answers to AUTHENTICITY questions!!!

[queenpenelope]

Hi I have a quick question. If a seller is providing tag, dustbag, and receipt along with a preowned bag is there a good chance that it's real?

 

[Hyacinth]

Not really. Fake receipts can easily be made and are sold in many places on the internet, and almost every fake bag comes with price tags, various care cards and a dustbag. All those things are easily counterfeited.

The ONLY way to reduce the risk of buying a fake is to post good clear photos for us to look at. Please post at the Authenticate This Coach thread using the format in Post# 1 on page one.

 

[Hyacinth]

There's a new fake serial number prefix posted at Ebay's forum so I'm posting the information here.

Coaches with serial numbers starting with D8J- especially older bags need to be looked at carefully since several fakes have been spotted with this combination. Please post any bags starting with this number at the Authenticate This Coach forum.

"DEJ-" is already a KNOWN fake serial prefix.

 

[ettaj]

Thanks for this information. Its the best I have seen yet!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ettaj]

Do all coach bags have the YKK zippers. I have an older Coach New York bag that has ziplon zipper. It was my mothers bag so I have wondered if it is authentic.

 

[starrymaz]

Do all coach bags have the YKK zippers. I have an older Coach New York bag that has ziplon zipper. It was my mothers bag so I have wondered if it is authentic.

No, not all Coach bags use YKK zippers. Whether or not a bag has YKK zippers shouldn't be used as a measure of determining authenticity. Coach has used several different types of zippers over the years. If you're asking about authenticity of your bag, please post your question in the Authenticate This Coach thread here:

http://forum.purseblog.com/coach-shopping/authenticate-this-coach-492978.html

Follow the instructions in Post #1 and be sure to include pictures.

 

[bimmer23]

:d

 

[mendoza-arizona]

I got a big lot of Vintage Leather Coach Bags & I'm searching on each one to write some history facsts xxxxx. I found a Willis Bag that has the following Serial #: 0914-303, is the first time I see a Coach Bag ending w/ 3 Digits, can anyone please give me a good reason or history fact???

Thanks in advance!

 

[Hyacinth]

I got a big lot of Vintage Leather Coach Bags & I'm searching on each one to write some history facsts xxx. I found a Willis Bag that has the following Serial #: 0914-303, is the first time I see a Coach Bag ending w/ 3 Digits, can anyone please give me a good reason or history fact???

Thanks in advance!

If you read my posts on pages 3 and 18 of this thread, you can find all the information about serial numbers that you need to know.

The bag is 15 to 20 years old if it's authentic.

I hope you're having someone authenticate those bags before listing. There are a LOT of fake vintage Coaches out there and they show up from every imaginable source. Just because a "Coach" has a serial number doesn't mean it's genuine.

 

[Hyacinth]

Just for reference, here's a link to the US Anticounterfeiting law:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2320.html

and here's an in-depth analysis:
http://www.cybercrime.gov/ipmanual/03ipma.html#III.B.1.

Here's just one part:

# III.B.1. The Trademark Counterfeiting Crime in General

The Trademark Counterfeiting Act, 18 U.S.C. § 2320(a), states:

Whoever intentionally traffics or attempts to traffic in goods or services and knowingly uses a counterfeit mark on or in connection with such goods or services[, or intentionally traffics or attempts to traffic in labels, patches, stickers, wrappers, badges, emblems, medallions, charms, boxes, containers, cans, cases, hangtags, documentation, or packaging of any type or nature, knowing that a counterfeit mark has been applied thereto, the use of which is likely to cause confusion, to cause mistake, or to deceive,] shall, if an individual, be fined not more than $2,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both, and, if a person other than an individual, be fined not more than $5,000,000.

The bracketed language was inserted by the Stop Counterfeiting in Manufactured Goods Act, Pub. L. No. 109-181, § 1(b)(1), 120 Stat. 285, 285 (Mar. 16, 2006), and thus applies only to offenses arising after its enactment.

Selling just one counterfeit item can be a felony. United States v. Foote, 413 F.3d 1240, 1246 (10th Cir. 2005). There is no misdemeanor provision.

Most states also have their own laws, and some consider selling less than a specified number of counterfeits as a misdemeanor. The penalties under Federal law are much more severe.

More information:
http://www.naw.org/govrelations/advisory.php?articleid=563

 

[ponytail]

Does this forum have a list of Ebay sellers who are known to sell fakes?

I know I saw a list of reputable sellers somewhere on here but I can't find it now. Could you please link it for me?

Thanks!

 

[Hyacinth]

Does this forum have a list of Ebay sellers who are known to sell fakes?

I know I saw a list of reputable sellers somewhere on here but I can't find it now. Could you please link it for me?

Thanks!

No, both for legal reasons and because they change names and IDs constantly as their old IDs are "outed". The best thing to do is to ask for authentication of each bag by the experts here. I suggest that you start your own individual list of sellers you shouldn't buy from.

 

[Hyacinth]

There's a flood of new fakes coming in where recent styles in both classic Signature and the newer Op Art C prints have cheap khaki and brown "C" lining. A lot of these fakes also don't have any serial numbers on the creed at all or have numbers that are much too old or too short or just plain wrong.

Remember that ALMOST without exception, a Coach bag with C's of any kind including Coach logos or patches of C fabric on Patchwork bags should NEVER have C's or Coach logos on the lining. There are maybe half a dozen exceptions but they're mostly older bags.

Many of the ripoffs of recent styles have C's inside and out, and they shouldn't. That cheap tacky printed brown-on-khaki C lining is a HUGE red flag, and any recent style (Op Art, Sabrina, and anything less than 4 years old) with that lining is FAKE. PERIOD. No exceptions (although we may find one some day since Coach "rules" are made to be broken, so please post any questionable bags at the Authenticate This Coach thread).

Here's a tacky fake Op Art bag with the always-fake lining:

 

[Hyacinth]

BTW, the C lining in the current run of fakes doesn't have to be only brown letters on a tan background. Here's another combination. (Please remember, some older bags from about 2005 and earlier can have similar C linings - these 2 posts ONLY refer to fake linings in bag styles from 2008 and 2009):

 

[aggieyoda]

What makes something Fake instead of "designer-inspired"?


There's a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation about this so hopefully this will clear some of that up.

How a bag is described or listed means nothing - calling a counterfeit "designer-inspired" doesn't make it so, and calling a cow a pig doesn't make it one. It depends on whether or not a manufacturer's registered trademark is being infringed. Coach's LEGAL trademarks are defined by Coach and the courts as follows:

"The four trademarks that have been registered by Coach, Inc. are the name "Coach," the "Coach Tag," the "Coach Lozenge," and the "Coach Signature C Design." The Coach web-site prominently depicts each of its trademarks..."

http://www.courts.state.ny.us/REPORT...2003_51738.htm

(And I'm sure the Op-Art-style Cs will be added to that list as soon as legal action is taken against someone who's copied them illegally.)

Using Os or Gs instead of Cs or calling a similar bag a Carly isn't illegal, nor is copying the style of a genuine bag.

If a manufacturer duplicates any of the above Coach trademarks, then the item immediately becomes a counterfeit. Anything else is "designer-inspired" or a "knock-off".

The term "replica" is generally seen as meaning the same as counterfeit. Both are illegal in the US and most countries where trademark and copyright laws are in place.


US Federal Law, "Title 18 > Part I > Chapter 113 > Section 2320§ 2320. Trafficking in counterfeit goods or services" defines "Counterfeit":

(1) the term “counterfeit mark” means—
(A) a spurious mark—
(i) that is used in connection with trafficking in any goods, services, labels, patches, stickers, wrappers, badges, emblems, medallions, charms, boxes, containers, cans, cases, hangtags, documentation, or packaging of any type or nature;
(ii) that is identical with, or substantially indistinguishable from, a mark registered on the principal register in the United States Patent and Trademark Office and in use, whether or not the defendant knew such mark was so registered;
(iii) that is applied to or used in connection with the goods or services for which the mark is registered with the United States Patent and Trademark Office, or is applied to or consists of a label, patch, sticker, wrapper, badge, emblem, medallion, charm, box, container, can, case, hangtag, documentation, or packaging of any type or nature that is designed, marketed, or otherwise intended to be used on or in connection with the goods or services for which the mark is registered in the United States Patent and Trademark Office; and
(iv) the use of which is likely to cause confusion, to cause mistake, or to deceive; or
(B) a spurious designation that is identical with, or substantially indistinguishable from, a designation as to which the remedies of the Lanham Act are made available by reason of section 220506 of title 36;
but such term does not include any mark or designation used in connection with goods or services, or a mark or designation applied to labels, patches, stickers, wrappers, badges, emblems, medallions, charms, boxes, containers, cans, cases, hangtags, documentation, or packaging of any type or nature used in connection with such goods or services, of which the manufacturer or producer was, at the time of the manufacture or production in question, authorized to use the mark or designation for the type of goods or services so manufactured or produced, by the holder of the right to use such mark or designation.[1]

Or as Ebay says in its Rules:
"If the product you are selling bears the name or logo of a company, but it wasn't made or endorsed by that company, don't list it on eBay."

It doesn't matter what you call it, how you describe it, whether or not you say it's authentic, or if you state right in the listing that it's not real - IF IT WASN'T MADE BY COACH BUT HAS COACH'S TRADEMARKED NAME OR LOGO, IT'S COUNTERFEIT AND ILLEGAL.


I hope that answers any questions.

I'm new to the forum, and I've found this thread enormously helpful to my newest obsession, so thanks, ladies!

I just wanted to add to the above (though I realize y'all don't know me from Eve), that Coach currently has more than 26 distinct, active trademarks. You can search the USPTO database of trademarks at http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/index.jsp; click "search marks" then try either the new user search, or click "free form search" and copy in this search phrase: "("Coach Services")[ON] and (018)[GS]". That's a search for trademarks owned by Coach in the class of goods including leather goods like purses, etc.

Also, I just want to clarify that the point Hyacinth seems to be making above is in reference to the criminal act of selling counterfeit goods. However, contrary to the statement above that "sing Os or Gs instead of Cs or calling a similar bag a Carly isn't illegal, nor is copying the style of a genuine bag," producing and/or selling so-called "knock-offs" without duplicating a trademark exactly may still be illegal trademark infringement, enforceable in civil court. A "Goach" bag could be considered "confusingly similar" in a court of law--that's why Coach has previously, and is currently, suing Target for trademark infringment. So there actually is a law against making/selling similar bags, too!

Anyway, sorry if this information is available elsewhere--it just seemed a natural corollary to the information posted previously in this thread. Hope it's useful!