Authenticate This COACH - **see first post for format**

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IMPORTANT READ-ME

Please post authenticity questions related to COACH in this thread. No PMs please.
For further information, please refer to the first post on page 1 of this thread.

Please follow the following requests:
  • Before you submit a request for authentication, please search this thread to make sure that the item has not previously been authenticated by searching the seller ID and/or item number. This is not a thread to ask general questions about COACH, please refer to our main Coach forum for such information.
  • Note that authenticators have the right to refuse any requests. This is a free service, but it is imperative that you help our authenticators by using the following format:
  • FOR ITEMS LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Listing number:
    Seller and site where listed
    Link:
    Comments:

  • FOR ITEMS NOT LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Where purchased or how obtained
    Comments:
BASIC PICTURES REQUIRED (but more may be requested): If necessary pictures are in the listing, it's not necessary to upload and duplicate them.
  • Front of item
  • Back of item
  • Full clear and legible creed text and serial number
  • Made in tags (when available)
  • Measurements
  • For bags with turnlock closures, show pictures of back of female side of turnlock
  • For bags with magnetic snaps, show pictures of the male part of the snap so that the numbers and letters on it can be read
  • If applicable, search interior of bag and/or pockets for small white tag with production information and include a picture of that.
Thank you and be safe!
 
Hello everyone, I really want to clarify one thing. For the authenicity of the dinky and the people who question about the misspell on the story patch, please go into any local coach store near you or even call a store to have the people check on the patch. I have found the same problem on the floral dinky at 4 stores, spreading over the state. Yes, the seller has cheat on eBay, making the sale off site. However, it's the an agreement and mutual understanding between the buyer and seller before the transaction was done. It was a best offer deal, the seller did make a counteroffer to the buyer which was a bit higher than the price she offered to the buyer if she is willing to do it off site. The seller is completely fine going through eBay if the buyer is willing to pay the higher price. For god sake, why not just make a tiny effort to call and justify it rather than sitting here and accusing someone who is innocent as a liar ?
 
Hello everyone, I really want to clarify one thing. For the authenicity of the dinky and the people who question about the misspell on the story patch, please go into any local coach store near you or even call a store to have the people check on the patch. I have found the same problem on the floral dinky at 4 stores, spreading over the state. Yes, the seller has cheat on eBay, making the sale off site. However, it's the an agreement and mutual understanding between the buyer and seller before the transaction was done. It was a best offer deal, the seller did make a counteroffer to the buyer which was a bit higher than the price she offered to the buyer if she is willing to do it off site. The seller is completely fine going through eBay if the buyer is willing to pay the higher price. For god sake, why not just make a tiny effort to call and justify it rather than sitting here and accusing someone who is innocent as a liar ?
There are 2 things going on here. (I'll assume you're the seller but whether you are the seller or not is irrelevant. My responses would be the same to anyone.)

1. You say, "However, it's the an agreement and mutual understanding between the buyer and seller before the transaction was done."
Both the buyer and the seller were wrong to take the transaction off the site. It's been discussed in this case as well as ad nauseum on the eBay Forum. While both sides are wrong, it's the seller who is saving ebay fees by not going through the site. While it's true that both sides agreed to it, rationalizing doesn't make it any less wrong. Cheating is wrong -- PERIOD. And more often than not, transactions that are done "off-site" seem to have more issues than transactions done honestly.

But that's not the issue with the dinky bag.

2. You say: "why not just make a tiny effort to call and justify it rather than sitting here and accusing someone who is innocent as a liar ?"
No one called anyone a liar. I told the buyer that had she come here prior to buying, she'd have been advised against buying from kyyjamie because her listing didn't have the pictures necessary to prove that the bag the buyer would receive was authentic.

The seller was wrong in using stock images stolen from coach's website. And even if she used those pictures, she should have shown her own pictures of the actual item, including creed, made in tag, hardware, strap, stitching, etc., the details necessary to authenticate the bag.

Having never seen the bag in person and being unable to find any other listings for the same style with the right pictures, I had no way to determine whether Coach made the bag with a spelling error.

So not being able to authenticate it, I didn't call it fake but couldn't say it was authentic either. There are rare instances where we aren't able to authenticate an item and this was one of them.

And because of the mistake, it's not an item I recommend buying in the event that if the buyer ever tries to resell it, she might have problems with a buyer just as you did with your buyer.

But if you're saying that as VOLUNTEER authenticators on a forum where we get NO compensation and LOTS of BS, expecting us to "why not just make a tiny effort to call" is a bit entitled, don't you think? You expect ME to call Coach and ask about a spelling error on a bag YOU sold? And even if I called, how accurate is an answer if they aren't seeing the bag? In this case, I'm not even sure a professional authenticator could help with this bag at this time.

And as an aside, are you aware of how dangerous it is to call Coach and ask for an authentication over the phone? Let me give a hint: You'll get more wrong answers than correct ones.

 
Title: RARE ~ COACH Red Drawstring Flap Backpack Daypack Barrel Bag #9992 U.S.A.
Seller: dejavu_couture
Item number: 192150612819
Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-COACH-...k-Daypack-Barrel-Bag-9992-U-S-A-/192150612819

Comments: Unless Coach used more than one stamping machine, I'm questioning this listing. The font doesn't look right. (I see a couple of other potential problems too.

The serial font is wrong for the D plant in May 1999, below is a G9D- serial prefix that's still the claasic D plant font and with a genuine outlet stamp. Also a thumbnail of an E9D- prefix from a genuine Bleecker Basket.

ETA - As for the bag itself, I don't think the Handle Backpack was still being made in May 1999. The brass hardware holding the top handle should be D-RINGS, one side straight and the opposite side rounded, NOT the square-sided O-ring shown in the listing, see the 3rd photo for a genuine one, B7C-9992. And every one of these I've seen so far has been from 1997 or 1998 and came out of the C plant, not the D plant.


1999_D-plant-outlet-G9D-9303-a.jpg .

1999_D-plant-REAL-E9D-9302-a.jpg
 

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The serial font is wrong for the D plant in May 1999, below is a G9D- serial prefix that's still the claasic D plant font and with a genuine outlet stamp. Also a thumbnail of an E9D- prefix from a genuine Bleecker Basket.

As for the bag itself, I don't think the Handle Backpack was still being made in May 1999.


View attachment 3659413 .

View attachment 3659414
Thanks. I found a bunch of *9D creeds and none matched that bag! But I wanted to double check.
 
Yes I agree on what you said and I do think it wasn't right putting the sale off site. However, just want to clarify things out.
1) Seller did indicate in her listing details that please inbox for more info. Before the transaction was done, the buyer did ask for real pictures of the handbag. And seller did send multiple pictures of the actual bag to her via eBay message before the buyer made the decision of purchasing. The picture did show that the bag was in the original packaging and is completely brand new; still has the price tag, paper and the plastic bag.
2) Please put yourself into the seller shoes, yes, buyer has made mistake of using photo that is not taken by her on the listing. However, she did talk to the buyer privately and got her the photo of the actual bag, which the buyer has never mentioned in the forum. At first, when the buyer complained about the misspell, i would have thought that it was only a manufratuer defect. But the bag is 100% authentic,i informed the buyer that she could do an exchage from coach. Later on, when the buyer denied to exchange and insist on the bag was a knock off. I called the store in which I have purchased the bag ands see if I have purchased a fake bag from a local coach store. The SA of the local Seattle store verified with me that all the dinky and even the one with fringe has the misspell. I then called to the store at Utah and New York, just to confirm if it's a problem on every dinky that are currently display for sale. Looks what I got, same answer from 2 different stores at 2 different locations. Hence, I told the buyer that it is a manufacturer defect that coach has made for this whole series of handbag and garenteed the bag is authentic. I get that the buyer doesn't feel comfortable having a bag with a mistake on the storypatch. However, the seller did not do anything to trick her on buying anything, nor selling her a fake bag. If someone brought a handbag from you, and you know the bag is 100% authentic, but the buyer does not feel "comfortable" of taking the bag, will you be willing to take the return ? I mean on my listing it has clearly stated that NO returned is accepted.
3) I do aplogize for anything that have said offending you. No bad intention at all. But am really frustrated and upset about the whole situation. If I really do sell a knock off, I wouldn't be so upset and trying to stand for myself in this forum. I did learn a lesson now. never taking off an sale off site and certainly only using my own photos !
There are 2 things going on here. (I'll assume you're the seller but whether you are the seller or not is irrelevant. My responses would be the same to anyone.)

1. You say, "However, it's the an agreement and mutual understanding between the buyer and seller before the transaction was done."
Both the buyer and the seller were wrong to take the transaction off the site. It's been discussed in this case as well as ad nauseum on the eBay Forum. While both sides are wrong, it's the seller who is saving ebay fees by not going through the site. While it's true that both sides agreed to it, rationalizing doesn't make it any less wrong. Cheating is wrong -- PERIOD. And more often than not, transactions that are done "off-site" seem to have more issues than transactions done honestly.

But that's not the issue with the dinky bag.

2. You say: "why not just make a tiny effort to call and justify it rather than sitting here and accusing someone who is innocent as a liar ?"
No one called anyone a liar. I told the buyer that had she come here prior to buying, she'd have been advised against buying from kyyjamie because her listing didn't have the pictures necessary to prove that the bag the buyer would receive was authentic.

The seller was wrong in using stock images stolen from coach's website. And even if she used those pictures, she should have shown her own pictures of the actual item, including creed, made in tag, hardware, strap, stitching, etc., the details necessary to authenticate the bag.

Having never seen the bag in person and being unable to find any other listings for the same style with the right pictures, I had no way to determine whether Coach made the bag with a spelling error.

So not being able to authenticate it, I didn't call it fake but couldn't say it was authentic either. There are rare instances where we aren't able to authenticate an item and this was one of them.

And because of the mistake, it's not an item I recommend buying in the event that if the buyer ever tries to resell it, she might have problems with a buyer just as you did with your buyer.

But if you're saying that as VOLUNTEER authenticators on a forum where we get NO compensation and LOTS of BS, expecting us to "why not just make a tiny effort to call" is a bit entitled, don't you think? You expect ME to call Coach and ask about a spelling error on a bag YOU sold? And even if I called, how accurate is an answer if they aren't seeing the bag? In this case, I'm not even sure a professional authenticator could help with this bag at this time.

And as an aside, are you aware of how dangerous it is to call Coach and ask for an authentication over the phone? Let me give a hint: You'll get more wrong answers than correct ones.
,
 
I have also sent out these photos to the buyer after confirming with my sa in Seattle. The sa took a photo of a dinky from her store which has shown the same problem on the patch.
 

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Yes I agree on what you said and I do think it wasn't right putting the sale off site. However, just want to clarify things out.
1) Seller did indicate in her listing details that please inbox for more info. Before the transaction was done, the buyer did ask for real pictures of the handbag. And seller did send multiple pictures of the actual bag to her via eBay message before the buyer made the decision of purchasing. The picture did show that the bag was in the original packaging and is completely brand new; still has the price tag, paper and the plastic bag.
Keep in mind that on this site, most of the brand authenticators require ACTIVE listings to be authenticated. They won't look at completed listings, sold listings, items from from thrift stores or consignment stores, and won't talk to sellers. Most of the authenticators are very strict. Some authenticators even require those requesting a free authentication to have a minumum number of posts and participation before they'll help with authentications. (And because they're volunteers, they can make their own rules, ignore posts or members if desired and aren't required to follow any "rules" regarding authentications.)

Here on Coach (and the other brands I personally do), we are very lenient because we want to help both buyers and sellers. We don't want buyers to get fakes, sellers to list fakes and even defend buyers or sellers who wrongly accuse the other of wrongdoing.

So when a listing is posted, most authenticators want to see the pictures of the item in the listing. We aren't privy to the emails exchanged between buyer and seller and it's to everyone's benefit when the listing shows everything that's necessary for the buyer to make an informed purchase and for a seller to defend herself in the event of a dispute.

As for pictures sent to the buyer that you say did show that the bag was in the original packaging and is completely brand new; still has the price tag, paper and the plastic bag, that doesn't prove anything. It's the details of the bag itself that prove or disprove authenticity.

Tags, paper, plastic bags and even receipts don't prove anything. Genuine props only show that a genuine item was purchased at some point. But dishonest sellers often use genuine receipts to prove authenticity of their fakes.

Additionally, all those props you mentioned can be faked. There are websites where you can buy receipts with custom dates, prices and whatever other "proofs" you need.
2) Please put yourself into the seller shoes, yes, buyer has made mistake of using photo that is not taken by her on the listing. However, she did talk to the buyer privately and got her the photo of the actual bag, which the buyer has never mentioned in the forum. At first, when the buyer complained about the misspell, i would have thought that it was only a manufratuer defect. But the bag is 100% authentic,i informed the buyer that she could do an exchage from coach. Later on, when the buyer denied to exchange and insist on the bag was a knock off. I called the store in which I have purchased the bag ands see if I have purchased a fake bag from a local coach store. The SA of the local Seattle store verified with me that all the dinky and even the one with fringe has the misspell. I then called to the store at Utah and New York, just to confirm if it's a problem on every dinky that are currently display for sale. Looks what I got, same answer from 2 different stores at 2 different locations. Hence, I told the buyer that it is a manufacturer defect that coach has made for this whole series of handbag and garenteed the bag is authentic. I get that the buyer doesn't feel comfortable having a bag with a mistake on the storypatch. However, the seller did not do anything to trick her on buying anything, nor selling her a fake bag. If someone brought a handbag from you, and you know the bag is 100% authentic, but the buyer does not feel "comfortable" of taking the bag, will you be willing to take the return ? I mean on my listing it has clearly stated that NO returned is accepted.
I certainly have no problem with putting myself in your shoes because I'm a seller and I'd venture to guess that any seller who sells enough will be in the same position. It might be a buyer with remorse, it might be a buyer who doesn't like the color in real life, it might be a buyer who believes she got a fake. And for whatever reason, the buyer wants to return the item.

Most good sellers who encounter an unhappy buyer want to do what it takes to make that buyer happy. Sometimes it just takes reassuring the buyer about the authenticity and sometimes it takes accepting a return even if you don't want to take it.

In this case, I would absolutely take the return and in fact, I'd probably return the bag to the store because with the misspelling on the creed, it's too chancey to take a chance on selling it. (And in fact, that's exactly what I told your buyer at some point. I told her if she likes the bag, she can keep it but I didn't recommend reselling it when she tired of it because a misspelling on a creed it a difficult thing to prove as legitimate.)

3) I do aplogize for anything that have said offending you. No bad intention at all. But am really frustrated and upset about the whole situation. If I really do sell a knock off, I wouldn't be so upset and trying to stand for myself in this forum. I did learn a lesson now. never taking off an sale off site and certainly only using my own photos !
As for using your own photos, you might want to start with taking your own pictures of the Air Jordan sneakers. After having gone through this mess, I would have thought you'd have ended that listing days ago and relisted with your pictures of the actual shoes!

Keep in mind that Air Jordan (Nike, Adidas and others) are adamantly against infringement of their images and if they do a VeRO takedown of your listing with stock pics, you might get a temporary ban from selling.

This is another case of selling a highly faked item so not only can a buyer know what they're getting but they can't see the soles and if there's wear, can't see the markings to have them authenticated, and with stock images, a buyer doesn't know whether you really have the item in your possession or if you're dropshipping from a counterfeiter in China!

As much as ebay will have you believe that selling is easy, it's not. It's a lot of work and with every listing and every sale, you learn something new about being a better seller.
 
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I have also sent out these photos to the buyer after confirming with my sa in Seattle. The sa took a photo of a dinky from her store which has shown the same problem on the patch.
As I've said several times, there's nothing that screams fake about the bag and although I now believe it's probably authentic, as an authenticator, I would recommend against (buyers) buying the bag as well as recommending against sellers purchasing for resale a bag with that type of error.
 
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