Authenticate This COACH - **see first post for format**

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#47,869
IMPORTANT READ-ME

Please post authenticity questions related to COACH in this thread. No PMs please.
For further information, please refer to the first post on page 1 of this thread.

Please follow the following requests:
  • Before you submit a request for authentication, please search this thread to make sure that the item has not previously been authenticated by searching the seller ID and/or item number. This is not a thread to ask general questions about COACH, please refer to our main Coach forum for such information.
  • Note that authenticators have the right to refuse any requests. This is a free service, but it is imperative that you help our authenticators by using the following format:
  • FOR ITEMS LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Listing number:
    Seller and site where listed
    Link:
    Comments:

  • FOR ITEMS NOT LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Where purchased or how obtained
    Comments:
BASIC PICTURES REQUIRED (but more may be requested): If necessary pictures are in the listing, it's not necessary to upload and duplicate them.
  • Front of item
  • Back of item
  • Full clear and legible creed text and serial number
  • Made in tags (when available)
  • Measurements
  • For bags with turnlock closures, show pictures of back of female side of turnlock
  • For bags with magnetic snaps, show pictures of the male part of the snap so that the numbers and letters on it can be read
  • If applicable, search interior of bag and/or pockets for small white tag with production information and include a picture of that.
Thank you and be safe!
 
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#21,526
Lake Effect said:
@Hyacinth I do have a question that ties in with the two bags just authenticated. Several sellers indicate when the creed stamp says made in the United States and the printing of the Coach at the top of the creed is raised as opposed to depressed, that it indicates a bag was made in the New York City plant, as opposed to other plants they used in the late 80's or early 90's. Of course, they use it as a marketing point that the bag is a New York City. Any truth?
Btw, if you haven't heard, the made in NYC bags are disappearing at an alarming rate, according to one online seller. Just wanted to keep everyone here in the loop. LOL
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I've never heard that. Between 1989 and 1993, when bags were stamped "Made in the United States," I wasn't aware there was any way to know which plant they were made in. If that were true, and NYC was the A plant, then why is the printing of Coach at the top of creed raised in creeds from the B plant, as can be seen in this 1994 creed, which looks like the same stamp as the following pre-1994 creed?
 

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  • US creed pre 1994 90s with half rolled numbers .JPG
    US creed pre 1994 90s with half rolled numbers .JPG
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#21,527
Lake Effect said:
@Hyacinth I do have a question that ties in with the two bags just authenticated. Several sellers indicate when the creed stamp says made in the United States and the printing of the Coach at the top of the creed is raised as opposed to depressed, that it indicates a bag was made in the New York City plant, as opposed to other plants they used in the late 80's or early 90's. Of course, they use it as a marketing point that the bag is a New York City. Any truth?
Btw, if you haven't heard, the made in NYC bags are disappearing at an alarming rate, according to one online seller. Just wanted to keep everyone here in the loop. LOL
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The Made in NYC stamp is a much more accurate way to date a creed. That wording was phased out during 1987 and early 1988. I've found that in Coach histories and verified it using known dates of the introduction of certain styles and am very sure it's correct. Whether or not words on a stamp were raised doesn't have any basis in fact AFAIK, whereas the NYC stamping changeover is a known date, not just a guess. I've never seen the "raised lettering" mentioned by any experienced authenticator.

The creed stamp with the raised "Coach" used in 1994 from the B plant (in the standard leather bags, NOT the Sonomas!) is probably a carryover from previous years and yet AFAIK the B plant was probably located in Miami, so that would bring the "rule" you mentioned into serious question.

There are a lot of rumors, misinformation and just plain BS on the internet, like the infamous YKK Myth and the "B on the frame hinge means it's a Bonnie Cashin style", and that sounds like one more drop in the slop bucket. Any idiot can "write" (i.e. Copy & Paste) a Guide and post it somewhere, and a lot of them do. I only believe what I can verify with my own eyes, I DON't put any faith in "he said she said" except when experienced collectors like several who have just added to this thread can back up their "rules" with solid DATE-ABLE proof. Otherwise it's the "YKK Bullshite" all over again, and look at how much trouble that BS has already caused.
 
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#21,528
RL Bernstein said:
. That's amusing. I wonder where they're all going?
The following is a reply by Lake Effect, not a quote of RL:
Well I figured RL, all of us vintage collectors here on the forum are collectively sucking them up like a Hoover vacuum. Lol lol I found it amusing too. Whenever I see that phrase in this seller' s listing, I swear I chuckle as I hear imaginary sirens going off. I think your response is spot on. Do a specific search of what you are looking for to find out how hard to get it is. I have been collecting and rehabbing a short time, with a modest number of bags that are more common. What I have found in looking at lots of listings over 6 months is that there is a constant ebb and flow. People buy, people sell, people donate. Repeat. I don't know, I guess I just find that kind of scarcity tact annoying. I found several NYC rehab babies cheap online and at a flea market. And I read this over and over on this forum. And people finding real beauties. Constantly. Maybe certain NYC bags are scarce, but to say they all are disappearing at an alarming rate?? I'm done. I welcome the insight of others doing this longer than I.
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#21,529
@Hyacinth @whateve
Thanks ladies. That is why I posted this here. I was beginning to believe what this seller (and others) said. And it occurred to me that I didn't recall reading anything in the suggested guides about the raised wording of 'Coach' in the creed after 'made in NYC' years and before '93 to signify that the bag was made in the NYC plant.
And that is why you ladies and this forum are invaluable. Because there is just so much BS and inaccuracy out there.
Thanks a bunch!
 
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#21,531
Lake Effect said:
@RL Bernstein
lol I inserted my answer in your quote. Just when I thought I had this posting thing down . . .
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Not a problem. I saw it and was amused. I thought that I was the only one who described what some of the newer "collectors" do as "Hoovering." We're obviously showing our age. Today I suppose it would have to be "Dysoning" or "Mieleing" to be understood.

As for the stories and myths propagated by sellers trying to represent their wares as other than they are, that's an age-old problem. In the world of COACH, if you're looking for MADE IN NEW YORK CITY USA, then the bag better say that (or be sourced to the later "A" plant).

My own pet peeve are all the Bonnie Cashin attributions (especially by those who can't even be bothered to spell her name correctly). If you're looking for a certifiable BC design, then either: make sure the bag is labelled as such; or an earlier produced version of it was labelled as such, or the design has been credited by an authoritative source such as the Bonnie Cashin Foundation. Otherwise, who knows who actually designed it. There're enough stories involving the Cahns and Cashin as it is to provide ample confusion.
 
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#21,532
Lol, showing our age. That's right!
I imagine it must be annoying at times for those of you with serious knowledge and experience to see incorrect style names being tossed around as well as Cashin's name. I know I get annoyed looking at some of these listings! I have been casually looking here n there for many years and for the last six months, in a more focused way. I swear, as a newbie, I feel like I have more correct info than some of these people doing it as a business.
 
#21,535
Lake Effect said:
Lol, showing our age. That's right!
I imagine it must be annoying at times for those of you with serious knowledge and experience to see incorrect style names being tossed around as well as Cashin's name. I know I get annoyed looking at some of these listings! I have been casually looking here n there for many years and for the last six months, in a more focused way. I swear, as a newbie, I feel like I have more correct info than some of these people doing it as a business.
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Yes! I hate when they call 9965 a trail bag. It is a Legacy small flap. The trail bag is 9955. Once one seller makes a mistake, it propagates, and it never goes away.
 
#21,536
More photos! At first I thought this bag looked ok but then I looked closer and the stitching on the hangtag looks very messy? I also own a Rogue and the stitching on the hangtag is perfect and tight, while the stitching on this bag looks somewhat sloppy and loose in a few places.
mmexport1491614722236.jpg mmexport1491614724832.jpg mmexport1491614727151.jpg mmexport1491614729531.jpg mmexport1491614732320.jpg mmexport1491614734486.jpg mmexport1491614736977.jpg
 
#21,538
nancyy92 said:
Here are more photos! Also forgot to mention that a friend of my colleague is selling this bag so it's an offline sale. Thank you!
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I'm no authenticator and I don't have a tea rose applique rogue bag; but I was surprised by the number of times that your bag is stamped "Coach" they barely missed a spot! Are most Rogue bags stamped "Coach" so heavily?

I found the completed ebay sale at the link below and it looks a lot like the bag you are asking about and something struck me as unusual - the style number on the price tag is 58840 but the number on the creed is 20315. That seems like a red flag to me; but Coach has been doing weird things with serial numbers lately so maybe not.

Attached is the photo that pops up in the Coach Drill Down for 58840 OLCHK; but I don't get any pictures for 20315. Hopefully the authenticators will be able to help you out, good luck!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/COACH-ROGUE-25-with-tea-rose-applique-STYLE-NO-58840-/201773312790?hash=item2efaa06b16:g:BUwAAOSwUKxYbblf&nma=true&si=AEGR3eMmJTa0MVv%2FjeFB7q2nAb4%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
 

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#21,539
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#21,540
katev said:
I found 2 different rogue bags on ebay with number 20315; so maybe it is just coach weirdness with the serial numbers? Or not?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-COACH-ROGUE-20315-BLACK-LEATHER-OLD-BRASS-/132151967851?hash=item1ec4df006b:g:sHUAAOSw3utY55Si

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-COACH-1941-RIVETS-ROGUE-25-GINGER-BROWN-Satchel-Handbag-20315-/162460009592?hash=item25d35f0478:g:JVcAAOSwXYtY2bIe
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The only style # I can read is the second one.....no way I can read the first one!
 
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