Are leather handcrafted bags considered "fake Birkins" or not?

[redwings]

Yes, it means that those bags are made by Hermes only for specific clients selected by them and not for just any person who wants to spend 8k on one of them. They're not on the website, they're not on the catalogue, they're not available in store if you step in and just ask for one.

You can step in and ask for one. It just depends on how lucky you are to receive the offer.

Of course they don't make a bag "for you", but they don't even give it to you right away just because you want it. It's up to them whether you can buy it or not. And they're not technically for sale until they show or offer them to you.

If Hermes sold those bags in store, then they would break the law not selling them to the client who steps in first.

No law broken as far as I know if they refuse to sell on first come first serve.

So these bags are on sale only when the SA offers a bag to a client. And that bag is specifically for that client at that point. They're not for sale in general, for everyone, before that offer and they're not for sale afterwards.

Those bags are not ’specifically’ for a client (think of it as a private yet highly demanded catalogue with limited amounts made of every color) UNLESS it’s a special order (a customization order) which has to be again offered.

 

[redwings]

I remember Mansur Gavriel knocking off a few design codes from Bottega Veneta (like the Intrecciato) without getting any reproach or legal repercussions. Same with Balenciaga knocking off that Ikea bag (aside from it being leather and that small inlay that said Balenciaga). Or how many brands doing horse bit loafers?

Like these pair of Carmina loafers vs Gucci?

IKEA didn’t mind. They had a good laugh at Balenciaga while another company did sue Balenciaga which resulted in an out of court settlement.

It all depends on who owns the trademarks and whether an actual trademark exists in the country where the case is filed.

 

[cerulean blue]

IKEA didn’t mind. They had a good laugh at Balenciaga while another company did sue Balenciaga which resulted in a out of court settlement.

It all depends on who owns the trademarks and whether an actual trademark exists in the country where the case is filed.

Right, which is why I prefaced my initial comment with "imo"

But at what point does this stop? Like the 5-pocket jeans Levi's invented and how literally every brand has appropriated the initial design (with very little modification)? Or?

 

[TitaniaWilliams]

You don't understand what I'm saying.
There are no waitlists at Hermes, there are no Birkins or Kellys on the website.
You don't get a bag - even after 6 months or 1 year or 5 years - just because you pay your money, wait for it, and get it.

When I said that bags are "made for specific clients" I didn't mean that they are made from scratch for a specific client, please, I'm not that stupid...

I meant that those bags are on sale ONLY when they're offered to a specific client, and NOT before, not after, not when they are available in store or locked up in private rooms of the store. They're on sale when they are offered to a client.

What I'm saying is quite simple, but I'll give you an example.

Let's say I am a customer of Hermes, I go to Hermes and they offer me a pink Birkin. I refuse it. Then I call my friend (a reseller, a random person, my sister, a member of this forum) who wants a pink Birkin, and I tell her that it's available in that store. Tell me: if this person goes in that store 1 minute after and asks for that same bag, will they sell it to her? No, they won't. They'll say that the bag is not available (it is in the store but it's not available for sale until it is offered to the client) and that they don't do link selling...

 

[allanrvj]

You don't understand what I'm saying.
There are no waitlists at Hermes, there are no Birkins or Kellys on the website.
You don't get a bag - even after 6 months or 1 year or 5 years - just because you pay your money, wait for it, and get it.

When I said that bags are "made for specific clients" I didn't mean that they are made from scratch for a specific client, please, I'm not that stupid...

I meant that those bags are on sale ONLY when they're offered to a specific client, and NOT before, not after, not when they are available in store or locked up in private rooms of the store. They're on sale when they are offered to a client.

What I'm saying is quite simple, but I'll give you an example.

Let's say I am a customer of Hermes, I go to Hermes and they offer me a pink Birkin. I refuse it. Then I call my friend (reseller) who wants a pink Birkin, and I tell her that it's available in that store. Tell me: if my friend goes in that store 1 minute after and asks for that same bag, would they sell it to her? No, they wouldn't. They would say that the bag is not available (it is in the store but it's not available for sale until it is offered to the client) and that they don't do link selling, and bla bla bla.

I think your point of view is wrong because you equate whatever you (or your friend) have experienced and equate it with the rest of the world. "This is what I know so therefore this is how the world operates" kind of thing.

To start with, there are many touristy places (northern European cities comes to mind) where you can buy a Birkin as a walk-in customer. You don't even have to be a local. You can be a tourist. If there's a Birkin and you have money to pay, you can have the Birkin.

What I suggest is that you read a lot of threads here, educate yourself, so that whatever false beliefs you're having about Hermès, about Birkins, etc, soften a little.

 

[Sferics]

I remember Mansur Gavriel knocking off a few design codes from Bottega Veneta (like the Intrecciato) without getting any reproach or legal repercussions. Same with Balenciaga knocking off that Ikea bag (aside from it being leather and that small inlay that said Balenciaga). Or how many brands doing horse bit loafers?

Like these pair of Carmina loafers vs Gucci?

I was talking about a 1:1 copy with every detail, only without logo or name, IMHO is a faked bag and nothing else.
My opinion and I would never carry one.
I don't talk about an "inspired" style.

knocking off that Ikea bag

C'mon, this was something different, it was not even a "bag" and: Ikea totally vibed with the joke.

 

[redwings]

You don't understand what I'm saying.
There are no waitlists at Hermes, there are no Birkins or Kellys on the website.
You don't get a bag - even after 6 months or 1 year or 5 years - just because you pay your money, wait for it, and get it.

When I said that bags are "made for specific clients" I didn't mean that they are made from scratch for a specific client, please, I'm not that stupid...

I meant that those bags are on sale ONLY when they're offered to a specific client, and NOT before, not after, not when they are available in store or locked up in private rooms of the store. They're on sale when they are offered to a client.

What I'm saying is quite simple, but I'll give you an example.

Let's say I am a customer of Hermes, I go to Hermes and they offer me a pink Birkin. I refuse it. Then I call my friend (reseller) who wants a pink Birkin, and I tell her that it's available in that store. Tell me: if my friend goes in that store 1 minute after and asks for that same bag, would they sell it to her? No, they wouldn't. They would say that the bag is not available (it is in the store but it's not available for sale until it is offered to the client) and that they don't do link selling, and bla bla bla.

They are ‘offered’ to specific clients. That’s the terminology used and very different from being ‘made‘ for specific clients.

This thread is about whether leathercraft birkins are fakes or not.
It depends on whether Hermes filed a trademark in Italy and AWARE that such bags are made to a certain exacting standard that it bears too many similarities to a birkin.

Plus if they sue, those leathercraft artisans better have cash to pony up. No point suing if the producer cannot be tracked down and the seller has no money to cough up.

They can request Italian authorities to confiscate and destroy the bags if it violates their trademark when the cost of legal action to gain from infringement damages is not seen as beneficial ( aka seller has no money to pay).

 

[cerulean blue]

I was talking about a 1:1 copy with every detail, only without logo or name, IMHO is a faked bag and nothing else.
My opinion and I would never carry one.
I don't talk about an "inspired" style.


C'mon, this was something different, it was not even a "bag" and: Ikea totally vibed with the joke.

Would you carry the same sensibilities to garments and accessories like 5-pocket jeans, T-shirts, Men's suits, the button-up, Oxfords/Derbies, Ballet flats, trucker jackets, biker jackets, baseball caps, bucket hats etc that have been endlessly copied 1:1 with every detail, only without logos or name? All of them were invented by someone and a brand like the Birkin as well..

 

[Sferics]

Would you carry the same sensibilities to garments and accessories like 5-pocket jeans, T-shirts, Men's suits, the button-up, Oxfords/Derbies, Ballet flats, trucker jackets, biker jackets, etc that have been endlessly copied 1:1 with every detail, only without logos or name? All of them were invented by someone and a brand like the Birkin as well..

If it is 1:1?
Yes, of course.
(not sure about your interpretation of 1:1)

 

[redwings]

Would you carry the same sensibilities to garments and accessories like 5-pocket jeans, T-shirts, Men's suits, the button-up, Oxfords/Derbies, Ballet flats, trucker jackets, biker jackets, etc that have been endlessly copied 1:1 with every detail, only without logos or name? All of them were invented by someone and a brand like the Birkin as well..

Were those designs trademarked? If not, then this point is moot because the only way a brand can take action is if its logo is used. Very different from the Birkin design which is trademarked in many countries where Hermes holds a large vested interest.

 

[880]

I think your point of view is wrong because you equate whatever you (or your friend) have experienced and equate it with the rest of the world. "This is what I know so therefore this is how the world operates" kind of thing.

What I suggest is that you read a lot of threads here, educate yourself, so that whatever false beliefs you're having about Hermès, about Birkins, etc, soften a little.

Agree with all of this; back in the day lol, a moderator would have moved the entire thread to one of many preexisting ones. When I suggested this on another thread, I was told, not very politely, that I shouldn’t voice my opinion. It may have been a thread by another new member though. JMO

 

[cerulean blue]

Were those designs trademarked? If not, then this point is moot. Birkin is trademarked in many countries where Hermes holds a large vested interest.

Which is why my point was prefaced with imo. I'm aware others may not feel as laissez-faire as I am.

 

[redwings]

Which is why my point was prefaced with imo. I'm aware others may not feel as laissez-faire as I am.

It’s not a feeling. Just giving a view of how the law in different jurisdictions are exercised in regards to trademarks, patents and copyrights.

The French authorities under their law, can confiscate and destroy that leathercraft ‘birkin’ lookalike on the spot when it comes under their attention and IF they view it as a counterfeit.

 

[TitaniaWilliams]

I think your point of view is wrong because you equate whatever you (or your friend) have experienced and equate it with the rest of the world. "This is what I know so therefore this is how the world operates" kind of thing.

To start with, there are many touristy places (northern European cities comes to mind) where you can buy a Birkin as a walk-in customer. You don't even have to be a local. You can be a tourist. If there's a Birkin and you have money to pay, you can have the Birkin.

What I suggest is that you read a lot of threads here, educate yourself, so that whatever false beliefs you're having about Hermès, about Birkins, etc, soften a little.

I have not experienced anything, I was just making an example of --> " Those bags are available for sale only when someone gets an offer" and they're not on sale just because they're there in the store and you can see them and choose one of them. -_-

But it's ok, I'm ignorant and I want to educate myself.

So, please, instead of being rude and bullying me, why don't you explain to me why Birkin and Kellys are not on the Hermes' website, with their price, colors, and something like "NOT AVAILABLE" or "ONLY AVAILABLE IN STORE / FIND IT IN STORE", just like any other item?

If I write "Birkin" on the search bar of the Hermes' website (Italian version) and it shows me 5 "bikini" and a ring. Where is the Birkin bag on the Hermes website?

 

[duna]

I have not experienced anything, I was just making an example of --> " Those bags are available for sale only when someone gets an offer" and they're not on sale just because they're there in the store and you can see them and choose one of them. -_-

But it's ok, I'm ignorant and I want to educate myself.

So, please, instead of being rude and bullying me, why don't you explain to me why Birkin and Kellys are not on the Hermes' website, with their price, colors, and something like "NOT AVAILABLE" or "ONLY AVAILABLE IN STORE / FIND IT IN STORE", just like any other item?

If I write "Birkin" on the search bar of the Hermes' website (Italian version) and it shows me 5 "bikini" and a ring. Where is the Birkin bag on the Hermes website? Do they sell these bags or not?

There are hundreds of Hermès items never on their website.

Hermès in Paris is one of the best places to find a Birkin or a Kelly as a walk-in/tourist.