Interesting to think about future grails. I agree with you that Samourais was probably the most recent.
Scarves Is there a scarf slump?
- Thread starter momasaurus
- Start date
Interesting to think they are downplaying the cult of each designer. I suppose the designers have their own social media demands. Gattoni doesn't have a current design. Maybe they dumped him, and have been adoring Bajtik. He (she?) has 3 designs this calendar year, but two of them look exactly alike, LOL.
Thanks for these great thoughts. I wonder if maybe there is a collector slump? No new collectors out there? It's an aging audience? People coming new to the brand maybe just like the pretty new things. Kind of like antiques. These days you can't give away "brown" furniture."Grail' is such a personal thing unless you're talking about serious collector grails as @marietouchet mentioned, and I agree with her, that's another category entirely. I suspect most of us have our lists of designs/cws we missed the first go around, or something ignored then and coveted now, and the lists probably include designs like Turandot (mine does). I wonder though if marietouchet's point about 'chatter' being a fundamental driver of 'grail-dom' isn't really the crux of the matter. Or maybe 'grail' isn't really the most accurate term; 'hyper-popular' might be more on point. If we're all following our mother's guidance not to say anything if there's nothing nice to be said, and of course no one wants to rain on a scarfie's parade, is anyone really going to step up and say, "wow, that one's a dud?" And further, there's always something new around the bend to get excited about, either designs or cws or both, so it's not easy for an issue to have the serious staying power that I think would cement it as a grail.
I haven't seen any definitive numbers that would lead me to conclude there's a true slump, but the anecdotal evidence suggests that many longer time collectors have bulging scarf drawers and no real inclination to add to the piles unless it's for something beyond incredible, to satisfy a whim, to fill a cw hole, or some similarly strong impetus. I think it also matters whether you think the season's offerings have hit a sweet spot for you, otherwise...meh.
Finally, I suspect there's a larger issue at work with how the perception of the H silk scarf has changed over the years (from the 1950's to today); its status as a signifier isn't necessarily what it used to be. I happen to adore Christine Lagarde's style, but is there anyone under 40 who is widely recognized in a favorable context, and who's signature style includes an H scarf? This is probably just a kernel of an even larger conversation about the nature of fashion and style in the 21st century, but that's a broader topic
Please chat about TRR and specific resellers for anecdotes and advice here
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/discuss-hermes-resale-ebay-sellers.643531/page-504
For UK residents prices have gone up if buying from abroad, not that I've been a big secondhand buyer but anything over current retail has always been dismissed by me.
Generally, there are far more options buying preoved online and in B&M stores globally, even dept stores who ccouldn't be bothered with the sell under 'vintage' are cashing in on the so-called sustainability ticket now (hello Harvey Nics) but I also think there have been too many 'resellers' gambling and scooping up new could-be popular scarves with an eye on our seasonal scarf threads, hoping to make a killing. All in all there's just a lot of scarves around.
I'm pretty sure H reprints popular scarves now, they've certainly split new season's timings by staggering design releases, annoying for those who can only make fewer trips to H but also means a steadier flow of new scarves.
I also think there are many people like me who've been buying for a decade and have very few gaps in their scarf wardrobe.
Recently, I know H has been very keen to expand their silk sales even more . I'd love to know what their actual numbers produced/sold have been historically per decade. My guess is there have never been so many as now. Scarves may not be as popular as they were in their 1950s heyday but H scarves are more easily available to more people.
As for older designs, I think some hold their interest (hence value) more than others. I still have a few HGs from long before I started collecting new.
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/discuss-hermes-resale-ebay-sellers.643531/page-504
For UK residents prices have gone up if buying from abroad, not that I've been a big secondhand buyer but anything over current retail has always been dismissed by me.
Generally, there are far more options buying preoved online and in B&M stores globally, even dept stores who ccouldn't be bothered with the sell under 'vintage' are cashing in on the so-called sustainability ticket now (hello Harvey Nics) but I also think there have been too many 'resellers' gambling and scooping up new could-be popular scarves with an eye on our seasonal scarf threads, hoping to make a killing. All in all there's just a lot of scarves around.
I'm pretty sure H reprints popular scarves now, they've certainly split new season's timings by staggering design releases, annoying for those who can only make fewer trips to H but also means a steadier flow of new scarves.
I also think there are many people like me who've been buying for a decade and have very few gaps in their scarf wardrobe.
Recently, I know H has been very keen to expand their silk sales even more . I'd love to know what their actual numbers produced/sold have been historically per decade. My guess is there have never been so many as now. Scarves may not be as popular as they were in their 1950s heyday but H scarves are more easily available to more people.
As for older designs, I think some hold their interest (hence value) more than others. I still have a few HGs from long before I started collecting new.
I know many have stated the secondary market is fraught with fakes, but I have a list a mile long of designs that I wasn’t alive or old enough to buy when they came out. I will always look to the secondary market and will hope that I can get help from authenticators.
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Finally, I suspect there's a larger issue at work with how the perception of the H silk scarf has changed over the years (from the 1950's to today); its status as a signifier isn't necessarily what it used to be. I happen to adore Christine Lagarde's style, but is there anyone under 40 who is widely recognized in a favorable context, and who's signature style includes an H scarf? This is probably just a kernel of an even larger conversation about the nature of fashion and style in the 21st century, but that's a broader topic
It is a broad topic...and I for one am OK with scarves being seen as older. I am long past tired of fashionableness being measured by youth. I think we (older than 40, or any really) ladies just have to take it by the horns and run with it, unapologetically. I know I am way too many years past caring what people think.
Maybe there are *too* many designs every season made? I know I feel torn left and right between things and it makes it really hard to choose anything when that happens. Or by the time I do, it's another season and then when I finally have enough info about what I like, I'm back to hunting second hand (often for years before I find it...)
Allow me to reply because I want to have the opportunity to say something positive! Hermes deserves to be successful in expanding their sales of scarves because they have invested so heavily in new artists, new design directions (not so many empty corners), user-friendly ‘colour families’ and a fantastic scarf design competition. I also imagine that behind the scenes they are also investing heavily in securing the ongoing supply of premium silk. These reasons - especially their investment in young and emerging artists - are why I buy scarves. For as long as the brand can keep up this level of design integrity I will continue to purchase.
If you look at Nordstrom Rack's web site, and that of Nordstrom as well, most of the scarves are long, drapey, cashmere, viscose and rayon, rough edges--or tassels, very casual-looking, many in bandana prints. There are very few square silk scarves. Even fewer than there were a year ago. The only mainstream designer with a few offerings like that is Gucci. It would seem that for the moment Hermes is in a class by itself. Even Ferragamo appears to have mostly given up on making square silk twill scarves with intricate designs. Surely the pendulum will swing back in time. But for the moment it would seem that fashion-wise square silk twill is suffering a bit of a slump.
Alice Shirley seems to be releasing regularly, and everyone's loving this season’s scarf. (Last season's not so much.) Also I see the special issue of Grr! as getting the design out into the hands of collectors who hadn't noticed the original and then loved Awooooo and Argh! (I only own Awooooo and so I don't know how many extra letters the others have
)And Gattoni seems to be on hold for Bajtlik right now. I would imagine there's only so much room for "completely whimsical" per season, especially as other scarves are pretty whimsical - Parisiennes and Maison reissues, Patisserie and Faubourg Rainbow...
Speaking of Patisserie, Pierre Marie seems to have a pretty consistent output too, of charming but not breakout-hit scarves. Does he also sign his scarves as Pierre-Marie Agin? In which case he's been designing for a pretty long time.
Alice Shirley seems to be releasing regularly, and everyone's loving this season’s scarf. (Last season's not so much.) Also I see the special issue of Grr! as getting the design out into the hands of collectors who hadn't noticed the original and then loved Awooooo and Argh! (I only own Awooooo and so I don't know how many extra letters the others have
And Gattoni seems to be on hold for Bajtlik right now. I would imagine there's only so much room for "completely whimsical" per season, especially as other scarves are pretty whimsical - Parisiennes and Maison reissues, Patisserie and Faubourg Rainbow...
Speaking of Patisserie, Pierre Marie seems to have a pretty consistent output too, of charming but not breakout-hit scarves. Does he also sign his scarves as Pierre-Marie Agin? In which case he's been designing for a pretty long time.
Oh, to follow up, you mentioned Dimitri R. He has a men's scarf (High Flyer) that I'm surprised no one's really talked about in the F/W thread. Has it not hit stores yet, or is it too niche? I still see Last Night on the website, so maybe it's not as popular in the real world as in TPF.
But no women's scarves for a while, right?
Always five repetitive letters with the mens silks for Alice Shirley it seems.Alice Shirley seems to be releasing regularly, and everyone's loving this season’s scarf. (Last season's not so much.) Also I see the special issue of Grr! as getting the design out into the hands of collectors who hadn't noticed the original and then loved Awooooo and Argh! (I only own Awooooo and so I don't know how many extra letters the others have
I guess I'm more instinctual on first impressions of new season, all else fades into a misty background. Once I've bagged the 'must haves' (if they're as good on me as hoped for) I can browse and check out the slow-growers that often prove to be best, everyday friends. Hands up I'm much slower this season, even my 'must-haves' are low on my priorities in life ATM.
It was my own rules that took me to the secondhand market for missed scarves. I only allowed myself 2 scarves per season and most definitely only 2 CWs per design. HGs of specific CWs in sought-after designs (newly termed Hyper-Popular, silk currency) is a bit like chasing rainbows. Luck and speed of equal importance. I haven't been that sensible/stupid for around 5 years.
Agree there are grails and grails"Grail' is such a personal thing unless you're talking about serious collector grails as @marietouchet mentioned, and I agree with her, that's another category entirely. I suspect most of us have our lists of designs/cws we missed the first go around, or something ignored then and coveted now, and the lists probably include designs like Turandot (mine does
I haven't seen any definitive numbers that would lead me to conclude there's a true slump, but the anecdotal evidence suggests that many longer time collectors have bulging scarf drawers and no real inclination to add to the piles unless it's for something beyond incredible, to satisfy a whim, to fill a cw hole, or some similarly strong impetus. I think it also matters whether you think the season's offerings have hit a sweet spot for you, otherwise...meh.
Finally, I suspect there's a larger issue at work with how the perception of the H silk scarf has changed over the years (from the 1950's to today); its status as a signifier isn't necessarily what it used to be. I happen to adore Christine Lagarde's style, but is there anyone under 40 who is widely recognized in a favorable context, and who's signature style includes an H scarf? This is probably just a kernel of an even larger conversation about the nature of fashion and style in the 21st century, but that's a broader topic
My vision of grails is profoundly influenced (warped lol) by the interminable succession of $800 90cm (ie the silly price category) that were submitted for authentication, but just maybe being exposed on the authentication thread is enough to catapult designs into people's minds
Not that the authentication thread is the only scarf thread but it only presents 2-3 scarves a day max
I think people see a lot on the SOTD thread - many,many posts to wade through, I miss a lot there due to not being able to keep up
Again, as I said my view is influenced (hmmm) by the authentication thread - a (very) narrow point of view