Are leather handcrafted bags considered "fake Birkins" or not?

[TitaniaWilliams]

Hello,
As some of you may know I live in Tuscany, where we have lots of leather craftsmen and shops where they sell handmade bags.
Some of these bags are basically Birkin replicas, even if there's no "Hermes" tag, and I was wondering why they are not (or if they should be) considered fake Birkins.
A Birkin is not a bag that Hermes sells, but only a custom item that only specific clients may get, so maybe that's the reason why leather craftsmen can sell these bags?
In Italy we have strict rules about counterfeits, both national and international. For instance, Patrizia Gucci (not Patrizia Reggiani) years ago launched her collection of bags and she couldn't use her surname for obvious reasons.

I'd like to know how you feel about this subject. I was curious because I have recently found one of these fake birkins (in orange) ina flea market for 15€ and I also know of shops in Forence where they sell leather goods handmade, and where they offer, on their catalogue, bags that look exactly like a Kelly or a Birkin, for around 200-300€ of the colour you want in 20-30 days.

We all agree that they're not Birkins, there's not an Hermes brand on them... but shouldn't them be banned? I think if you try to sell one of those online, not using the Hermes name, they (I'm talking about websites that sell vintage non-luxury bags) won't allow you to do that...

 

[jellyv]

Hello,

Some of these bags are basically Birkin replicas, even if there's no "Hermes" tag, and I was wondering why they are not (or if they should be) considered fake Birkins.
A Birkin is not a bag that Hermes sells, but only a custom item that only specific clients may get, so

Extremely incorrect. You are confusing the allotment of bags with the production of them. A Birkin most definitely is a bag that Hermes sells. Who gets them is another matter. That is, they are not primarily custom ordered.

Moving on, you are also confusing a replica/fake with an "inspired" bag. Different facts accompany each category. In brief, if the product carries the stamps Hermes uses and is marketed as being an Hermes bag but was not made by Hermes, that's a replica. The other lookalike stuff has ethical issues but is not a replica/counterfeit, which is illegal everywhere. There have long been lookalikes, some quite close.

By the way there are tons of threads and posts on the subject.

 

[Sferics]

I think 1:1 is not "inspired" but just knock off and fake, and that is how I think it should be treated.

Funny to think, Birkins are not sold by Hermes btw.

 

[cerulean blue]

imo if these craftsmen are not appropriating Hermes' logos and trademarks, purely the design of the bag, then I would consider it knocking off, but not counterfeiting.

I mean how many times have we seen luxury brands rip off from each other and lower-end brands with the only difference being the logos?

 

[880]

Extremely incorrect. You are confusing the allotment of bags with the production of them. A Birkin most definitely is a bag that Hermes sells. Who gets them is another matter. That is, they are not primarily custom ordered.

Moving on, you are also confusing a replica/fake with an "inspired" bag. Different facts accompany each category. In brief, if the product carries the stamps Hermes uses and is marketed as being an Hermes bag but was not made by Hermes, that's a replica. The other lookalike stuff has ethical issues but is not a replica/counterfeit, which is illegal everywhere. There have long been lookalikes, some quite close.

By the way there are tons of threads and posts on the subject.

+1
In addition, sone of us will carry an inspired bag, some won’t.
basically, I’m a the point where I think, let others carry what they like.
i am grateful to be able to afford and buy Hermes, but I’m not the bag police
the Birkin is not as old a design as it’s precursor, the HAC, and I believe Hermes has, in its history, filed legal suit against some brands that have produced look alike s, such as Suarez and Lederer in NY. However, with the proliferation of on line replicas, complete with H stamp, I believe that this is where H now focuses its efforts.

As a related intellectual property topic for a luxury brand, ( and I think it’s a worthwhile comparison, not entirely OT) (the mods may disagree and delete this post) it was interesting to me that VCA did not originally protect its alhambra design and subsequently lost the international right to do so. That did not stop VCA from filing suit against some well known copiers, like the model, Heidi Klum. That case was settled out of court. But as a result of the loss of alhambra rights, there are CAD designs of alhambra everywhere.

i wear real VCA and real Hermes, but some members of my family think I’m wasting my money re the VCA at least. My family members do wear real Hermes, and I’m not quite sure how people straddle this line.

 

[Sferics]

imo if these craftsmen are not appropriating Hermes' logos and trademarks, purely the design of the bag, then I would consider it knocking off, but not counterfeiting.

I mean how many times have we seen luxury brands rip off from each other and lower-end brands with the only difference being the logos?

I think that's too easy: Think about most Bottega Veneta bags. No name or logo on the outside...

 

[TitaniaWilliams]

Thanks @Sferics and @cerulean blue for your kind answers.
I wasn't suggesting that they should be banned, I was just making questions that someone might ask.
The only thing these bags don't have is the Hermes logo and they have maybe another logo or no logo at all.
I'm aware of the fact that even luxury brands copy each other, but every brand produces an item in its own style, while these creaftsmen's purpose is producing and selling bags that look exactly like birkins because they look exactly like birkins.
When I say that Hermes doesn't technically sell these bags, I meant that they officially pass as items that are made only for special customers so I think there is a little bit of difference... Local craftsmen (for instance, in Italy) are copying an object that another craftsman in France has made for a specific client. They're not copying something you find in a store for 10 times the price, they're copying something that's not in the store for sale.

 

[allanrvj]

they officially pass as items that are made only for special customers

what does this mean? only special people can buy Birkins or...?

 

[jellyv]

When I say that Hermes doesn't technically sell these bags, I meant that they officially pass as items that are made only for special customers so I think there is a little bit of difference... Local craftsmen (for instance, in Italy) are copying an object that another craftsman in France has made for a specific client. They're not copying something you find in a store for 10 times the price, they're copying something that's not in the store for sale.

None of this is correct, as I mentioned above.

 

[duna]

Thanks @Sferics and @cerulean blue for your kind answers.
I wasn't suggesting that they should be banned, I was just making questions that someone might ask.
The only thing these bags don't have is the Hermes logo and they have maybe another logo or no logo at all.
I'm aware of the fact that even luxury brands copy each other, but every brand produces an item in its own style, while these creaftsmen's purpose is producing and selling bags that look exactly like birkins because they look exactly like birkins.
When I say that Hermes doesn't technically sell these bags, I meant that they officially pass as items that are made only for special customers so I think there is a little bit of difference... Local craftsmen (for instance, in Italy) are copying an object that another craftsman in France has made for a specific client. They're not copying something you find in a store for 10 times the price, they're copying something that's not in the store for sale.

Birkins are made by Hermès for people to buy, they are not made for a specific client. They are scarce yes, but if you go to your local Hermès store and ask to put your name down for a Birkin they'll do it, if you actually GET the bag after 1/2 years is another story. It's the same if you go to a Rolex store, you won't find one but you can put your name down on the waitlist, it doesn't mean you'll get it though. They prioritize long time customers or VIP customers, which is exactly what Hermès does. If you buy a fake/replica Rolex your not buying the real thing, it's a fake, and it's the same for Birkins.

 

[redwings]

The other lookalike stuff has ethical issues but is not a replica/counterfeit, which is illegal everywhere. There have long been lookalikes, some quite close.

Only illegal in countries where Hermes filed the trademark of the birkin.

Japan had one such case - I think the Tia Maria (a Japanese company) case. No logos but the shape. Hermes sued and won based on the trademark.

 

[TitaniaWilliams]

what does this mean? only special people can buy Birkins or...?

Yes, it means that those bags are made by Hermes only for specific clients selected by them and not for just any person who wants to spend 8k on one of them. They're not on the website, they're not on the catalogue, they're not available in store if you step in and just ask for one.

Of course they don't make a bag "for you" (besides those bags I believe are called "special orders") but they don't even give it to you right away just because you want it or ensure you're going to have it in 6 months exactly how you wanted it (There are no waitlists at Hermes...) It's up to them whether you can buy it or not. And they're not technically for sale until they show one of them to you, and that's the only bag you can buy at that point.

If Hermes sold those bags in store, then they would break the law not selling them to the client who steps in first.

So these bags are on sale only when the SA offers a bag to a client. And that bag is specifically for that client at that point. They're not for sale in general, for everyone, before that offer and they're not for sale afterwards.

 

[jellyv]

Yes, it means that those bags are made by Hermes only for specific clients and not for just any person who wants to they're not available in store if you step in and just ask for
And they're not technically for sale until they show or offer them to you.

If Hermes sold those bags in store, then they would break the law not selling them to the client who steps in first.

So these bags are on sale only when the SA offers a bag to a client. And that bag is specifically for that client at that point. They're not for sale

Still entirely incorrect, and--is the thread about infringement or how to get a Birkin?

 

[allanrvj]

Yes, it means that those bags are made by Hermes only for specific clients selected by them and not for just any person who wants to spend 8k on one of them. They're not on the website, they're not on the catalogue, they're not available in store if you step in and just ask for one.

Of course they don't make a bag "for you" (besides those bags I believe are called "special orders") but they don't even give it to you right away just because you want it or ensure you're going to have it in 6 months exactly how you wanted it (There are no waitlists at Hermes...) It's up to them whether you can buy it or not. And they're not technically for sale until they show one of them to you, and that's the only bag you can buy at that point.

If Hermes sold those bags in store, then they would break the law not selling them to the client who steps in first.

So these bags are on sale only when the SA offers a bag to a client. And that bag is specifically for that client at that point. They're not for sale in general, for everyone, before that offer and they're not for sale afterwards.

I think you have a false understanding of how Hermès sells Birkins. All of this is wrong.

 

[cerulean blue]

I think that's too easy: Think about most Bottega Veneta bags. No name or logo on the outside...

I remember Mansur Gavriel knocking off a few design codes from Bottega Veneta (like the Intrecciato) without getting any reproach or legal repercussions. Same with Balenciaga knocking off that Ikea bag (aside from it being leather and that small inlay that said Balenciaga). Or how many brands doing horse bit loafers?

Like these pair of Carmina loafers vs Gucci?