Afraid to send back designer shoes

[Ellie Mae]

Ellie Mae,
I have one more question, I could have sworn that PP decided INR, but not SNAD (I have opened one and lost). I thought I read a case recently in this thread where the bag was fake (and the wrong color?) and PP still decided in the seller's favor. Is that just for transactions outside of eBay? Is that where I am mixed up? So on eBay, PP and eBay protection is basically the same, but off of eBay, PP only decides cases of INR, not SNAD. Does that sound right?

Sort of, Syd. PP does not offer ANY Buyer PROTECTION for non-ebay transactions. NONE. They do however offer a buyer COMPLAINT policy for INR for non-ebay transactions (not that it is very useful for funds
recovery). For non ebay transaction, INR, PP may well decide in a buyer's favor, but under the complaint policy, the buyer would only refund a buyer IF PP could access those funds from a seller's PP account. Which is rare. Under the complaint policy, PP itself would not reimburse the buyer. Whereas they WILL under the buyer PROTECTION policy, and then go back against the seller for reimbursement.
For NON-EBAY SNAD, PP says no dispute will be decided by PP.

PP also does NOT offer seller protection against charge backs, except in case of INR.

If you have never read the PP User Agreement (US version)... https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?...ntent_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=en_US Paragraphs 11-13 reference buyer & seller protection.

And here is the ebay buyer protection policy for anyone who had not read it (US version)...http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/buyer-protection.html

Both DO vary by country. So it's extremely important that OP's clarify what country they are from AND what country they bought from.

Headache, anyone??

Explain your SNAD case to me that you lost...??

 

[sydney-1980]

It was awhile ago. I purchased a bag from a store online and it had a flaw in it. The merchant only accepted PayPal. They had a restocking fee of 20%, plus I had to pay the return shipping, and they didn't return original shipping. I could see that if I had just changed my mind, but I did not think this was right, since they sent me a bag with a flaw. The merchant just closed the dispute and said that I could send it back, but only according to all of their terms. It didn't seem that there was anything else I could do. PayPal's message just said "Seller has declined your request for refund." But the merchant wrote in the message that I could still send it back for a refund minus restocking fees and shipping, so I did. It seemed like PayPal wasn't getting involved. I mistakenly thought that this was what had happened to the OP.

 

[Ellie Mae]

It was awhile ago. I purchased a bag from a store online and it had a flaw in it. The merchant only accepted PayPal. They had a restocking fee of 20%, plus I had to pay the return shipping, and they didn't return original shipping. I could see that if I had just changed my mind, but I did not think this was right, since they sent me a bag with a flaw. The merchant just closed the dispute and said that I could send it back, but only according to all of their terms. It didn't seem that there was anything else I could do. PayPal's message just said "Seller has declined your request for refund." But the merchant wrote in the message that I could still send it back for a refund minus restocking fees and shipping, so I did. It seemed like PayPal wasn't getting involved. I mistakenly thought that this was what had happened to the OP.

And what transpired is exactly per PP policy, Syd. As a non-ebay purchase, you had no PP Buyer Protection of any kind. Only PP buyer complaint for INR. PP allowed you to open the SNAD dispute simply to enable "mediation" between the parties, however PP will not get involved in this mediation, because there is no buyer protection.
SO, in this instance, the seller had the right to "refuse to mediate" and close the dispute. You are right, PP was NOT involved.
PP WILL get "involved" as to rendering a decision in an INR filed under the complaint policy, but NOT for SNAD. Irregardless, buyer complaint rarely recovers any funds.
If you had paid w/ a CC via PP, then you likely could have filed a charge back w/ your CC co to recoup original price and shipping. It is wise to use a CC when paying w/ PP ON ebay. But it is MANDATORY to use a CC when paying w/ PP for ALL non-ebay transactions, as in these instances the CC will be the only buyer protection that you have.

 

[sydney-1980]

Yes, at the time I didn't even know what a charge back was. I only heard of that recently. I got it now. Thanks for the info. So the OP is protected either way, because she bought through eBay, and the seller can't just "see" about her refund after she sends them back. Thanks for clearing this up!

 

[Ellie Mae]

Yes, at the time I didn't even know what a charge back was. I only heard of that recently. I got it now. Thanks for the info. So the OP is protected either way, because she bought through eBay, and the seller can't just "see" about her refund after she sends them back. Thanks for clearing this up!

You got it! HTH

 

[SOLIDGOLD2]

open a case with ebay. She doesn't have the right to "close" those and decline a refund, as ebay will decide the outcome. I know what you mean though, i did that with a merchant who i paid through pp, but it wasn't an ebay auction.

Open an ebay snad case. Then escalate it to a claim. Tell your side, that they are fake and refer to her messages. They will ask for more info if needed. She is not going to "see" about your refund. Once the case is decided in your favor (and it will be) you will send them back and ebay will refund bid price + original shipping if she doesn't do it on her own.

Don't communicate with her anymore, and do not send the shoes until you have settled the case with ebay. If you send them without all of this being documented, i don't think you are guaranteed your $. pp doesn't do snad disputes, just inr disputes. i think that is why she was able to just decline the refund and close it. They kind of just let the parties work it out for themselves.

Anyone else please jump in here if i have misconstrued anything. But i wouldn't worry. Ebay's buyer protection program is great for the buyer. You will most certainly get your $ back. The fact that she admits that she doesn't even know if they are real is lol funny, and icing on the cake in your claim. Good luck.

Ps: You may also point out to ebay that she has listed them again, though you still have them. Wtf, did i get that right? Count the listing violatons: You can't list something that is not in your posession because you sold it to someone else. Plus, you can't list something that you do not know to be authentic...this lady needs to be removed.

op pp does snad cases as long as they were an bay purchase

 

[AmbassadorBri]

I am sorry, but I have to put my two cents in here. I think that you should write the seller (oops) a nice long email and explain to her that (A) an elementary education is FREE in this country and SO IS SPELL-CHECK (B) you don't want "hood" knock-off's, because you paid for, an expect, the real thing and (C) her boyfriend has bad taste, and she should dump him for being so stupid AND cheap! I suspect that she is full of crap, and that the boyfriend did not buy the "shous." Please do not close anything with anyone until you get every dime back that you spent on those "shous." Idiot seller. I am sorry to sound so angry, but I feel like buyers and sellers are getting more and more brazen by the day, and sadly, for those sellers/buyers who ARE HONEST, we are subject to unfair treatment by Ebay and PayPal more often than not.

I really wish you the very best, and I hope that you update us with what happens. I would also call the local authorities where she lives and report her. This counterfeit crap has to stop.

 

[Ellie Mae]

No worries Sydney, the paypal claim wasn't closed, the refund was denied. So at that point I had an option to escalate it. So maybe it was closed at that point but I reopened it?

I appreciate everyones advice. Paypal just emailed me with the address so I'm going to ship it back today.

Just to bring this thread up to date & clarify - OP is the BUYER. OP did file a PP dispute, escalated to a claim, PP has advised her to return shoes to seller.
OP appears to be looking sitting pretty ATM, awaiting her refund, sans the fugly shoes.

Michy, sorry for the chit-chat about PP policy. I derailed you a bit.

 

[AmbassadorBri]

Ellie- muchas gracias!

 

[o_luxurious]

The seller sounds TERRIBLE! I'm sorry you're dealing with this crazy one. She sounds like she has a lot of these knock-offs and responds this way to each buyer who want their money back. And of course, that boyfriend story sounds totally made up.

ITA with Sydney and Ellie Mae's posts.

From someone who is also dealing with a counterfeit item asking for a refund from a rude seller, best of luck to you! Hope everything works out well.

 

[Michy1215]

I am sorry, but I have to put my two cents in here. I think that you should write the seller (oops) a nice long email and explain to her that (A) an elementary education is FREE in this country and SO IS SPELL-CHECK (B) you don't want "hood" knock-off's, because you paid for, an expect, the real thing and (C) her boyfriend has bad taste, and she should dump him for being so stupid AND cheap! I suspect that she is full of crap, and that the boyfriend did not buy the "shous." Please do not close anything with anyone until you get every dime back that you spent on those "shous." Idiot seller. I am sorry to sound so angry, but I feel like buyers and sellers are getting more and more brazen by the day, and sadly, for those sellers/buyers who ARE HONEST, we are subject to unfair treatment by Ebay and PayPal more often than not.

I really wish you the very best, and I hope that you update us with what happens. I would also call the local authorities where she lives and report her. This counterfeit crap has to stop.

lol i love your post. I was thinking the SAME exact thing.. I mean.. shous? she hasn't contacted me at all since I escalated. I shipped the shoes yesterday and provided paypal with the signature on delivery number. I did some research on her and not only did she post them for buy it now a couple of days ago, but a day after my auction ended, another auction ended with the same pair of shoes! I tried to find a way to contact the buyer but ebay blocks the name. I contacted eBay help and the person said they will flag the seller.

 

[Michy1215]

Just to bring this thread up to date & clarify - OP is the BUYER. OP did file a PP dispute, escalated to a claim, PP has advised her to return shoes to seller.
OP appears to be looking sitting pretty ATM, awaiting her refund, sans the fugly shoes.

Michy, sorry for the chit-chat about PP policy. I derailed you a bit.

I learned something!

 

[Michy1215]

On tuesday at 3pm the bag was attempted to be delivered but a notice was left. She has 15 days to retrieve the bag or else it gets back sent to me. She still hasn't retrieved the bag. I'm worried she will stall until the last possible day or even possibly have it sent back to me. Should I contact her and let her know the bag is waiting at the post office?

 

[fashion_mom1]

On tuesday at 3pm the bag was attempted to be delivered but a notice was left. She has 15 days to retrieve the bag or else it gets back sent to me. She still hasn't retrieved the bag. I'm worried she will stall until the last possible day or even possibly have it sent back to me. Should I contact her and let her know the bag is waiting at the post office?

I would contact her. I have had this happen. Normally the only leverage I can use if feedback. I tell them that if they refund my money asap I wouldn't leave the negative feedback that they deserve.

 

[crazzee_shopper]

I'm curious. What does happen if the seller (receiver) refuses to accept the USPS package and it gets shipped back to the sender?

I had a SNAD case where I mailed it back. Luckily for me, it was mailed through UPS. When it got returned to me, there was a big sticker from UPS that stated "receiver refused package". I called ebay ASAP and told them the situation since I wanted my refund. Ebay gave me the refund.