Authenticate This COACH - **see first post for format**

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IMPORTANT READ-ME

Please post authenticity questions related to COACH in this thread. No PMs please.
For further information, please refer to the first post on page 1 of this thread.

Please follow the following requests:
  • Before you submit a request for authentication, please search this thread to make sure that the item has not previously been authenticated by searching the seller ID and/or item number. This is not a thread to ask general questions about COACH, please refer to our main Coach forum for such information.
  • Note that authenticators have the right to refuse any requests. This is a free service, but it is imperative that you help our authenticators by using the following format:
  • FOR ITEMS LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Listing number:
    Seller and site where listed
    Link:
    Comments:

  • FOR ITEMS NOT LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Where purchased or how obtained
    Comments:
BASIC PICTURES REQUIRED (but more may be requested): If necessary pictures are in the listing, it's not necessary to upload and duplicate them.
  • Front of item
  • Back of item
  • Full clear and legible creed text and serial number
  • Made in tags (when available)
  • Measurements
  • For bags with turnlock closures, show pictures of back of female side of turnlock
  • For bags with magnetic snaps, show pictures of the male part of the snap so that the numbers and letters on it can be read
  • If applicable, search interior of bag and/or pockets for small white tag with production information and include a picture of that.
Thank you and be safe!
 
https://poshmark.com/listing/Vintage-Coach-barrel-leather-bag-58792a267f0a053124011ffa
Here is the link, there is two other photos (I'm thinking maybe the side of the bag is the textured leather). Thanks for taking the time to reply. I replied to my post with the measurements they are 11w x 6h (mini, I think?)

The material that the side of the bag is made of doesn't matter in the description of the bag's materials. The creed description is about the MAIN material used in the item.

The seller says "I bought it when I worked at Coach in the 80's at their NY headquarters and I am selling it for a low price since it's just sitting in my closet." That 1980s date is IMPOSSIBLE. The creed statement, the leathers used, and the lining are all from the mid-1990s and didn't even exist before then. The real problem for an earlier date is the hardware, those squarish silver metal handle mounts also didn't even exist until 1997, since ALL Coach hardware before then was brass or brass-plated metal. The very FIRST use of nickle or silver color metal on handbags didn't happen until 1997, and then only as buckles and on certain styles (a few briefcases and travel items from 1996 also had silver-color hardware which was different than the hardware on handbags). The silver color handle mounts on handbags weren't introduced or even MADE until late 1997 or maybe early 1998, and that's according to actual Coach catalogs from those dates. A few silver hardware pieces were made in 1997 for the Soho line but the strap handle mounts were a very different shape My catalog library goes back to 1981 and those silver handle mounts in that shape weren't even introduced until 1998 for the Bridle and Hudson lines. That combination of smooth calfskin, if that's what it actually is, with straps, trim and side panels made of pigskin, is something that was ONLY used in the Bridle line from 1998-2000..

While it's possible that the seller doesn't actually remember exactly when she worked for Coach, there's a big difference between "the 1980s" and 1997, which is the absolute earliest year a bag would have been able to be constructed with THAT silver hardware, that striped lining, that pigskin trim (also introduced on the Bridle line in 1998!) and that creed patch wording. It's hard for me to believe that a seller could be that far off on the dates when she would have worked for an important company like Coach. I'm over 70 years old and I can still remember the places I've worked for since age 16 and the dates within a year or two.

Another problem is that that style simply doesn't exist anywhere. In almost 15 years of studying and collecting Coach, I've never seen it before. If it was a pilot or sample bag, it usually would have an outlet stamp, or if it was sold to an employee it should usually have a white-stamped "FS" for Final Sale or some other stamp indicating an Employee Sale item. Sample or pilot bags from that period would also have had a serial number stamp at the bottom of the creed stamp. The incorrect creed wording that doesn't match the bag's construction is possible if it was a pilot or sample, but trying to resell it would be a huge problem since it can't be authenticated and it has an inaccurate creed statement and no serial number. If it's actually a product of the Italian plant, that would explain some of the shaky details but not the problem with the period when the seller says she bought the bag.

With all those details that just don't add up and seem to contradict what the seller actually said, there's simply NO way to authenticate that bag. And just as a personal observation, that style with that very short top opening would be difficult to use and hard to even get larger items in or out of the bag. Members here have complained about similar problems on current or recent barrel-style bags. If it actually was made as a pilot or sample, that's probably why it never saw production.

And unless they're marked in some way with a known Coach mark or stamp, pilot and sample bags CANNOT be authenticated, and someone trying to sell it might very well be accused of selling a fake . As I've already said, it's a bunch of different details and materials that would only have been available in the late 1990s, and would never have been found together in a full production bag during that time. So while there's a chance that it might have been produced in a Coach plant since it looks well-made, there's simply no way to prove it.
 
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The material that the side of the bag is made of doesn't matter in the description of the bag's materials. The creed description is about the MAIN material used in the item.

The seller says "I bought it when I worked at Coach in the 80's at their NY headquarters and I am selling it for a low price since it's just sitting in my closet." That 1980s date is IMPOSSIBLE. The creed statement, the leathers used, and the lining are all from the mid-1990s and didn't even exist before then. The real problem for an earlier date is the hardware, those squarish silver metal handle mounts also didn't even exist until 1997, since ALL Coach hardware before then was brass or brass-plated metal. The very FIRST use of nickle or silver color metal on handbags didn't happen until 1997, and then only as buckles and on certain styles (a few briefcases and travel items from 1996 also had silver-color hardware which was different than the hardware on handbags). The silver color handle mounts on handbags weren't introduced or even MADE until late 1997 or maybe early 1998, and that's according to actual Coach catalogs from those dates. A few silver hardware pieces were made in 1997 for the Soho line but the strap handle mounts were a very different shape My catalog library goes back to 1981 and those silver handle mounts in that shape weren't even introduced until 1998 for the Bridle and Hudson lines. That combination of smooth calfskin, if that's what it actually is, with straps, trim and side panels made of pigskin, is something that was ONLY used in the Bridle line from 1998-2000..

While it's possible that the seller doesn't actually remember exactly when she worked for Coach, there's a big difference between "the 1980s" and 1997, which is the absolute earliest year a bag would have been able to be constructed with THAT silver hardware, that striped lining, that pigskin trim (also introduced on the Bridle line in 1998!) and that creed patch wording. It's hard for me to believe that a seller could be that far off on the dates when she would have worked for an important company like Coach. I'm over 70 years old and I can still remember the places I've worked for since age 16 and the dates within a year or two.

Another problem is that that style simply doesn't exist anywhere. In almost 15 years of studying and collecting Coach, I've never seen it before. If it was a pilot or sample bag, it usually would have an outlet stamp, or if it was sold to an employee it should usually have a white-stamped "FS" for Final Sale or some other stamp indicating an Employee Sale item. Sample or pilot bags from that period would also have had a serial number stamp at the bottom of the creed stamp. The incorrect creed wording that doesn't match the bag's construction is possible if it was a pilot or sample, but trying to resell it would be a huge problem since it can't be authenticated and it has an inaccurate creed statement and no serial number. If it's actually a product of the Italian plant, that would explain some of the shaky details but not the problem with the period when the seller says she bought the bag.

With all those details that just don't add up and seem to contradict what the seller actually said, there's simply NO way to authenticate that bag. And just as a personal observation, that style with that very short top opening would be difficult to use and hard to even get larger items in or out of the bag. Members here have complained about similar problems on current or recent barrel-style bags. If it actually was made as a pilot or sample, that's probably why it never saw production.

And unless they're marked in some way with a known Coach mark or stamp, pilot and sample bags CANNOT be authenticated. As I've already said, it's a bunch of different details and materials that would only have been available in the late 1990s, and would never have been found together in a full production bag during that time. So while there's a chance that it might have been produced in a Coach plant there's simply no way to prove it.
All right, that too bad. I was really hoping it was authentic. Its so pretty, such a bummer! Thank you for your help!
 
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All right, that too bad. I was really hoping it was authentic. Its so pretty, such a bummer! Thank you for your help!

It may actually BE a product of Coach's Italy plant but there's just no way to prove it. The seller's mistaken date estimate doesn't help either. The Italy plant often followed their own Rules (just like the wiring in my old Fiats which seemed to be based on "these different wire colors look pretty together so let's install them that way instead of matching the colors") and if any plant would have produced a bag like that it would be Italy since they made the various style lines like Madison, Sonoma and Bridle that used the same materials. But again, that's not proof.

I bought what I'm 100 percent sure is a genuine sample bag with a 0000 style number a few years ago that I know I can never re-sell and that I've never seen in production, but I bought it because it had all the details I wanted and I knew it would work for me. To me it's a teeny-tiny hidden piece of Coach history. If someone wants to buy an un-authenticateable item for that reason, more power to them. But never buy it as an investment or for resale, just buy it to use it and enjoy it.
 
It may actually BE a product of Coach's Italy plant but there's just no way to prove it. The seller's mistaken date estimate doesn't help either. The Italy plant often followed their own Rules (just like the wiring in my old Fiats which seemed to be based on "these different wire colors look pretty together so let's install them that way instead of matching the colors") and if any plant would have produced a bag like that it would be Italy since they made the various style lines like Madison, Sonoma and Bridle that used the same materials. But again, that's not proof.

I bought what I'm 100 percent sure is a genuine sample bag with a 0000 style number a few years ago that I know I can never re-sell and that I've never seen in production, but I bought it because it had all the details I wanted and I knew it would work for me. To me it's a teeny-tiny hidden piece of Coach history. If someone wants to buy an un-authenticateable item for that reason, more power to them. But never buy it as an investment or for resale, just buy it to use it and enjoy it.
Thank you so much for your help. It does have a tag inside that says made in China. I did buy it for personal use, so I'm not too concerned about resale value. Now, time to get to work on cleaning it up!
 
It may actually BE a product of Coach's Italy plant but there's just no way to prove it. The seller's mistaken date estimate doesn't help either. The Italy plant often followed their own Rules (just like the wiring in my old Fiats which seemed to be based on "these different wire colors look pretty together so let's install them that way instead of matching the colors") and if any plant would have produced a bag like that it would be Italy since they made the various style lines like Madison, Sonoma and Bridle that used the same materials. But again, that's not proof.

I bought what I'm 100 percent sure is a genuine sample bag with a 0000 style number a few years ago that I know I can never re-sell and that I've never seen in production, but I bought it because it had all the details I wanted and I knew it would work for me. To me it's a teeny-tiny hidden piece of Coach history. If someone wants to buy an un-authenticateable item for that reason, more power to them. But never buy it as an investment or for resale, just buy it to use it and enjoy it.
That makes sense. My intentions are for personal use, not resale. I'm just hesitant on spending a lot of money on what may be a fake bag. How were you able to authenticate your sample Coach bag?
 
Purchased a few coach bags from a local seller on a community resale site. I have questions about authenticity of course. I can't find any info on the following bag or similar images online. I believe it to be super vintage. Can you help? I have more photos if necessary. Thank you!
 

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I also purchased this bag from the same seller as above.
 

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That makes sense. My intentions are for personal use, not resale. I'm just hesitant on spending a lot of money on what may be a fake bag. How were you able to authenticate your sample Coach bag?

It has a serial number prefix we've seen before in genuine bags from a plant that had been Coach's original New York City plant but had been mostly turned into offices except for a small production area used for making samples and handling temporary production demand that other plants couldn't handle. The creed stamp matches those other bags and so do all the design details including the fonts used in the creed and serial. It also has large magnetic snaps made by a brand that has been used by Coach for decades and that so far at least has never been found in fake bags. Everything about it is exactly what I'd find on a genuine Coach. THAT'S what proves authenticity - not one or two details that can be copied by fakes makers, like correct serial numbers or the totally BS "YKK zippers", but having every detail from the fonts used in the serial number to the small details of stitching and hardware be exactly what they're supposed to be when you compare them to known genuine items from the same year, month and plant. And to do that requires a massive library of photos and text files.
 
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