Ashley Graham - "plus sized" Sports Illustrated cover

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#361
sdkitty said:
IDK about that
some men are pretty critical
My DH is. If we see a woman who we haven't seen for a while and she's put on weight, he's the first to notice and estimate how much. "She's gained 30 lbs!"
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I don't think that's necessarily critical. I might say something similar but more as an observation and being surprised. The same if a woman lost 30lbs or got a boob job or was wearing a great looking outfit. If he would have said "Wow, Betty turned into a fat ass...gross!" That's different. I also think there's a difference between "I don't find that cut attractive on her" and "That suit makes her look like a cow".
Look, we all should have a right to an opinion, the issue comes when we try to use those opinions to shame and control. Ashley can wear whatever the eff she wants. If she enjoys wearing those thongs, more power to her. I personally think some of her choices don't look good on her, and that's fine too. I don't think any less of her as a person for wearing ill fitting clothing. As I've stated before, my issue isn't really with her, it's the media trying to push her and also trying to push ultra thin models.
 
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#362
Charles said:
I don't think that's necessarily critical. I might say something similar but more as an observation and being surprised. The same if a woman lost 30lbs or got a boob job or was wearing a great looking outfit. If he would have said "Wow, Betty turned into a fat ass...gross!" That's different. I also think there's a difference between "I don't find that cut attractive on her" and "That suit makes her look like a cow".
Look, we all should have a right to an opinion, the issue comes when we try to use those opinions to shame and control. Ashley can wear whatever the eff she wants. If she enjoys wearing those thongs, more power to her. I personally think some of her choices don't look good on her, and that's fine too. I don't think any less of her as a person for wearing ill fitting clothing. As I've stated before, my issue isn't really with her, it's the media trying to push her and also trying to push ultra thin models.
Click to expand...
just to respond to your examples and whether they pertain in my DH's case - when he says "wow, she put on at least 30 lbs," I know it's not a compliment. but no, he doesn't name-call as in saying she's a cow. Still he's more likely than me to jump to a number like 30 lbs, whereas I might say yes, she's not as thin as she was when we saw her months ago. So I think he's more critical but not a pig about it.
As far as Ashley I guess I'll just say I think she looks better in clothes than a bathing suit
 
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#363
berrydiva said:
I didn't suggest men aren't critical....I'm suggesting that from, my experience, women are far more critical and we do it so often that it's almost second nature to us. A woman walking down the street without a bra doesn't draw the same level of criticism from a man as it does a woman. A woman breastfeeding in public is less bothersome to men than it is to women. Obviously, I'm making general observations...maybe my post wasn't clear....dunno.
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Yeah but isn't that because women are freer to speak in your presence? How do you know men aren't saying the similar things between their friends? There's a certain etiquette that men usually follow in the presence of women... no? I do agree to a certain extent that women are more critical but that's because there's so much already geared to talking about a female body but I don't think women are inherently more critical than men.

There's definitely more societal weight placed on a woman's appearance and much more constant public discussion that is focused on the minutiae of a women's body but men have a different gender parameters when it comes to their bodies and they aren't shamed or bullied in the same way.... Try being small and skinny and male, one of my brothers was very small for most of his teens (he only got a significant growth spurt when he was 19) and was picked on relentlessly... not to mention every girl thought he was just soooooo cute. It probably doesn't sound like much but man I can see how those experiences rewired his personality and not necessarily for the good.

Also do women have a problem with public breastfeeding? I didn't know this, I see it all the time in public and I've never heard a woman express distain for it. The other day I saw a woman walking with a child attached to her breast as she was walking through the mall and no-one batted an eye... now that's multitasking. For many places int eh world it's not a big thing at all.
 
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#364
Singra said:
Yeah but isn't that because women are freer to speak in your presence? How do you know men aren't saying the similar things between their friends? There's a certain etiquette that men usually follow in the presence of women... no?
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I can't speak to other's experiences nor do I think mine is special or all encompassing. In my experince, I don't find men to subscribe to that etiquette simply because of the amount of time I spend with men. After years of spending every football sunday (all day), monday and thursday, playoffs saturdays, etc with men, strip club events with male coworkers, car shows/car modification events and the general debauchery/f*ckery/activities* I find myself in where it's mostly men due to my interest, I have found that eventually they forget you're a woman...especially if you're not their woman or related to their woman, and speak reckless around you and don't limit themselves much. I've met more mistresses, sidepieces, etc than I'd care to know and then have to play the "bro-code" role when the wife/gf makes a rare appearance with him. The lies I've heard them say to their wives/girlfriends on the phone. I've found that men don't much care if they can trust you and you don't lecture them about what they're saying. I'm not naive enough to believe I fully relate to a man as another man would...so I'm sure there's more said I'm not privy to.

And, I will say I tend to shut women I know down who speak in a negative way about other women. For example, was out for drinks with a few friends...a handsome man walked in w/a woman....he was one of those guys you briefly wonder how you can make the affair work lol...and a friend started negatively criticizing the woman's appearance who with the guy. I immediately shut it down. I have little patience for it IRL.

Also do women have a problem with public breastfeeding? I didn't know this, I see it all the time in public and I've never heard a woman express distain for it. The other day I saw a woman walking with a child attached to her breast as she was walking through the mall and no-one batted an eye... now that's multitasking. For many places int eh world it's not a big thing at all.
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While I was born here, I didn't come back to live in America until I was an early teen so like you I didn't think breastfeeding was a big deal....saw people do it kind of regardless who was around. However, it's a thing. lol.

ETA: before it's mentioned...obviously I'm not saying every single one of these men are scumbags and dishonest.
 
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#365
The media largely presents thin-ness, large-ness or fitness in a distortion field... no? I can't tell you how many times I've seen a model in shape or some other fitness magazine and wondered what they were taking to achieve their shape. There is no way some of them can have the muscle mass they do and not be on something. We all know the deal with thin models so I think I can skip to plus size models... on this thread there were quite a few comments about how Graham looked like a large thin person. Graham is a beautiful person who has every right to be a model, she's got great proportions but in some ways she doesn't really represent overweight people or the struggle people have in finding good clothes. Finding something to wear isn't only about weight, you might be the same dress size as Graham but the weight on your body will likely not be distributed in the same way. In a way she's airbrushed before they get around to airbrushing her... which I suppose is the definition of a model. In that way I think actresses or performers who aren't model proportions are perhaps a better models for thin, medium sized and overweight people.

I'm not a big person but I can't tell you how many times I've found it difficult to find clothing that fits properly. If it fits in the hips it's gaping in the waist, if it fits in the waist I can't get it past my hips and so on. I feel like this venn diagram pretty much sums up the shopping experience for most people who aren't the same height and proportion of the models...

choice.jpg



Charles said:
I don't think that's necessarily critical. I might say something similar but more as an observation and being surprised. The same if a woman lost 30lbs or got a boob job or was wearing a great looking outfit. If he would have said "Wow, Betty turned into a fat ass...gross!" That's different. I also think there's a difference between "I don't find that cut attractive on her" and "That suit makes her look like a cow".
Look, we all should have a right to an opinion, the issue comes when we try to use those opinions to shame and control. Ashley can wear whatever the eff she wants. If she enjoys wearing those thongs, more power to her. I personally think some of her choices don't look good on her, and that's fine too. I don't think any less of her as a person for wearing ill fitting clothing. As I've stated before, my issue isn't really with her, it's the media trying to push her and also trying to push ultra thin models.
Click to expand...
What's your issue with the media pushing those sides of the spectrum?
 
#366
Singra said:
Yeah but isn't that because women are freer to speak in your presence? How do you know men aren't saying the similar things between their friends? There's a certain etiquette that men usually follow in the presence of women... no? I do agree to a certain extent that women are more critical but that's because there's so much already geared to talking about a female body but I don't think women are inherently more critical than men.

There's definitely more societal weight placed on a woman's appearance and much more constant public discussion that is focused on the minutiae of a women's body but men have a different gender parameters when it comes to their bodies and they aren't shamed or bullied in the same way.... Try being small and skinny and male, one of my brothers was very small for most of his teens (he only got a significant growth spurt when he was 19) and was picked on relentlessly... not to mention every girl thought he was just soooooo cute. It probably doesn't sound like much but man I can see how those experiences rewired his personality and not necessarily for the good.

Also do women have a problem with public breastfeeding? I didn't know this, I see it all the time in public and I've never heard a woman express distain for it. The other day I saw a woman walking with a child attached to her breast as she was walking through the mall and no-one batted an eye... now that's multitasking. For many places int eh world it's not a big thing at all.
Click to expand...

With respect to the breastfeeding thing, I'll have to agree with miss berry.

I'm still breastfeeding my 16 month old & both grandmas have a negative opinion on it. As to the grandpas? Don't give a shyt & haven't said anything to my husband about it.

Once I had to breastfeed my son without a cover (months ago when he was still at the 'appropriate' age for nursing & I got many side-eyes & dirty looks from women, most men just went about their day or quickly glanced away sheepishly.

I will admit though that there's a racial element to it. The only women (who I didn't know) who have ever said anything negative to me about my breastfeeding have been black women. I found that to be the most interesting, but now I'm off topic [emoji14]
 
#367
berrydiva said:
I can't speak to other's experiences nor do I think mine is special or all encompassing. In my experince, I don't find men to subscribe to that etiquette simply because of the amount of time I spend with men. After years of spending every football sunday (all day), monday and thursday, playoffs saturdays, etc with men, strip club events with male coworkers and the general debauchery/f*ckery/activities I find myself in where it's mostly men due to my interest, I have found that eventually they forget you're a woman...especially if you're not their woman or related to their woman, and speak reckless around you and don't limit themselves much. I've met more mistresses, sidepieces, etc than I'd care to know and then have to play the "bro-code" role when the wife/gf makes a rare appearance with him. The lies I've heard them say to their wives/girlfriends on the phone. I've found that men don't much care if they can trust you and you don't lecture them about what they're saying. I'm not naive enough to believe I fully relate to a man as another man would...so I'm sure there's more said I'm not privy to.
Click to expand...

I'm really not trying to be a dick about this, but maybe it's time you surround yourself with new male friends. I'm into football (Go Noles/Jags!), sports, hit the strip club a few times a year, into cars and motorcycles and none of the people I associate with act like that. Also, as a man, I sure as f*ck would lecture my acquaintances/friends, and have, if they act like that.

Wanna join my fantasy league?

Singra said:
What's your issue with the media pushing those sides of the spectrum?
Click to expand...

I mentioned it before. I think it's pushing an unhealthy lifestyle on both ends.
 
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#369
sdkitty said:
just to respond to your examples and whether they pertain in my DH's case - when he says "wow, she put on at least 30 lbs," I know it's not a compliment. but no, he doesn't name-call as in saying she's a cow. Still he's more likely than me to jump to a number like 30 lbs, whereas I might say yes, she's not as thin as she was when we saw her months ago. So I think he's more critical but not a pig about it.
As far as Ashley I guess I'll just say I think she looks better in clothes than a bathing suit
Click to expand...

Does he do the same if you put on weight?
 
#370
She is known for being a body-image activist and a role model for women of all shapes and sizes.

And Ashley Graham showed just why she's taken on that responsibility.

The 29-year-old model looked fantastic as she shot photos for her next swimwear range Tuesday in Los Angeles.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ceous-figure-floral-bikini.html#ixzz4cCeLBNYS

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3E91C16400000578-4343864-Stunning_The_29_year_old_model_flaunted_her_curvaceous_figure_in-a-1_1490306954989.jpg
 
#371
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