Are leather handcrafted bags considered "fake Birkins" or not?

[acrowcounted]

But it's ok, I'm ignorant and I want to educate myself.

So, please, instead of being rude and bullying me, why don't you explain to me why Birkin and Kellys are not on the Hermes' website, with their price, colors, and something like "NOT AVAILABLE" or "ONLY AVAILABLE IN STORE / FIND IT IN STORE", just like any other item?

If I write "Birkin" on the search bar of the Hermes' website (Italian version) and it shows me 5 "bikini" and a ring. Where is the Birkin bag on the Hermes website?

What does any of this have to do with fake birkins?

 

[880]

Really wow,

OP, perhaps you should consider your own tone before accusing others.

Many luxury brands like chanel and Hermes do not put their top merchandise to be sold on line.
It is considered to be the antithesis of luxury

IMO, threads like this, that have degenerated in accusations of bullying where a simple difference of opinion has been met with disdain and bullying etc should be shut down.

 

[redwings]

I have not experienced anything, I was just making an example of --> " Those bags are available for sale only when someone gets an offer" and they're not on sale just because they're there in the store and you can see them and choose one of them. -_-

But it's ok, I'm ignorant and I want to educate myself.

A lot of posters are trying to educate you but it seems that you are not taking it in.

So, please, instead of being rude and bullying me, why don't you explain to me why Birkin and Kellys are not on the Hermes' website, with their price, colors, and something like "NOT AVAILABLE" or "ONLY AVAILABLE IN STORE / FIND IT IN STORE", just like any other item?

Might want to ask Chanel/Goyard/Joseph Duclos and other luxury houses why they don’t want to sell their bags online. A business decides what it wants to do or not do with its bag.

You are welcome to buy whatever is online.

If I write "Birkin" on the search bar of the Hermes' website, it shows me 5 "bikini" and a ring. Where is the Birkin bag on the Hermes website?

If I try to search on LV for the exclusive ostrich gradient coloured bag they are offering to me in-store, it isn’t there. Likewise a pair of Dior boots I pre-ordered in the prelaunch, not on the website too.

 

[periogirl28]

I'm not exactly sure where this thread is heading.

 

[cerulean blue]

It’s not a feeling. Just giving a view of how the law in different jurisdictions are exercised in regards to trademarks, patents and copyrights.

The French authorities under their law, can confiscate and destroy that leathercraft birkin on the spot when it comes under their attention and IF they view it as a counterfeit.

A view which is very much open to debate in court... The decisions upheld in Japanese courts regarding the trademark of the Birkin may not be upheld in Chinese or U.S courts or could be argued unsuccessfully un E.U courts. I think (need to revisit) the major reason why Japanese courts sided with Hermes is because there was not enough done to create a concrete distinction between their product and Hermes especially with the circumstances of the secondhand market regarding Hermes birkins.

The fashion industry has been critical of laws being NOT stringent enough to protect designers in matters like these.

 

[allanrvj]

I have not experienced anything, I was just making an example of --> " Those bags are available for sale only when someone gets an offer" and they're not on sale just because they're there in the store and you can see them and choose one of them. -_-

But it's ok, I'm ignorant and I want to educate myself.

So, please, instead of being rude and bullying me, why don't you explain to me why Birkin and Kellys are not on the Hermes' website, with their price, colors, and something like "NOT AVAILABLE" or "ONLY AVAILABLE IN STORE / FIND IT IN STORE", just like any other item?

If I write "Birkin" on the search bar of the Hermes' website (Italian version) and it shows me 5 "bikini" and a ring. Where is the Birkin bag on the Hermes website?

Who is being rude? Am I being rude? Was I bullying you?
You're the one who keeps on starting threads and being angry at how Hermès does things and you get all defensive when people explain stuff to you.

Educate yourself. It's not anyone's responsibility.

 

[jblended]

I was curious because I have recently found one of these fake birkins (in orange) ina flea market for 15€ and I also know of shops in Forence where they sell leather goods handmade, and where they offer, on their catalogue, bags that look exactly like a Kelly or a Birkin, for around 200-300€ of the colour you want in 20-30 days.

These are two very different examples. A flea market bag at that price (15€) is plastic and mass-produced. The handmade leather bag is hard work to craft and is, by the way you are describing it, a bespoke leather product.

Some of these bags are basically Birkin replicas, even if there's no "Hermes" tag, and I was wondering why they are not (or if they should be) considered fake Birkins.

If there is no Hermes branding, then it is not a replica. It is merely a bag that looks like another bag. "Inspired" bags are not the same as "replica" bags. Most flap bags/ camera bags/ feed bags look the same as each other. The ethics question comes into play when working conditions or material sourcing is problematic.

but shouldn't them be banned? I think if you try to sell one of those online, not using the Hermes name, they (I'm talking about websites that sell vintage non-luxury bags) won't allow you to do that...

You cannot ban artisans from producing their goods and trading in them. What they are doing is not illegal. Bag patterns are available everywhere, and many of them are similar to the Birkin. If someone legally purchases a pattern for this style of bag, then they have not broken the law. They are free to use the pattern they paid for to produce bags and cannot be banned from selling their creations.
Although, as others have mentioned, trademarks in some countries mean that you cannot use such patterns because it infringes on Hermes' rights. Then it is actually illegal and will be punishable.

I meant that those bags are on sale ONLY when they're offered to a specific client, and NOT before, not after, not when they are available in store or locked up in private rooms of the store. They're on sale when they are offered to a client.

I get what you're saying. A Birkin is not an off-the-rack item that is available anywhere, anytime, for anyone. You can get lucky with a walk-in offer, or you can build a purchase history and get an offer, but it's not like they're sitting on the shelves, in an array of specs, for everyone to grab whenever they feel like it. It's Hermes, not Zara- there is limited stock and that is down to the fact that they are handcrafted. Do not underestimate the value of that.

We all have to draw our own lines in life. The question you pose of banning an actual leatherworker making a living because a massive corporation deserves to monopolize a style has no answer, because it is unfair to pit them against each other. There is space for both.
Is an inspired bag unethical to purchase if an artisan sourced a great quality hide from a local tannery, worked meticulously to create a beautiful bag, and then sold at a fair price?
On the flip side, is it unethical to stop (ban, as you suggest) a leatherworker who has gone to great lengths and spent years to learn the art of leather crafting, toiled for days to hand-make a bag, and was selling the finished product just to make a living for themselves because you'd rather only Hermes make money?
Each customer can choose for themselves where to spend their money. You pay for the Hermes brand, but that doesn't mean that other leatherworkers don't deserve to earn a living. In the workshop, they are all doing the same task and it is a difficult one that requires patience, diligence, and skill.

There's space for both and we shouldn't stamp out small artisans, IMO- so long as branding is not stolen and it's not a replica with the intention of passing as genuine.

 

[redwings]

A view which is very much open to debate in court... The decisions upheld in Japanese courts regarding the trademark of the Birkin may not be upheld in Chinese or U.S courts or could be argued unsuccessfully un E.U courts. The fashion industry has been critical of laws being NOT stringent enough to protect designers in matters like these.

Well, this is getting OT.

Yes. Laws are subject to interpretation. That’s why there is no such thing as an international trademark. Each trademark/patent/copyright has to be filed individually and subject to the laws of the courts in each jurisdiction (e.g. country). How the cases run (win or lose) are subject to the decisions of the court of the particular jurisdiction.

That goes for any design trademarks pertaining to the bag.

 

[cerulean blue]

Well, this is getting OT.

Yes. Laws are subject to interpretation. That’s why there is no such thing as an international trademark. Each trademark/patent/copyright has to be filed individually and subject to the laws of the courts in each jurisdiction (e.g. country). How the cases run (win or lose) are subject to the decisions of the court of the particular jurisdiction.

That goes for any design trademarks pertaining to the bag.

Exactly on the OT and the laws...which doesn't completely undermine my point at all because some courts will agree with my first comment that if they are are not appropriating Hermes' logos and trademarks, purely the design of the bag, then they could consider it knocking off, but not counterfeiting. (Notwithstanding other factors in these court cases, but most often these things are settled out of court)

I don't care to go on with this and going to bow out. Seems like OP's issue is a bigger problem.

 

[Swanky]

My on topic opinion, no they’re not fakes/counterfeits without the logo or branding, they’re not sold as a Birkin, they’re inspired. That’s my opinion, not stating it as a fact.

This thread is very off topic and weirdly confrontational lol
It’s my opinion it’s run it’s course