Authenticate This COACH - **see first post for format**

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#47,869
IMPORTANT READ-ME

Please post authenticity questions related to COACH in this thread. No PMs please.
For further information, please refer to the first post on page 1 of this thread.

Please follow the following requests:
  • Before you submit a request for authentication, please search this thread to make sure that the item has not previously been authenticated by searching the seller ID and/or item number. This is not a thread to ask general questions about COACH, please refer to our main Coach forum for such information.
  • Note that authenticators have the right to refuse any requests. This is a free service, but it is imperative that you help our authenticators by using the following format:
  • FOR ITEMS LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Listing number:
    Seller and site where listed
    Link:
    Comments:

  • FOR ITEMS NOT LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Where purchased or how obtained
    Comments:
BASIC PICTURES REQUIRED (but more may be requested): If necessary pictures are in the listing, it's not necessary to upload and duplicate them.
  • Front of item
  • Back of item
  • Full clear and legible creed text and serial number
  • Made in tags (when available)
  • Measurements
  • For bags with turnlock closures, show pictures of back of female side of turnlock
  • For bags with magnetic snaps, show pictures of the male part of the snap so that the numbers and letters on it can be read
  • If applicable, search interior of bag and/or pockets for small white tag with production information and include a picture of that.
Thank you and be safe!
 
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#31,036
BeenBurned said:
It's interesting and while I'm not sure it's fake, it clearly has an error on the creed. Whether the error is a result of a foreign plant or if it's fake, I'm not sure though I don't see anything else that indicates that it's not authentic.

The creed describes a bag made of "completely natural glove tanned cowhide."

I wasn't able to find that identical style though I found a couple of similar items that if yours is authentic would probably be from the same era.

Please wait for other opinions

Here's a similar wristlet, style 3584:
View attachment 4156615

There are some styles with a similar handle but not with kisslocks (that I can find) and none in the optic signature pattern.
Click to expand...

What bothers me is that I don't remember ever seeing a FABRIC bag from the Italian plant, other than fakes. In the early to middle 2000 decade the only things they were making were a few of those arty multicolor suede hobos and some small dressy clutches made of exotic leathers like pony hair, lizard, vachetta, and pearlized nappa leather, but no fabric styles that I could find, and the ones I could find with creeds all had correct creed descriptions that exactly fitted the bags' construction. By the time the Optic Sig patterns came out, Coach was phasing out the Italian plant except for some of their top of the line exotic alligator and ostrich styles. If they just wanted a metallic or Lurex Sig Optic fabric their Chinese plants were already making bags with those fabrics, why farm it out to Italy? Even the style 3584 clutch you mentioned had a China plant code G05Q-3584 according to an old Ebay listing. There was a mini C Lurex clutch or wristlet too but that one didn't have any creed at all.

I'm also bothered about what looks like unsoldered openings on the O-rings of the strap chains. And after looking at the other limited production styles from that Italian plant, the one being asked about just doesn't FEEL the same, if you know what I mean. It doesn't say "Italy" to me. In fact it reminds me more of some of those fakes we used to see with the silver-color "Made In Italy" paper tags.
 
#31,037
Slovero said:
Item Name:? Small Kisslock bag. Measures about 9 inches across the bottom and about 4 inches tall. No number inside. Says made in Italy.
Thank you for any help you can give me.
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Hyacinth said:
I've never seen it before. It doesn't look like glove-tanned cowhide (is it?), and many of the Cs aren't shaped correctly according to Coach's registered trademarks. I've also never seen any marks inside a genuine Coach similar to that "S" that looks like it's written in Wite-Out.
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BeenBurned said:
It's interesting and while I'm not sure it's fake, it clearly has an error on the creed. Whether the error is a result of a foreign plant or if it's fake, I'm not sure though I don't see anything else that indicates that it's not authentic.

The creed describes a bag made of "completely natural glove tanned cowhide."

I wasn't able to find that identical style though I found a couple of similar items that if yours is authentic would probably be from the same era.

Please wait for other opinions

Here's a similar wristlet, style 3584:
View attachment 4156615

There are some styles with a similar handle but not with kisslocks (that I can find) and none in the optic signature pattern.
Click to expand...

Hyacinth said:
What bothers me is that I don't remember ever seeing a FABRIC bag from the Italian plant, other than fakes. In the early to middle 2000 decade the only things they were making were a few of those arty multicolor suede hobos and some small dressy clutches made of exotic leathers like pony hair, lizard, vachetta, and pearlized nappa leather, but no fabric styles that I could find, and the ones I could find with creeds all had correct creed descriptions that exactly fitted the bags' construction. By the time the Optic Sig patterns came out, Coach was phasing out the Italian plant except for some of their top of the line exotic alligator and ostrich styles. If they just wanted a metallic or Lurex Sig Optic fabric their Chinese plants were already making bags with those fabrics, why farm it out to Italy? Even the style 3584 clutch you mentioned had a China plant code G05Q-3584 according to an old Ebay listing. There was a mini C Lurex clutch or wristlet too but that one didn't have any creed at all.

I'm also bothered about what looks like unsoldered openings on the O-rings of the strap chains. And after looking at the other limited production styles from that Italian plant, the one being asked about just doesn't FEEL the same, if you know what I mean. It doesn't say "Italy" to me. In fact it reminds me more of some of those fakes we used to see with the silver-color "Made In Italy" paper tags.
Click to expand...
The more times I go back and look at it, the more uncomfortable I am.

Another problem with the bag is the colors. AFAIK, the similar styles only came in pink.

I'm hoping that @Slovero comes back with more information on the source of her item.
 
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#31,038
katev said:
I have a question for the authenticators about a bag that sold yesterday for $100 on ebay. The link for that auction isn't working but you can use the link below for a previous "no bid" listing for the same item.

It is described as a "Vintage Bonnie Cashin Attache Leather Bag 60s Early" and it looks like an early Cashin bag, but it doesn't have any Coach markings and there isn't any striped lining inside the kisslock compartment. It has a "serval" zipper pull and I believe that Coach used that brand on some of the early bags but of course that is not conclusive.

@kstar54 found the auction and we discussed it on the Vintage bags thread but didn't come to any conclusions. I am curious about the bag and would like to hear the opinions of the experts, thanks!

ETA: now the second link isn't working so I will try to grab some pictures and post in a separate message, sorry!
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katev said:
Okay, here are some pic of the purported Bonnie Cashin attache that sold on ebay yesterday, I'd appreciate your opinions.
View attachment 4156663 View attachment 4156664 View attachment 4156665 View attachment 4156666

View attachment 4156667

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BeenBurned said:
I found the listing. I think the link works.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-BONNIE-CASHIN-Attache-LEATHER-BAG-60s-Early-/263848350315?hash=item3d6e96526b:g:O~gAAOSwrK1bVmtQ&_nkw=vintage+bonnie+cashin+attache&_sacat=0&_from=R40&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=OMQybDn4jO7V5iroLlSAqpadD9E%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true

I think your question is asking whether this is a BC bag or if it's "inspired."

I can't answer that question and chimed in only to post the link.

ETA: I will say that just because Coach used a particular brand of zipper doesn't mean that they have any connection to the bag it's in. I don't doubt for a second that Serval sold their zippers to many other companies.
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Hyacinth said:
Speaking only for myself, I'd defer to the posters at the Vintage thread as long as they included Whateve and RL Bernstein but I haven't read or looked for the posts there. I don't have any experience with Cashin styles, Coach or otherwise. If THEY don't know, then I sure don't.

But if there's no name anywhere on the bag there's no way to prove that BC or any other name designer had anything to do with it. Purse and clothing styles with a very few notable exceptions aren't and can't be trademarked, so anyone is free to copy them.
Click to expand...
I agree, there is no way to prove it was made by Coach or designed by Bonnie Cashin.
 
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#31,039
Hi :) Thank you so much for the responses on my bag. I apologize for not following the format. I do not have the seller, any link, or a serial number so I did not include that. I should have written that I bought it at a thrift shop for 1.99 and that I took the pictures. Thank you for the input and the knowledge.
 
#31,040
BeenBurned said:
The more times I go back and look at it, the more uncomfortable I am.

Another problem with the bag is the colors. AFAIK, the similar styles only came in pink.

I'm hoping that @Slovero comes back with more information on the source of her item.
Click to expand...

There are also too many differences in the shapes of the Cs. Some barely have any serifs at all. Others are almost the same thickness all the way around instead of being much thicker in the middle part of the C, like the light-colored side-by-side pair just to the left of center in the first photo that are actually connected and show no serifs at all. Right above that pair is a face-to-face C pair in a sort of mocha color where the C on the left has had almost the entire left side of it chopped off. I've included a thumbnail of the first photo.

Compare that pattern to this old listing on Tradesy where the Cs all follow the standard C design:
https://www.tradesy.com/i/coach-clutch-pinkfuschia-762853/762853/

Look at each C and see how different they all are from one another. Coach DOESN'T do that, even on Sig Optics. There's something wrong with almost every C pair I look at.

And as you said, the color is also a problem. Coach never did a Sig Optic in those colors. And WHY would they use a pink lining? Did they finally run out of that shiny gold mini C fake fabric?


creed-Italy-wrong C shapes+unsoldered-O-rings-a1.jpg
 
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#31,043
unica_maldita said:
View attachment 4157084 View attachment 4157085 View attachment 4157087 View attachment 4157089 View attachment 4157091 View attachment 4157092 View attachment 4157093 View attachment 4157094 View attachment 4157095 Item: Black Gathered Leather Madison
Seller: thecatseye
Link: https://ph.carousell.com/p/183302663
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but I've seen so many close fakes (more than authentic items) listed by Filippino sellers or coming from the Philippines that I can't recommend them.

I realize that buyers want to support sellers in their own country but in this case, it's just too dangerous.
 
#31,044
katev said:
Okay, here are some pic of the purported Bonnie Cashin attache that sold on ebay yesterday, I'd appreciate your opinions.
View attachment 4156663 View attachment 4156664 View attachment 4156665 View attachment 4156666

View attachment 4156667

View attachment 4156668

View attachment 4156669

View attachment 4156670
Click to expand...

Hyacinth said:
Speaking only for myself, I'd defer to the posters at the Vintage thread as long as they included Whateve and RL Bernstein but I haven't read or looked for the posts there. I don't have any experience with Cashin styles, Coach or otherwise. If THEY don't know, then I sure don't.

But if there's no name anywhere on the bag there's no way to prove that BC or any other name designer had anything to do with it. Purse and clothing styles with a very few notable exceptions aren't and can't be trademarked, so anyone is free to copy them.
Click to expand...
Providing my two cents worth...
I've several examples of BC's Zippered Attache w/ outside purses, so I'll mention my concerns that cast a long shadow of doubt relative to the one shown in the listing having a COACH pedigree.

(1) All the ones in my possession have a SEBA zipper with a locking tab attached to it and a mating receiver close to the bottom edge of the bag. (Note: the use of Serval zippers was typical on BC for Meyers made bags).
(2) On the ones I have, the zipper starts/terminates closer to the bottom of the bag than in the one in question, has corners that are more rounded, and is sewn to the leather with two rows of perimeter stitches. Also the bags do not have the seams that extend from the zipper start/end to the bag's sides as seen on the bag in question.
(3) All the bags I have are identified with a black "Bonnie Cashin" metal tag exposed when you open the kisslock purse.
(4) All the bags interiors are lined with BC's signature striped fabric (without black separating thread). The earliest version is fully lined, whereas later production left the inner side of the flap unlined (suede). The interior of the outside kisslock purse pocket is fully lined.
(5) The "feet" on all the bags are the rounded "bubble" variety found on several of the styles available in the mid 1960s (not the flat-bottomed conical variety shown on the bag in question). Please note that the initial release of this style did have four "feet," whereas later ones came with only two.
(6) The handle's rectangular ring attaches to the bag with a simple "T" shaped metal fitting, not the what appears to be riveted leather attach tab. shown in the listing's photos
(7) The proportions and location of the kisslock frame on the front of the this particualr bag appears to be different than on the authentic versions (higher up and narrower in width). Also, the leather return behind the kisslock frame is wider on the bag in question.
(8) Etc....

So, like others have mentioned, in the absence of any tag or label, identifying the source for the bag in the listing cannot be done with any degree of certainty. That said, given the above attributes/discrepancies, I believe that it is safe to say that it is not one from any COACH production run. Perhaps if indeed it is from BC it could be either an early "mock-up" or a version contemplated for any of the several "BC for ..." manufactures. Or maybe it was the product of a subsequent design study emulation by someone researching BC history. I suspect that one can only guess.
 
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#31,045
BeenBurned said:
I'm sorry but I've seen so many close fakes (more than authentic items) listed by Filippino sellers or coming from the Philippines that I can't recommend them.

I realize that buyers want to support sellers in their own country but in this case, it's just too dangerous.
Click to expand...

Does that mean this one looks too close to an authentic? I saw it was reserved a few days ago and now is back to available. But it could just be a failure from the buyer's end to pay on time than it being returned due to authenticity issues.
 
#31,047
#31,049
unica_maldita said:
Does that mean this one looks too close to an authentic? I saw it was reserved a few days ago and now is back to available. But it could just be a failure from the buyer's end to pay on time than it being returned due to authenticity issues.
Click to expand...
It means that the fakes from the Philippines are too close for me to try to figure out which sellers have authentic items, which ones have fakes and which ones may have a mixture because they may have been fooled.

Most sellers don't have good detailed pictures or enough pictures to determine authenticity and even if they did, the time involved would be too much.
 
#31,050
Hi all, I recently submitted a bag bought on Etsy for authentication and really appreciated the help. Unfortunately, I'm in a dispute with the seller of the bag, who has no motivation to refund unless forced to, because the burden of proving a fake is on me. The Etsy admin said, at first, I could submit various types of evidence to show the bag was fake and gave an "including but not limited to" list of suggestions.

So after I did a bunch of research, had the bag authenticated here, and laid everything out as clearly as I could with supporting images, I got a quick reply from the Etsy admin saying "oh, what we really want is a signed letter from an accredited authentication service."

*steam comes out of ears*

I asked for more specifics on "accredited" and got no reply. But I'll stop my rant and cut to the chase:

Can anyone recommend a reliable, reasonably priced service for an authentication letter?

I tried to search threads before asking and see that I should not use My Poupette.
Is CarolDiva still a recommended service?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for listening- I'm frustrated that I have to prove a federal case (and pretty much have), whereas the buyer's reply is basically "nuh uh, it's real" and that is apparently sufficient to keep the dispute alive.
 
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