain some of the shaky details but not the problem with the period when the seller says she bought the bag.

With all those details that just don't add up and seem to contradict what the seller actually said, there's simply NO way to authenticate that bag. And just as a personal observation, that style with that very short top opening would be difficult to use and hard to even get larger items in or out of the bag. Members here have complained about similar problems on current or recent barrel-style bags. If it actually was made as a pilot or sample, that's probably why it never saw production.

And unless they're marked in some way with a known Coach mark or stamp, pilot and sample bags CANNOT be authenticated, and someone trying to sell it might very well be accused of selling a fake . As I've already said, it's a bunch of different details and materials that would only have been available in the late 1990s, and would never have been found together in a full production bag during that time. So while there's a chance that it might have been produced in a Coach plant since it looks well-made, there's simply no way to prove it.
Out of curiosity I checked out the listing. If I understand correctly, the seller did not know what the Creed was when asked. Work at Coach for 6 years and not know what the Creed imprint or stamp is ? :whut:
 
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Out of curiosity I checked out the listing. If I understand correctly, the seller did not know what the Creed was when asked. Work at Coach for 6 years and not know what the Creed imprint or stamp is ? :whut:

Remember, "worked at Coach" doesn't mean that she was involved in any design or production capacity. She could have worked in Shipping for all we know.Or maybe she just wasn't interested in production details. The term "creed" isn't universal either, in newer bags and in some older literature the term "storypatch" still crops up. A creed is just a statement of belief or commitment.
 
Remember, "worked at Coach" doesn't mean that she was involved in any design or production capacity. She could have worked in Shipping for all we know.Or maybe she just wasn't interested in production details. The term "creed" isn't universal either, in newer bags and in some older literature the term "storypatch" still crops up. A creed is just a statement of belief or commitment.
Are you trying to say she worked there without worshipping the best leathah evah and the most amazing bags evah, without absorbing every detail?? :whut: :faint:
 
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