Ashley Graham - "plus sized" Sports Illustrated cover

[Grace123]

That may be so, but I have seen the tiniest women get pregnant and give birth. Fertility comes in all shapes and sizes, yes ma'am.

Yeah I know. I'm just thinking of what fertility looks like in a perfect world.

 

[Charles]

And if you paid even a small amount of attention to what Ashley does portray - she talks about eating healthily, her workout routine and so on. 1/3 of her Instagram pics are her at the gym - so it looks like you are the one assuming she doesn't exercise or eat healthfully. Yet she is still overweight.

The problem in America is we give a free pass on actually acting healthy if you look the "right" way, instead of actually focusing on making sure healthy behaviors are a part or everyone's life no matter what they look like!

If you'd pay attention to what I'm saying, I'm also saying that some models that are thin and look "right" are unhealthy too.
Saying and doing are two different things. She might attempt to eat healthy, but she's still overweight. It has nothing to do with looking a right way. Overweight is overweight is overweight. You can't be overweight and healthy.
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-39936138
If in two months she's lost weight, I'll be the first to support her and her journey.

I'd love for us to get to the point where models can just say I'm fat and idgaf like models who smoke and dgaf and that's the end of it.

Plenty celebs do, but I feel that when you're in the public eye, part of you taking that job is attempting to put forth a positive image. How many celebs do we criticize daily in this forum cause they do something we don't agree with?? This forum is chock full of posters who GAF about what celebs do. So which is it? If we expect celebs to not GAF about what they do, why do we care so much?

If people in the public eye are automatically role models, I think there's a problem. People in the public eye have all the same issues that "average" people have - they struggle with their weight, or substance abuse, or relationship issues or politics or domestic abuse or any number of other things. What we need to tell our daughters and sons is not that these are the people they ought to look up to, but that they are individuals in the same way everyone else is: some are worthy of respect and admiration and many are not. Which ones are which are obviously up to the parent and/or individual to decide.

No matter what you tell your children, sometimes they're going to admire and immolate people in the public eye.

Ashley is an advertising tool, just the same as thinner models. She is used to advertise to women and men who want to see a representation of themselves, and to sell a certain size clothing. She isn't a role model and didn't sign up to be one, just like athletes signed up to play the sport and get paid, not to be someone for your kids to look up to. These are real people with real struggles, and in the end it is often all about the paycheck for them much like it often is for people who are not in the public eye.

I'm aware of that, and I also think it matters WHY you're in the public eye. If you're an actor, you're being paid to sell media based on your acting talent. If you're a athlete, you're paid for your physical talent and to draw a crowd. If you're a model, you're paid to sell clothes and products specifically on how your face and your body look. She specifically is being aggressively pushed forward, being asked about her lifestyle and feelings on being overweight and she's accepting that push. There's a difference between Ashley and other plus sized models. They're being used to sell clothes for a certain demographic. Ashley is being used to sell a way of life.
I disagree about not being a role model, however. If you sign up to be in the public eye, you have a responsibility, on some level, to put forth a specific image for your employers. Hell, I'm not even in the public eye, but if I post something racist on social media, my employer can fire me cause I'm a "role model" for their brand.

If we feel our kids are idolizing someone in the public eye, we have the responsibility to talk with them and discuss it. I cannot condone the idea of transferring that responsibility to every model, every athlete, every actor, every comedian, etc. We cannot expect those people to be any more perfect or worthy of respect and copy-catting than anyone else, and we need to stop pretending that what our kids think is more their responsibility than our own as parents.

Oh geez. I'm not expecting perfection. I'm expecting her to simply try to work towards being a more healthy weight and encouraging people to do the same. I don't think that's too much to ask. If she's currently doing that, awesome, but over the past 3 months, I haven't noticed any difference in her appearance.

 

[horse17]

I know what you are saying, and I agree...to a point....everyone is different in how we view a photo of a model...I always look to tall and more athletic women to see how they wear clothes..that's it....knowing they are similar to my body type, I could see different looks that I could try to pull off.............

I coul never relate to stick thin models, so I never thought about anything they wore or any potential messege they were sending...Ashley, while overweight, may be relatable to a lot of women who are insecure about their body type, and look to her to be accepted in wearing today's fashion.....which is a good thing.....its a tough call, because you don't want to send a messege that being overweight is what you should aspire to, but you also don't want to alienate girls/women that are too paranoid to wear current fashion...

 

[sdkitty]

If you'd pay attention to what I'm saying, I'm also saying that some models that are thin and look "right" are unhealthy too.
Saying and doing are two different things. She might attempt to eat healthy, but she's still overweight. It has nothing to do with looking a right way. Overweight is overweight is overweight. You can't be overweight and healthy.
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-39936138
If in two months she's lost weight, I'll be the first to support her and her journey.



Plenty celebs do, but I feel that when you're in the public eye, part of you taking that job is attempting to put forth a positive image. How many celebs do we criticize daily in this forum cause they do something we don't agree with?? This forum is chock full of posters who GAF about what celebs do. So which is it? If we expect celebs to not GAF about what they do, why do we care so much?



No matter what you tell your children, sometimes they're going to admire and immolate people in the public eye.



I'm aware of that, and I also think it matters WHY you're in the public eye. If you're an actor, you're being paid to sell media based on your acting talent. If you're a athlete, you're paid for your physical talent and to draw a crowd. If you're a model, you're paid to sell clothes and products specifically on how your face and your body look. She specifically is being aggressively pushed forward, being asked about her lifestyle and feelings on being overweight and she's accepting that push. There's a difference between Ashley and other plus sized models. They're being used to sell clothes for a certain demographic. Ashley is being used to sell a way of life.
I disagree about not being a role model, however. If you sign up to be in the public eye, you have a responsibility, on some level, to put forth a specific image for your employers. Hell, I'm not even in the public eye, but if I post something racist on social media, my employer can fire me cause I'm a "role model" for their brand.



Oh geez. I'm not expecting perfection. I'm expecting her to simply try to work towards being a more healthy weight and encouraging people to do the same. I don't think that's too much to ask. If she's currently doing that, awesome, but over the past 3 months, I haven't noticed any difference in her appearance.

Maybe it's white flag time Charles

 

[Singra]

^ There's no white flag in mansplaining ;P

I know what you are saying, and I agree...to a point....everyone is different in how we view a photo of a model...I always look to tall and more athletic women to see how they wear clothes..that's it....knowing they are similar to my body type, I could see different looks that I could try to pull off.............

I coul never relate to stick thin models, so I never thought about anything they wore or any potential messege they were sending...Ashley, while overweight, may be relatable to a lot of women who are insecure about their body type, and look to her to be accepted in wearing today's fashion.....which is a good thing.....its a tough call, because you don't want to send a messege that being overweight is what you should aspire to, but you also don't want to alienate girls/women that are too paranoid to wear current fashion...

Completely agree. And there are studies that show the better people feel about their body the more likely they are to maintain a healthy body weight and it is a reality that Graham represents the average weight of the "ordinary" person more than other models. Of course if Graham were to become the aspirational norm that would be as unacceptable as the parade of super skinny models.

I don't think you ever hit the sweet spot, you just have a wide a range of size and shapes as possible and then you keep trumpeting the best information science has to offer and try block out as much advertising as possible. The truth is also that all the body positive images that are getting pumped into the airwaves only go so far in helping solve a very complex problem. The fact that so many people are overweight has more to do with quality of food and socio-economic conditions... "body positive" images are only going to do so much.

I
I'm aware of that, and I also think it matters WHY you're in the public eye. If you're an actor, you're being paid to sell media based on your acting talent. If you're a athlete, you're paid for your physical talent and to draw a crowd. If you're a model, you're paid to sell clothes and products specifically on how your face and your body look. She specifically is being aggressively pushed forward, being asked about her lifestyle and feelings on being overweight and she's accepting that push. There's a difference between Ashley and other plus sized models. They're being used to sell clothes for a certain demographic. Ashley is being used to sell a way of life.
I disagree about not being a role model, however. If you sign up to be in the public eye, you have a responsibility, on some level, to put forth a specific image for your employers. Hell, I'm not even in the public eye, but if I post something racist on social media, my employer can fire me cause I'm a "role model" for their brand.

I agree and I agree that is matters why you're in the public eye however good luck to the person who has to navigate a career and be a good role model. Being a good role model is very much determined by the current moment/mood and I think a lot of people, particularly people at a certain point in the fame scale, are very good at delivering what the culture demands in that moment.

It's funny to me how many comedians have just written a book or are just about to come out with a book. Misty Copeland can't just be a ballet dancer... she's got to have written a book, curated her own fashion range, endorsed numerous "body positive" products. At the very least models have to be models/actresses or actors, the more ambitious reach a bit further. Emily Ratajkowski can't just be a model, she's an model, designer, activist. Ashley Graham... Model... check, author.. check, designer... check, activist.... check.

It's not about body size/shape it's more about the current cultural landscape and the current business landscape. On the cultural side lots of things are shifting in ways that make it important for people to stand for something and on the business side an agent's or manager's client has to have their fingers in many more pies than in previous generations. These days people aren't paid to simply be good in their chosen area of expertise you've got to be a multi-hyphenate and preferably a multi-hyphenate generating profit in as many sectors as possible. If you want to reach the top you've got to have a good brand story, the more interesting and "important" that story is the more you differentiate yourself from the pack and the more marketable you are.

Is the individual celeb to blame for the hypocrisy or inaccuracies that arise in their brand messaging? I suppose in a way they are because they are the ones responsible for their brand but I can also see how it's the easiest thing in the world to go along with things... particularly when it feels like you're doing something perceived to be good and right now a large enough number of people think Graham is doing a good job. She's necessary in a way she probably won't be in the future.

I dunno... as per usual I'm just rambling... ultimately I think part of the problem is that we live in a world that is in consumerist overdrive and how can you be a good role model in a world that is freakishly twisted by business/consumerist interests?

 

[sdkitty]

^ There's no white flag in mansplaining ;P
well IMO if he wants to be on here communicating with a bunch of women, he needs to understand when he's way outnumbered or offending people sometimes. This is coming from a woman who doesn't totally disagree with him. But clearly he's losing this argument.


Completely agree. And there are studies that show the better people feel about their body the more likely they are to maintain a healthy body weight and it is a reality that Graham represents the average weight of the "ordinary" person more than other models. Of course if Graham were to become the aspirational norm that would be as unacceptable as the parade of super skinny models.

I don't think you ever hit the sweet spot, you just have a wide a range of size and shapes as possible and then you keep trumpeting the best information science has to offer and try block out as much advertising as possible. The truth is also that all the body positive images that are getting pumped into the airwaves only go so far in helping solve a very complex problem. The fact that so many people are overweight has more to do with quality of food and socio-economic conditions... "body positive" images are only going to do so much.




I agree and I agree that is matters why you're in the public eye however good luck to the person who has to navigate a career and be a good role model. Being a good role model is very much determined by the current moment/mood and I think a lot of people, particularly people at a certain point in the fame scale, are very good at delivering what the culture demands in that moment.

It's funny to me how many comedians have just written a book or are just about to come out with a book. Misty Copeland can't just be a ballet dancer... she's got to have written a book, curated her own fashion range, endorsed numerous "body positive" products. At the very least models have to be models/actresses or actors, the more ambitious reach a bit further. Emily Ratajkowski can't just be a model, she's an model, designer, activist. Ashley Graham... Model... check, author.. check, designer... check, activist.... check.

It's not about body size/shape it's more about the current cultural landscape and the current business landscape. On the cultural side lots of things are shifting in ways that make it important for people to stand for something and on the business side an agent's or manager's client has to have their fingers in many more pies than in previous generations. These days people aren't paid to simply be good in their chosen area of expertise you've got to be a multi-hyphenate and preferably a multi-hyphenate generating profit in as many sectors as possible. If you want to reach the top you've got to have a good brand story, the more interesting and "important" that story is the more you differentiate yourself from the pack and the more marketable you are.

Is the individual celeb to blame for the hypocrisy or inaccuracies that arise in their brand messaging? I suppose in a way they are because they are the ones responsible for their brand but I can also see how it's the easiest thing in the world to go along with things... particularly when it feels like you're doing something perceived to be good and right now a large enough number of people think Graham is doing a good job. She's necessary in a way she probably won't be in the future.

I dunno... as per usual I'm just rambling... ultimately I think part of the problem is that we live in a world that is in consumerist overdrive and how can you be a good role model in a world that is freakishly twisted by business/consumerist interests?

 

[berrydiva]

^ There's no white flag in mansplaining ;P

This!

 

[kkfiregirl]

Maybe it's white flag time Charles

Yes ma'am - I couldn't agree more. Just give up the argument, you are not going to 'win' or convince anyone.

 

[Grace123]

And besides you won't want to waste your time trying to explain why every woman needs to 'real' model thin when it's possible that Amber Heard will break up with her latest billionaire. [emoji1]

 

[berrydiva]

Yes ma'am - I couldn't agree more. Just give up the argument, you are not going to 'win' or convince anyone.

I don't think the goal is to win or convince anyone but to tell a bunch of women what they should think/feel about Ashley. Their own personal experiences as women be damned because obviously as a man, there's a better understanding of how to woman more than women.

 

[sdkitty]

I don't think the goal is to win or convince anyone but to tell a bunch of women what they should think/feel about Ashley. Their own personal experiences as women be damned because obviously as a man, there's a better understanding of how to woman more than women.

I don't know what his goal is but he's clearly not persuading anyone and is pissing people off. Sometimes you just have to throw in the towel even if it's just to say let's agree to disagree.

 

[kkfiregirl]

I don't know what his goal is but he's clearly not persuading anyone and is pissing people off. Sometimes you just have to throw in the towel even if it's just to say let's agree to disagree.

agree.

 

[guccimamma]

good god, what is going in in here?

so you don't like the way she looks, i get it.

nobody needs to write an 5 paragraph essay about it.

 

[terebina786]

Lol @ mansplaining.. that's exactly what it is.

 

[Rouge H]

Ashley is going to be on ABC's Friday nights segment of "What would you do" as she observes and reactes to a scenario a couple insult their son's overweight girlfriend.